Texdrifter,

All of the posts & pictures I have on this thread already show what all I did and how I went about it, so I don't really care to go back and spend alot of time rewriting a step by step process (I think it is pretty clear what all I did!). Making up all the idler bracketry was the most time consuming since I had to make a bunch of mock-ups with cardboard in order to zero in on just how to get it all to fit. What I did is NOT planned to be a kit for sell to anyone (Thomas Knight already has something similar to my setup available for about $3000 for a 240SX application, but he doesn't have a kit for the Frontier variant of the KA24de which is why I did it for myself...that and it was WAY cheaper doing it myself to the tune of only $1000 total), rather it was only a one-off supercharger conversion for myself. I will be more than happy to mark-up a templete of all the bracketry & SC mounting plate on cardboard for those that want to fab up their own SC conversion, but remember that this setup is really only for the Frontier KA24de variant and a 240SX version will be slightly different (though similar in that the lower idler/alternator support bracket and SC mount plate would be basically the same, but the upper idler support plate and the Z bracket that the lower idler support plate bolts to would NOT work on a 240SX engine). Since the power steering pump is located on the opposite side on a 240SX KA24de, then a different idler support bracket would be required on the passenger side of the engine (a Frontier power steering bracket with plate bolted onto the front of it to support an idler pulley would work good for retrofit onto a 240SX head in my opinion, though some spacers will be required to get it all to fit just right!).

Bonestock,

Since you have a Frontier, all of my bracketry will work just fine on your conversion (but you will have to make them yourself from my templates!). It might be more precise if I were to use my actual steel brackets to mark the outline & drill all the required holes on a 1/4" piece of plywood for the brackets and a 1/2" piece of plywood for the SC mount plate rather than on cardboard, but I would have to charge a small nominal fee to do that for the time & plywood cost involved (around $50 or so total...you might want to consider that since it will save you a ton of time in the longrun!)

can someone tell me what the hole in the rear of this unit is for?

also any thought on adapting an a/c compressor type clutch to the drive pulley.

That hole is for the air inlet that is downstream of the throttle body. I plan to build a 90 degree elbow with the throttle body mounted on top of it so that the throttle body is either pointing straight up, or forward at a 45 degree angle in relation to the blower case depending on which way fits best into my Nissan 720 truck.

Why would you want to adapt an AC clutch to the drive pulley when this type of supercharger has a built-in recirculation valve that causes the SC'er to cruise with no boost made? There is no reason to shut down the blower drive sice less than 1/3 of a hp is used to spin the rotors in the SC'er when off boost!

Once you have this all up and running do you have any plans to slap a turbo on aswell, go for the whole twincharger thing?

most of this was over my head, but dayum you is the man.

I smell custom title for this. Keep up the amazing work mang.

im gonna have to agree with breadbox.

how about a air to liquid intercooler sandwiched between the s/c and the end of the stock upper mani half. i was thinking maybe 2" thick core. something would be better than nothing if it worked.

i bought a xterra s/c and am awaiting its arrival. this will be going into a s13 when i get around to it. both the alternator and p/s pump will be relocated to more accomodating areas to facilitate the best belt routing.

Eddiec,

There is NO extra space available to sandwitch an air to liquid intercooler in between the SC & the upper manifold. The absolutely thickest adapter plate that will fit in between is 3/4" before the SC hits the alternator and the oil filter adapter. It is advisable to stick with a max thickness of 1/2" for the SC adapter plate in order to maintain enough clearance to those items (I even used a remote spin-on oil filter adapter to gain about an extra 1/8" clearance on my installation). Also, even if the alternator were to be relocated to another location, you still can't lower the SC away from the upper intake via anything sandwitched in between by any more than about 1" before the recirculation valve actuator runs into the starter so it is futile to attempt to use an air to liquid intercooler sandwitched in between, and it is also a waste of time & effort to relocate the alternator to any other position. The only possible way to add an intercooler into the system would be to cut the upper manifold at the high point of the runners and weld a custom double plenum setup onto it that diverts the air coming out of the SC forward by the lower plenum so that piping could be routed from it to a front mount air to air intercooler, and then the cooled return air brought back into the upper plenum which feeds into the shortened runners on the modified upper manifold. That is the only way I can see where it would be possible to get an intercooler to fit into the system, but of course that would require ALOT of additional fab work & cost to achieve!!

For the S13 conversion the power steering pump can remain completely functional in its stock location on the drivers side of the engine and serve as an idler pulley for the SC drive belt (as long as you retrofit an Altima 6 groove serpentine power steering pump pulley onto it). Of course this is all based on using a custom bolt-on 6 groove SC crank drive pulley that replaces the stock bolt-on 3 groove power steering crank drive pulley, and also adding a Frontier power steering bracket onto your S13 engine on the passenger side so that you can attach a custom mounting plate onto it in order to support the adjustable tensioner SC pulley that is required. You will also need to add a lower custom support plate with idler pulley (that doubles for support of the alternator) just like I did as shown in my pictures. Your stock alternator/water pump drive belt and AC drive belt setup will remain just as it came from the factory OEM.

And Chaotic_Warlord,

NO, I don't ever plan to twincharge this thing. That would just add greater complexity to an already time consuming conversion that would most likely cause the ultimate demise of this KA24deR engine when it blows-up due to too much boost!! Ha

I am only looking for a modest 70 hp gain (or 45% increase over stock) with no more than about 7 psi boost in order to avoid the need for an intercooler and also to keep the engine as reliable and long lasting as possible! This kind of power gain will also avoid the need for any expensive internal modifications & upgrades to the engine itself.
Modified by tloof at 10:50 AM 1/9/2007

taloof

I live 6000 ft above sea level (12.14 psi) and that means my Nissan Hardbody KA24DE(Fontier) is already under performing by the loss of 2.56 psi. When I am at sea level there is a notable performance change. So if I am able to correct this by boosting in axcess of 3 psi then I will be overjoyed. If i can get in access of 6psi then I would really really be overjoyed. Your supercharger project definitely seems to be the way to go, at least for my application and I wish to set this up in my garage and get going with it

I would like to get a copy of your templates and any other advice or instructions not already in this forum and would gladly pay you for it. Pease let me know if you are still open to this as previously suggested.

hey gouys just a newb was reading and saw you were interested in intercooling your setup well this is my setup can be done easily and is on its way to being done

240cp wrote:hey gouys just a newb was reading and saw you were interested in intercooling your setup well this is my setup can be done easily and is on its way to being done

you got our attention... but what the hell's going on there?

Hey 240cp,

Your posted picture basically shows the idea I put forth on how to add an intercooler within the system, but are those ITB's that are mounted in between the cut runners and the new plenum? If so, I should point out that normally on supercharged setups the throttle body is located on the inlet side of the supercharger itself, and not downstream of it on the high pressure side (typically the throttle body is only placed on the high pressure side on turbo applications). The reason for this is that a SC'er setup has a recirculation valve on it vs a blow-off valve on turbo systems, so it is better to locate the throttle body on the low pressure side of the SC'er.

Also, I don't see how you plan to support the blower case itself with the way you have it located. To start off with the upper plenum section is restrained by rubber couplings to the manifold runners, so trying to attach the blower to the plenum/ITB section won't work well due to the flexible connections to the main runner section. In addition some sort of special support bracket attaching to the engine block itself will be required to support the weight of the SC'er, and I don't see where you have done that? When I did my installation I found that there is only one good support boss location on the block that is available, and that is the spot where the stock intake manifold plenum support bracket bolted to, which will only provide support of the blower case near its center (at least another support point up front will be required to prevent the drive belt from pulling the snout of the blower towards the engine block from what I can see on your installation).

Personally, I think that the upper plenum should be welded directly onto the cut runners of the 240sx upper intake (without any ITB's sandwitched in between), and then a second plenum welded onto the flat plate that bolts up to the Frontier M62 blower. Then the two plenums can be attached to each other via some weded tabs on one of the plenums that enables the other plenum to be bolted up solid to the other. This will give the needed support to hold the blower case solidly in place, and in addition a single lower support made to triangulate the entire assembly to the engine block itself (using the old intake manifold plenum support bracket boss on the block).

Another issue is how you plan to pipe out the pressurized air flow from the blower to an intercooler? There doesn't seem to be enough room to come out forward beteen the upper intake and the flat plate you have bolted on the SC'er case and still clear the coolant outlet on the manifold!

Just my 2 cents!

P.S.: This whole idea of an intercooler in the system is only worthwhile if you are planning to make more boost than about 8 psig, if not then I wouldn't waste time doing it!

Anacarte,

Yeah I can make up some templates to help you in your SC'er conversion. I made my brackets out of cheap 1/4" plate steel, and welded a few spacers and such on to them to get them to fit perfectly (you will need to do the same). The 1/2" aluminum adapter plate for mounting the blower to the 240sx upper intake can also be made cheaply by buying a 1/2" x 16 5/8" cast aluminum tool & jig plate disc (this is a leftover alum disc cutout that comes from an industrial application that has 2 holes drilled in it) for the low cost of only $17.40 from the following web site: http://www.sandsmachine.com/alumweb.htm This alum plate is just large enough to lay the template over and still get a full sized blower adapter within its 16 5/8" diameter.

By the way, where are you located...is that Johannesburg South Africa?

tloof

Yes, I am in Johannesburg South Africa

It looks like I am going have to try mount the SC on the right hand side of the engine somwhere as I dont have much space on the left.My steering column is in the way (we are right hand drivers here)

Anyway, I need to source the SC first. I am going to try get the M62 Eaton which I understand is the same as the Frontier/Xterra. I dont know if the Nissan version has any unique features, but I understand the M62 off the 230 SLK mercs is the same except that it has an electronic clutch pulley which may or may not be a good Idea - Do you have any thoughts on this ? I dont really understand yet how the SC on the Frontier goes off boost - so the electronic clutch pulley seems to make sense

Ancarte,

I think you meant to say that you need to locate the blower on the left side of the engine because your Frontier truck is a right hand drive version that limits clearance on the right side? Anyway, that will be extremely difficult to do since there is no room to fit the blower above the exhaust manifold (plus it would get really hot in that location because of the exhaust manifold temperature). Also, even if you could my idler bracketry setup will NOT work for the blower on that side, so the templates for both the bracketry & blower mount plate are of no use to you! My setup mounts the blower directly to the underside of the 240sx upper intake manifold and no other place!

By the way, the Frontier version M62 Eaton is in no way the same as the Mercedes M62...the cases on the two are totally different. The Frontier version has a built-in recirculation valve and 90 degree inlet flange on the case along with a built-in plenum section vs no recirculation valve and rear entry inlet port and no plenum space within the case on the Mercedes version. It is those very features of the Frontier case that makes it easy to retrofit onto the 240sx upper intake manifold; whereas, the Mercedes version would only complicate the installation in every way! Also, the Frontier's built-in recirculation valve negates the need for a magnetic clutch since it allows the intake flow to bypass the blower when in cruise mode so that no boost is made and thus the vehicle gets the same fuel economy as a n/a engine (the Mercedes setup requires that air be drawn thru the blower rotors themselves when the magnetic clutch is deactivated which creates a pressure loss when done so...not the greatest setup in my opinion).

Personally, I don't see how you are going to get the Frontier SC'er to fit on your right hand drive vehicle...but good luck to you anyway!!!

tloof

yeah, you were right about which is left and which is right

Are you saying the Frontier SC can only be installed on the intake manifold. Does this have something to do with the way the special nissan feature you reffered to " built-in recirculation valve and 90 degree inlet flange on the case along with a built-in plenum section"

I was hoping (if I can find space and isolate the exhaust heat) to install the Frontier S/C on the left hand side and extend the outlet of the SC over the top of the engine somewhere, and then into the inlet of carb where the airfilter outlet is attached to . I dont know if that sounds dumb, but I would appreciate some more info on just how this Frontier SC works in terms of positioning.

If you check this link out , this guy has carried a similar install but using a M90 then a M62 from a merc on TR6 Triumph. I was hoping to do the same but using the Frontier SC http://topshamautoparts.com/tr6/schrgr. ... chrgr2.htm

What I am saying is that the layout of the Frontier M62 SC'er lends itself best to the mounting position under a 240sx's upper intake because it has internal plenum volume (which makes it possible to use a flat 1/2" thick plate to mount it directly to the intake manifold which then also serves for support of the blower's case), has a built-in recirculation valve (which eliminates the complexity of having to mount a remote recirc valve and all the plumbing nightmare associated, or adding a blow-off valve when no recirc valve is used such as is required on the Mercedes M62 installations in order to eliminate pressure spikes that blow off the connecting air tubing), and it has a 90 degree (in relation to the centerline of the blower case) inlet port (which makes it easier to route an inlet duct with throttle body on it in order to clear the firewall in a RWD application).

Can it be used sitting over the exhaust manifold instead? Yes, but that will then complicate the whole installation since you will have to fabricate some sort of special mounting supports and all of the additional air tubing to go to an intercooler. Of course the intercooler will allow you to run more boost, but in reality it is best to limit the boost to no more than 7 psig for street use to keep the whole setup reliable (at that boost pressure an intercooler is not really neccessary and only adds expense to the whole conversion). If the Frontier M62 were to be mounted on the drivers side of the engine then it would be better to mount it right side up so that the inlet port is on the left side of the blower so that it is simpler to run an air duct to. Then an outlet tube welded to a flat plate that is bolted to the bottom side of the blower would come out from underneith the blower case (similar to the TR6 setup that you gave a link to) and turn forward to go to an intercooler. Also, all of the idler bracketry for the drive belt would be entirely different from my setup and would have to be scienced out by you (a very time consuming job) for location on the drivers side of the engine! Good luck!!

By the way, I thought you said you have a Frontier truck? Don't they all come as port fuel injected engines, or does Nissan make a carbureted version for South Africa? Anyway, you don't really want to mess with SC'ing a carbureted verion engine, because the carb would have to be enclosed in a pressurized box to even begin to function, and even then they are tough to get them to maintain a proper fuel/air ratio under pressure!!

Just my 2 cents on this subject!

tloof

Thanks for your input.I was using the incorrect terminolgy, as this vehicle is a fuel injected.

Anyway, I think I have plenty space to play with, so I am going to go ahead with this project. I am also going to target a max pf 7 psi as suggested to keep things simple

In the meantime ( as a matter of interest) I will get some photos up in the next few days of the engine bay.

this is 240cp the way i mounted the sc'er. the stock lower manifold had two brackets mounted to the block one has a single mount and the other had two i took the single and put it where the double was which is about in the middle of the block got the sc'er level and square to my alternater pulley and then fabbed to mounts one to the block where pcv bolt is and then another that comes up off the sc'er then back up to the top of the cut mani it is very sturdy and is in line very well belt tracks great i put my idler pulley on end of alternater bracket i cut the jack bolt off and drilled a hole there and mounted my pulley there and as far as the itbs it was just a experiment didnt work well as you said i couldnt get enough vacuum to pull the recirc valve so they are coming out and putting my single throttle body back on the intake side of the sc'er and finally the output pipe to the intercooler comes out just under the water inlet its a tight fit but does work then from ther you can do pretty much what you like as far as routing it to the intercooler i chose a side mount rb20 intercooler cause i got it for next to nothing ive still got a few details to work out but thats all tuning as i have started the car and it done great. dizzy cap went out on me so i had to order one from the parts house be here tommorrow and i can keep going with the tuning also i couldnt get the throttle sensor on the itbs right so for now they are gone just gone couple the plenum straight to the manifold and this will give me better clearance as well

I think my eyes are bleeding.

need pics.

gonna have to forgive me for the long post not yet used to forums still just a newb. I got the car running again but itb's were still in so the bypass valve was not operating, it was boosting on idle. I am getting a plate built for my single throttle body in the next few days, so we'll see how it does then. pics coming soon

tloof how do plan on getting vacuum to activate your bypass valve when i had my itbs supercharger was always boosting. now that i have my single throttle body in the low pressure side or the intake side of the supercharger i cant get it to boost vacuum is screwed up i guess but everytime i give it gas the engine sucks the rubber couplings shut so that tells me i aint getting the supercharger out of vacuum so it aint boosting appreciate any help you can give thanks

Hey 240cp,

As long as the internal bypass valve diaphram lower hose is connected to the inlet port on the M62 SC case the way it comes from the factory then it should work OK. The top side hose connection should be left open to the atmosphere unless you plan to install a two-way solenoid valve that is controlled by an aftermarket controller so that high pressure air from the pressurized side of the blower can open the bypass valve when the solenoid valve is activated and thus stop the blower from boosting any higher (the other port of the two-way solenoid valve is to remain connected to an atmospheric pressure source in such an installation).

If your current setup isn't working and it is connected properly, then maybe the diaphram isn't any good in the bypass valve actuuator itself?

tloof

so you mean take the lower nipple on the bypass valve and route it to the intake side of supercharger via vac hose? and is that before or after the throttle body. breather side or supercharger side of the intake inlet of the supercharger? and i appreciate your help

ok sorry for the previous post i think i see what you were saying basically i need to leave the supercharger alone. just leave it like i got it cause it has a small line running from the bypass to the supercharger and that is how it interanally bypasses right? i ran a small vac hose from the other nipple on the bypass valve to the intake is that wrong is that why my bypass valve is always open?

tloof, i finally got my car runnig and it is running pretty good got the bypass valve operating properly i think? It idles properly and when i hit the gas the supercharger boosts, it takes a second but it does come on.my question is do you think it is normal that my couplings in the piping being sucked down to almost closed when the car is in vaccum aka idle, then when i give it gas it all comes back to pressure and normal, any insight on this would be greatly appreciated thanks

figured id post some pics <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k188/ ... etter5.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

tloof or 240sp - This article's caught the attention of some Altima owners, and I'm about to attempt to supercharge an Altima ka24de (go ahead and laugh, half the reason of doing it is to say "omg an Altima?"). Would you guys mind sending me drawings, CAD, anything I could go on in way of the brackets and intake work you guys have come up with? I'm still slowly reading over the previous 3 pages and taking notes, great info covered so far. If one or both of you wouldnt mind sending me that, I'd really appreciate it. I know this is for the Frontier, but it may help with 'a-ha' moments or lead to other misc forms of inspiration for our own project. All the parts are gathered, project starts in 3 weeks!

*edit: I bought the rear inlet GM style charger due to space constraints, TB location, etc in the tiny Altima engine bay. The shop I'm doing this with is well aware we have a nightmare ahead of us.

*double edit: Nevermind.. everything you have that we could adapt/translate into something usable is already posted here. Thanks for the info!
Modified by eclypse at 2:17 AM 2/24/2007

eclypse

my setup is actually on a 240sx 95 model, i think, me personally the gm model would be better on the front wheel drive altima and if you need any help i would be more than willing to help if i can. by the way do you plan on doing a plenum style like mine or just bolting to the manifold from the adapter plate like tloof. big ups for trying something new as well. but be warned there is alot of fab work involved with supercharging a ka