The factory ECU thread:

Discuss topics related to the VH41DE, VH45DE, VK45DE, and VK56DE engines.
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qsiguy
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Car: 1994 Infiniti Q45 Turbo

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Hey Kyle. He's talking about the Moates Ostrich. All of the things we are discussing on this thread only apply to the older Q45's or more specifically the VH45DE ecu. This applies to about 1990-1995 year models. Your M45 is OBD II and I have no idea what is available for it, if anything. Sorry.

Darkhalf, Once I got the socket booster I haven't had any more trouble with the Ostrich. Has anyone reported the "bug" with the new Ostrich to Moates? I'd hate to keep recommending it if it doesn't work.


all4bspinnin
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Ok, so ive read this thread and the few others out there but i still do not understand what all is needed to effectively tune the VH45DE motor...

Im used to reflashing via the obd2 port and this, like qsi said, looks to use reverse engineering...

So let me ask this...

If i was to swap in a VH45 into my s14, what is the basic list software/hardware i would need and how would it work?

I know qsi made a list in post 2 or 3 of what he uses but i don't understand how it works.

Anyone want to give me a basic rundown using tunerpro to tune this motor?

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qsiguy
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Car: 1994 Infiniti Q45 Turbo

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1) OEM ECU Harness wired to VH45DE as per OEM spec

2) OEM ECU, I prefer the 90-93 models as they are 8 bit and simpler to modify.

3) Remove the OEM 28 pin EPROM chip and install a 28 pin DIP socket

4) Acquire a suitable EPROM chip such as the 27SF512 by SST which unfortunately has been discontinued but can be found on e-bay and through various vendors. An adapter board can be made to accept a 32 pin PLCC chip but it's a little involved.

5) Acquire an EPROM burner such as the Moates Burn1 and download their "Flash N Burn" software for it.

6) Download Tunerpro software which is free. This is used for editing the BIN or program that is loaded onto the EPROM.

7) Download the XDF file for the VH45DE ECU. This is a file that tells Tunerpro what hex addresses do what in the VH45DE BIN file. Without the correct one you will have no idea what addresses do what. For example address 7FB4 is the value for the rev limiter.

8) Extract the OEM BIN from your OEM EPROM if you were able to remove it from your ECU in one piece. It takes some patience and good soldering skills. You can edit this BIN using Tunerpro and alter pretty much any parameter you wish such as the fuel and timing maps, injector K value, latency, rev limiters, speed limiter, etc. You can also find BINs that others have already done some tuning to but I found that it was better to start with the OEM map and go from there. Comparing the OEM BIN to some of the altered BINs you find is good for learning tho.

9) It is wise to also acquire a consult adapter which allows you to plug in to the OBDI port and do datalogging. A good free datalogger is ECUTalk. I also have Nissan Data Scan which is also very good and has a map trace function which is extremely helpful for tuning. You can also use the consult to "dump" your existing BIN from your OEM ECU prior to modifying it. There are several companies selling decent consult adapters. ECUTalk has a really cool one that also has an integrated display that mounts in the car. I have one and would highly recommend it.

10) The Moates Ostrich Emulator like I have is an alternative to the EPROM chip and allows for real time tuning on the fly.

That's it in a nutshell. Another alternative is to send your ECU to NisTune and pay their price and they will do pretty much all of the above and provide some pretty nice software. If I had the money I might have done that.

Does that help?

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Chrispy300
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qsiguy wrote:
deviousKA wrote:Are all Q45 8 bit ecu created equal? (hardware, board layout, daughterboard extensions?)Are all Q45 automatic?Does the California or any other version of the ecu use additional sensors (IAT, EGT? etc.)
I'm pretty sure all the 90-93 models are really similar but I can't really verify that. California models have some different emissions stuff but all others use the same bins as far as I know. None have IAT but all have EGT..
Semi-useless fact but the Japanese VH45's don't have the EGT sensor on the EGR. I've used a US VH ECU in my J-spec motor and it throws a error when it gets up to normal temp and throws up a warning light. I ended up stuffing that ECU with my ham fisted soldering skills, will investigate more when I get my new one from eBay.

I should think that it would be able to be bypassed with a resistor. Any idea on when the standard EGR temp would be? I'm guessing in the area of 500-800 deg C? The resistance values are given in the US-spec FSM.

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dsagers
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I'm responding to move this topic back to the top, as I hope the conversation will continue.

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qsiguy
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Quite a bit's been covered. Any specifics you would like to discuss?

I will likely do a little research on the EGT as I've been curious about it for a bit anyway. I'd like to tie into it and wire to a gauge as well as my wideband analyzer system which has an input for an EGT. I'm just not sure if it is a compatible sensor. I'll post more on the EGT when I get some data collected.

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Carl H
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egt is very helpful along side of a dyno for determining proper timing for the engine.

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dsagers
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qsiguy wrote:Quite a bit's been covered. Any specifics you would like to discuss?

I will likely do a little research on the EGT as I've been curious about it for a bit anyway. I'd like to tie into it and wire to a gauge as well as my wide-band analyzer system which has an input for an EGT. I'm just not sure if it is a compatible sensor. I'll post more on the EGT when I get some data collected.
I'm certain that the factory O2 sensor will not feed your wide-band analyzer the info it needs. I remember reading about a method of using a wide-band O2 sensor connected to a wide-band gauge, that had a narrow band output signal for the older ECUs. Saves the cost of running two different types of O2 sensors, but that wide-band stuff is not cheap to buy.

jalinar450
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Sorry this is a little off topic but i need my vh45 ecu ROM tuned anyone interested? PM me

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Carl H
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I offer ecu tuning...pm or email me in my profile for quickest response.

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qsiguy
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dsagers wrote:I'm certain that the factory O2 sensor will not feed your wide-band analyzer the info it needs. I remember reading about a method of using a wide-band O2 sensor connected to a wide-band gauge, that had a narrow band output signal for the older ECUs. Saves the cost of running two different types of O2 sensors, but that wide-band stuff is not cheap to buy.
I'm not wiring the OEM O2 sensor to work as a wideband. I have a Zeitronics wideband setup that connects to a laptop. It also has an input for EGT which I was curious if it would work the OEM EGT sensor. Haven't gotten around to trying it yet...hasn't been a priority.

Oh, and I also can help you with a retune on your VH45 OEM ECU if you have not already gotten that taken care of Jalinar450.

Shane

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hannibal
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This stuff is starting to click. A few questions though.

Going by qsiguy's list (which is really helpful BTW)... everyone needs #1-3.

You need 4 and 5 only if youre gonna burn and replace chips.

#7. is this similar to the adr file mentioned earlier? Makes sense that any software you choose will need to know where certain data is written. I'm guessing the XDF file is just tunerpro's address file?

#10. if you dont wanna burn and replace EPROMs, replace #4 and 5 with an emulator.

More questions...
Is a socketed ECU a one way deal? You can write to the chip (or send data with an emulaor) but you cant read any data. To read data you need software (and cable) to read from the consult port. Now is there any software that can read from consult, edit bin files, and write to an ECU thru an emulator? I think this is what nistune does.

klh6686
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Car: '92 FB stock daily
'90 FB w/ RB20
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Hopefully someone sees this response to this thread and will reply, but I have both a 92 vh45 and a 95, I want to use the heads from the 95, but I need to use the 92 ecu if I want to run nistune on it. Has anyone ran a 95 harness w/ a 92 ecu?

Everything looks like it should work just fine, but I'm not sure about the differences between the coils on the 95 having built in ignitors and the 92 having the two external ignitors.

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Carl H
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the 90-95 harnesses are pin compatible...only difference is the 94+ harness has pins on the ecu plug for the ecu driven cooling fans.

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qsiguy
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Must have missed this post as I'm late replying...

If you don't do 4 & 5 you will have to use an emulator as you have to have one or the other. You could purchase just a pre-programmed chip I supposed and then you would not have to have your own chips and a burner.

#7: Yes, the XDF file is the same as an ADR but for Tunerpro.

#10: Emulator, if used, replaces the EPROM chip and can be tuned from the drivers seat with your laptop while the car is running (don't recommend altering while under a load).

"Socketed" just means you've removed the OEM EPROM and installed a socket to allow swapping of chips or an emulator. Chips are one way, and emulator is one way. To do two way like Nistune, you can run Tunerpro w/an emulator installed and a consult program like Nissan Data Scan or ECU Talk simultaneously. This will do essentially the same thing as Nistune although not quite as streamlined and much less expensive.

Hope this helps.

Shane

hannibal wrote:....#7. is this similar to the adr file mentioned earlier? Makes sense that any software you choose will need to know where certain data is written. I'm guessing the XDF file is just tunerpro's address file?

#10. if you dont wanna burn and replace EPROMs, replace #4 and 5 with an emulator.

More questions...
Is a socketed ECU a one way deal? You can write to the chip (or send data with an emulaor) but you cant read any data. To read data you need software (and cable) to read from the consult port. Now is there any software that can read from consult, edit bin files, and write to an ECU thru an emulator? I think this is what nistune does.

hotlavaflow
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Anyone have an ecu pinout diagram for the VH45DE? I have a 91.

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liteemup39496
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im reviving this thread, id love to hear from deviouska, were you able to get the code patch to allow the vh to run on an nvsram board?

alsoare there any changes needed to run an 8bit ecu in place of 16bit? or is it plug and play

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qsiguy
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Plug and play.

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liteemup39496
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well im building 2 nvsram boards one for my buddies sohc ka and, would love to find out if devious ever got the vh45 code patched. this would be a serious step as ive seen a huge surge in vh swaps within the last year.

i know myself coming on the last steps before my swap becomes running and drivable would love the option to have realtime adjustments

anyone have deviouska's email? maybe someone or myself can reach out to him. hell i would gladly chip in on cost to bring back eccs-tech or hybrid ka

zed32gto
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Maybe I missed it but...

What are the practical differences between the 8bit and 16bit VH ECU?

I spent some time playing with the commonly available bin/xdf files for both ECUs and there appears to be no difference in resolution - 400 rpm increments. Can this be changed?

If it can be changed does anyone have a pre-made transform/program to fill in the blanks using the existing maps? That might be a decent starting point to automate a bit of the data flesh out.

The maps all seem to terminate at 6400 rpm... is this correct? What happens above 6400 rpm? OEM redline is higher, no? Last value repeated?

Also, can these ECUs deal with higher RPMs than factory redline? Certain I saw it could but... Does this platform have the ECU speed (Hz) to deal with 8000+ RPM? 8bit vs 16bit? I figure under 8500 rpm is a practical limit for tuned/massaged, road going VH45DE but if others know better...

Sorry if these are newb questions. I've never tuned an ECU before, just helped a buddy with his Hondata'ed S2000. I didn't see this addressed in the thread and the amount of tuning info out there for this platform on Google is spotty.


Thanks!

zed32gto
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This answered a lot of my questions.

http://cherrypicker.tripod.com/id10.html

It appears high RPM is not an issue so I don't care about the technical details. :)

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qsiguy
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If you are speaking in terms of modifying the 8 bit vs the 16 bit ECU the difference is huge. The 16 bit requires dual EPROM chips, a daughter board and some tricky chip burning. I have found no benefit in doing the 16 bit due to the cost and labor involved. I've re-chipped close to 100 8-bit ECU's and I think a large portion of those were used in 94+ cars that pulled out the 16 bit ECU.

I've made changes to the rev limiter but never over 8500 or so, so not sure how it will work if you try to exceed that. I've not heard of any issue at a high RPM level.

zed32gto
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Thanks for responding - much appreciated.

With regard to swapping ECUs from 16bit to 8bit is it plug and play or is there connector re-pinning required? <Sorry if I missed it - just re-read the thread and may have glanced over>

zed32gto
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The context of my question is that when I buy a donor car for the swap I want to get the later heads but that'll include the 16bit ECU. If it's just a bit of wiring monkeying around it's not a big deal to sort out but if there is more to it I'll consider other options.

Thx

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qsiguy
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Plug and play, no mods required.

zed32gto
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Awesome, thanks.

The more I read about the VH45DE powered Q45 the more I want one for it's own merits. May have to look for a low km, rust free one too.

gemman69
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I have a 2005 Xterra that threw codes P1122, P1126, P0507, C1131, C1163. I replaced the the throttle body replaced, had ECM reconditioned, and I did the 3 relearns (Accelerator Pedal Released Position, Throttle Valve Closed position, Idle Air Volume Learning). Car ran fine. Restarted it a few times running errands. Replaced the battery. After battery change had to do the 3 relearns again. Ran fine. Start stop ran more errands. Sat over night. Ran fine 2 x on a round trip. Sat for few hours, now it gets interesting
1) radio presets were not lost
2) started up in limp mode - did the relearns again, and it ran fine.

Now, I have an intermittent problem. Why does the relearn get lost? What needs fixed?

wyoung369
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Is it possible for anyone to tell me the total ignition timing programmed into the vh45. I know initial timing is 15 degrees. I'm doing a standalone ecu and need a starting point


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