Supercharged KA24DE (Frontier Variant with 240SX Intake)

Information on the naturally-aspirated KA24E and KA24DE engines.
tloof
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Hey Hessianben,

The best upgrade for your Frontier KA24de engine (besides supercharging it) is to change out the cams to any of the '95-'98 S14 cams (they have a 232/232 combo that is better for a truck than the 240/248 combo that the '91-'94 S13 has) and retrofit the '96-'98 S14 intake manifold & remote MAF unit onto it. Note: this will require relocating the temp sensors onto the top side of the manifold coolant runner and cutting the back of the power steering pump mounting bracket off for clearance (it also requires fabrication of a complicated air inlet duct in order to clear everything since it gets really tight around the power steering pump and the S14 throttle body!) These mods will bring you up to about 155 hp from the stock Frontier rating of 143 hp. You will also have to change out to a '96-'98 S14 ECU (do not use a '95 S14 ECU because it isn't programmed to handle all the systems that the '98 up Frontier has) by relocating the pins from out of the Frontier ECU connector into an S14 ECU connector (this is so you can reuse the existing Frontier engine harness with only a few mods vs changing out to a S14 harness).

Yes, once you add the 240SX intake manifold then a 240SX turbo setup can be installed (though the intercoolers used on the 240SX won't fit on a Frontier truck, so you will have to find a different one that will). Personally I don't like turbos on street vehicles, especially on trucks since they are still generally used to haul heavy loads (a supercharger is way better for a truck because of the far greater low to mid range torque and 0 lag for boost!).

All of these mods are a bit of work though, and will require you to get a factory service manual for both the Frontier truck and a '96-'98 240SX so you will understand what needs to be done on both the mechanical changes and the wiring changes!!


hessianben
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Thanks tloof!That was exactly the info I was looking for! It will take me a little while to round up the parts, but I'll post results when everything's installed. (probably cam upgrade first) Thanks again!

This forum is a lifesaver!


tloof
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Hey Hardbody Silvia,

The costs on my supercharger conversion is as follows:

1) Used salvage core blower - $1002) Rebuild blower with new bearings & seals - $753) Aluminum adapter plate - $504) Custom drive crank pulley - $905) Scrap steel plate for idler pulley mount - $106) Steel idley pulley & bearing (salvage) - $107) 300ZX TT 370cc injectors (used) - $1008) JWT N/A ECU (used) - $3009) Reprogram of JWT ECU for boosted motor - $10010) Custom air inlet duct (made from exhaust tubing) - $40Total - $87511) Throw in another $200 if a new JWT ECU is used - $200Grand Total - $1075

All KA engines have the same bore & stroke (that includes the 240SX, Stanza, Altima, Hardbody,& Frontier) but the blocks are all different from each other.

OD gears are NOT interchangable between the manual & automatic transmissions!

The reason your 240SX cruises on the highway better is because it has a 4.08 rear gear with short 24" tall tires vs the tall tires you have with a 3.9 rear gear (you would need an effective rear gear of around 4.375 to match it and a way better OD ratio to get the same fuel economy). Also the 240SX weighs about 900 lbs lighter, so it is way easier for a KA to pull!!

I don't think the V6 versions have a different transfer case gear ratio, but they do have different tranny gear ratios (and a totally different tranny as well compared to what is behind the 4 cyl KA).

If you really want a good power boost, then go with the supercharger!

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scruffy63
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Hey XERO you said you could make a crank pulley easily I can get a spare from a friend if you need the dimensions. You are thinking more along the lines of what i'm thinking. I don't have ac either and I don't plan on getting it.(i haven't had it for years and i'm still alive.) I'll give you my cell so we can chat if you want.

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corey240
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will you make me a cardboard template of the plate:D

tloof
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Yeah I could do that, but keep in mind that my SC plate is for use with a custom 6 groove bolt-on crank dampener pulley that goes in place of the power steering drive pulley, and it is also for a Frontier KA24de variant not a 240SX version.

You will also have to make several custom idler pulley support plates for either of the Frontier or 240SX variants of the KA24de, but the idler pulley support plates will be different between the two versions (I have not made brackets for the 240SX version, only the Frontier truck version). The lower idler support bracket I made would also work on a 240SX, but a different timing cover mount bracket is required to attach it to the engine (it is a Z bracket that the timing cover bolts go thru on one flange, and a single bolt and idler pulley bolt goes thru on the other flange in order to support the idler plate...but the height of that Z bracket is different between the two KA24de versions). Unfortunately the upper idler support plate would be entirely different on a 240SX version, so you are basically on your own to figure all that out! (I do have a few ideas about the best way to go though for the upper idler pulley support plate if you want to know).


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Xero
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p
scruffy63 wrote:Hey XERO you said you could make a crank pulley easily I can get a spare from a friend if you need the dimensions. You are thinking more along the lines of what i'm thinking. I don't have ac either and I don't plan on getting it.(i haven't had it for years and i'm still alive.) I'll give you my cell so we can chat if you want.
project is gonna be on the back burner for a while, my Rabbit is dieing, and I need to get its new motor in. I have a blower sitting in my garage, but I don't even know where it's gonna go right now. Sorry bro.

BiohazardKingKobra
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Hey Tloof,

Can this SC kit be used on a 1986 hardbody w/ cyl. head change, and ecu change, etc. i have Electro- Injection

tloof
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Biohazard,

No, my SC bracketry & mounting plate are only designed for use on the KA24e/de series engines that have a 240SX head & intake manifold retrofitted on to them (the Frontier KA24de already has a 240SX version head, so only the manifold has to be changed out).

The '86 Hardbody you have has a Z24i engine in it that really won't work well for a SC'ed conversion (while it is true that the KA24de head will bolt on to it, unfortunately the Ka's timing cover won't, which prevents proper mateup with the KAde head...also the water passages are in a different location in the Kade head vs the Z24 block). Another issue is that the Z24 block has smaller main bearing and rod journal diameters so it isn't as strong as the KA block, and it doesn't have the piston oil squirters in it that help cool the pistons (which is really needed on boosted aplications!).

In my opinion your best bet is to retrofit a complete Frontier KA24de engine in place of the old Z24i engine in your '86 Hardbody if you want to go with a SC'ed conversion!

Just my experienced advice on this matter!

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eddiec
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any progress to report? i actually been looking on ebay for used s/c units and they seem pretty cheap. interested in how the kade will respond to to it. nad the whine of a s/c > than a blowoff valve imo.

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lord_hypnos
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What are the differences between the Frontier KA and the 240 KA? Besides the fact that it's newer.

s14-240
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The intake mani, ecu, throttle body, mafs, cams, belts, accessories, crank pulley. That is about it. The engines themselves are essentially the same.

Edit: Oops I should have said "I don't know of any other differences yet, but I'm sure there are more."

Read a few posts down for me getting owned on this.
Modified by s14-240 at 12:33 AM 12/2/2006

s14-240
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tloof I have a couple questions for you if you don't mind.

I want to run the 240sx intake mani on on 98 frontier with the frontier maf, and I'm wondering if I can just drill a hole in the intake pipe and bolt the frontier maf into the intake pipe. I'm sure it would be doable, but I don't know how the maf measures air on the frontier. Does it have to be in a housing of the right size and orientation like it is in the throttle body, or could it just be placed into the pipe directly?

If I didn't do the manifold swap, I would still want to make an adapter plate to put a 240sx or bigger throttle body on the frontier intake mani, and the maf question would still apply. Do you know if there is any real benefit to the 240sx intake mani other than getting rid of the small frontier tb (are the runners smaller than the 240sx's). Thanks

Walter

tloof
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S14-240,

You are wrong! The block, timing cover, oil pan, oil pickup tube, and exh manifold are different too! All truck version KA24de's have a rear sump oil pan & pickup tube that are NOT interchangable with the front sump 240SX KA24de. Also, the truck blocks have one less bolt hole in the bellhousing bolt pattern in comparison to the 240SX block and don't have a full bellhousing section in the casting at the back of the block. Another difference is the bolts that attach the starter go thru it on the engine side and directly into the bellhousing on the truck models vs the 240SX that has bolts that go thru the bellhousing on the tranny side, thru the engine block, and then directly into the starter itself.

Basically the only thing related between the two engines is the head alone, and that is it!!! (and that only applies to the '98 240SX head since the Frontier head doesn't have the last cam bearing in the casting just like the '98 240SX head...all the '97 back 240SX heads have a rear cam bearing in the casting). Not one other part is common between the two engines though they do share the same bore & stroke and physical measurements for bolt patterns on the head and motor mount & AC bracket bolt partterns(yet all the pistons, rods, & crank are different between the two). It is absolutely amazing to me that Nissan would not have just used the same block, crank, rods, and timing cover on both engines, but go figure...I guess the Bastards intentionally do that to limit the interchangability between the engines in order to artificially prop up their high parts costs!!!

As for using a Frontier throttle body on the 240SX manifold, you can forget it since it is entirely different in inlet size and the plenum on the 240SX requires a separate idle air setup to work correctly. Also, the runners on the Frontier manifold are significantly smaller than what the 240SX manifold has. You are best off to upgrade to the entire 240SX manifold, throttle body, & remote MAF unit via the use of a '98 240SX ECU that is retrofitted to fit into your stock Frontier harness by changing the ECU connector out to the '95-'98 240SX version and adding a few separate wires taped to the side of the harness. Most all of the functions an the frontier are the same as what is used on the 240SX except for a few, which is what you have to add the wiring for. Doing all this will also require a custom inlet duct be made as well!!

s14-240
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tloof wrote:S14-240,

You are wrong!
Ouch. Guess that's what I get for assuming Nissan would do the economical thing and use parts they already had development/castings for.

I would be tuning with the megasquirt. I'm wondering if for emissions obdII purposes, I could take the maf out of the frontier tb and put it in an intake pipe. I don't want the restriction of the frontier tb. I don't care if it wouldn't tune the car perfectly with this mafs setup. I just don't want to throw a code at emissions testing.


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eddiec
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any progress to report?

tloof
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No major progress to really report. I have been super busy with other things to do and haven't had a whole lot of time to work on my SC'ed Ka lately. I did finish all the custom idler support plates, but still need to make three spacers and the supercharger support brace. I did buy the 1/2" aluminum plate that I am going to lay the plywood pattern I previouly made over and then mark it all to cut to shape & drill all the mounting holes (it only cost $17 for a 16 5/8" dia x 1/2" thick disk of tool & die aluminum plate that a company in California sells at basically scrap value since those disks are left over from the machining operation of some item they are making...it's a hell of a deal that's for sure!). With those remaining things done all that is left to do is make the throttle body inlet duct and air inlet tube and it will be ready to final assemble and mount into my Nissan 720 truck for actual testing.

It will probably be around February of next year before I get it all completed (my kit built airplane and the hanger building that I am building is still eating up most of my time of late!).

I'll post more pictures as I finish more of this project!!

soon2drag93
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hey tloof!,i got this link somewhere, and its very interesting.

so for the adapter plate all you did was take a 1/2" plate of aluminum (plywood for a mock-up) and go from there? how will this hold up under boost? will you need to make a gasket with RTV at all?

im in the process of getting the parts to swap a 240 intake into my 93 Hardbody, with plans of turboing it, but now that i see this, im thinking this is a cooler idea, with the same power outputs as i want.

im not too familiar with superchargers but how much boost can you run on it? i wanted something around 12-14 on a turbo, but how much would you need on a supercharger to rach 250-300 horses?

oh, and BTW, come over to nissancustoms.com too, u might see my thread about ur SC in the engine and drivetrain forum

tloof
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Soon2drag93,

The 1/2" aluminum adapter plate can easily handle all the boost the SC can ever make (the SC case itself isn't even that thick!). No RTV is needed for a seal, only a factory Nissan gasket from the Xterra SC'ed 3.3L V6 is all that has to be used to seal the SC to the adapter plate, and a 240SX lower intake plenum gasket to seal the adapter plate to the upper 240SX intake manifold.

This setup will make about 7 psig boost with the stock SC driven pulley and the custom 5" dia crank drive pulley (7 psig is the max boost you will want to use since there is no intercooler in this design...7 psig will make a max of about 210 rwhp). If a larger drive pulley is used you can achieve about 13 psig boost, but that won't run well without alot of detonation due to the high intake air temp since there is no way to add an intercooler into this setup!


soon2drag93
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yea, 210 would be decent. so theres no way of cooling the charge air? that sucks. im really wanting to do this to my ka24e, but if 210 is all i can squeeze out, idk. what if i had this along with some internal work? i want to buy some PDM cams, bore out the block maybe .020", get new pistons (maybe even higher compression), and headers.

and with the pulley, are there and OEM pulleys from other vehicles that might work? i noticed on our dodge v-10 (not viper) at school, its a 6 groove belt pulley and looked 5 or 6" dia.

hardbody silvia
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Yeah, this forum is still rocking!

So Tloof,

referring to your last response to me..

what the hell do I do for gear ratio's? Swap rear ends or something? that screws 4wd doh... Change the 4H gear? Could I fit a v6 gears in my tranny housing? Here's something I don't understand, but I'm thinking 4H transfer gear if its available. I do need an overdrive gear too! I guess I could just get that off an old janky 240 tranny... would an '94 and below model work because those are much more common. The next question is why I would have to fully rebuild (bore, new pistons) my pickup engine to take my 240 head. I would just change the rings and leave it... And if I could get away with that, I'm kind of convinced I could get the cover, chain, sprockets, brackets, and welding mods you mentioned for cheaper than $850 for a new frontier engine. I could assemble it, but knowing the parts to assemble with is my challenge! Plus like them i'm conviced the 240 intake is way better. My '95 240 MAF will work with the '98 ecu? What custom inlet duct were you mentioning to s14-240? Do you have a pic? As for my previous plan... Aww no turbo =[ Yep I'm convinced, you've got me hell bent on a supercharger! But it'll be tough to find one in the condition you did. I've pushed my garage project back to spring.. so I got some more time to strategize. Thanks for sharing the wealth!!! ... of knowledge, that is. =]

tloof
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Soon2drag93,

No, there are no stock pulleys from ANY vehicle that will work...you have to have a custom crank pulley machined for this application like i did. I would't up the compression any at all over the stock 9.2 ratio, because with the extra SC boost any added compression will make it tough to prevent detonation! Headers would be good, but I doubt that changing the cams is worthwhile since you will want to maintain more midrange power off boost during cruise conditions in order to keep the fuel efficiency decent. As long as the boost level is kept below 7 psig no internal work is required on these engines.

Hardbody silvia,

I was discussing this same gear ratio issue with another guy within the 720 community that swapped a KA24de into his Hardbody 4x4 truck, and the bad news is that when I went back and looked at all the available OD gear set combinations for the FS5W71 trannys it turns out that the best ratio that is even possible with the 4x4 gear set you have is only a 0.813 ratio (this is achieved by using the 24/45 tooth OD set from a 4x4 version FS5W71B tranny out of the "B" version tranny that comes in the 720 4x4 truck). The stock Hardbody 4x4 tranny has a 0.821 OD ratio that is achieved with a 21/39 tooth OD set which happens to also be the exact same tooth combination that is used in the 240SX (and that same OD set creates a 0.759 OD ratio in a 2wd tranny that has the 3.321 1st gear). Unfortunately, only a 2wd tranny can achieve such a low OD ratio as the 0.759 or 0.7515 that those two gear sets provide (the 4wd tranny is limited to the 0.813 or 0.821 combinations). You are best to just live with the stock 0.821 OD ratio you already have.

Now, the stock differential gear ratio that is used in the 4 cyl model Hardbody truck is 4.375, so I think it will be best that you change out to a lower differential ratio of 4.625 and NOT the 4.9 that comes in the Xterra. Since the Hardbody & Pathfinder rear housings are the H233B type that have 31 spline axles vs the 33 splines on the Xterra, then that is another reason to stick with using a 4.625 ratio setup from a Pathfinder (this will also keep your final drive ratio in OD to the equivalent of 3.8 vs 4.02 if the Xterra's 4.9 gears are used). The H233B rear housing only requires that the center section be changed out when making a gear change; however, the entire front R180a housing will have to be changed to a R200a from a Pathfinder or a V6 Hardbody truck in order to upgrade to the 4.625 gears (the R200a is a direct bolt-in in place of the R180a and is much stronger!).

At 65 mph using 30” tall tires (which is typical for a 4x4 Hardbody truck) and the 4.625 gear set your engine will be turning 2765 rpm when in 5th gear (that is with the stock 0.821 OD ratio you currently have). As a comparison, at 65 mph in 5th gear the engine in my 2wd 720 is turning at 2586 rpm (this is with the 235/60-15 tires, 4.111 rear gear, and 0.7515 OD ratio I have installed). As you can see you will be running about 7% higher in cruise rpm than I am and thus will suffer slightly worse fuel mileage, but the engine rpm will be slightly higher in its power band and thus should easily go up steeper roads when cruising at 65 mph than mine will. You will have a much lower 1st gear than I do for improved offroad traction though (just for a good low gear comparison, every 1000 engine rpm will move my 2wd 720 combination 500.2 ft in 1st gear vs 426.1 ft for a 4.625 geared 4x4 Hardbody in 1st gear…so that gives close to a 15% lower 1st gear combo in 4x4 high range and of course you still have an additional gear reduction available when in 4x4 low range that my 2wd 720 doesn’t have).

Just for the record, your current 4.375 gear combination should cause the engine to run at 2616 rpm when in 5th gear at 65 mph, and would net 450.5 ft traveled for every 1000 engine rpm’s in 1st gear (which is about 1% more rpm than mine in cruise and a 11% lower 1st gear combo than mine). Also, if you were to change out to the Xterra 4.9 gear ratio, then your engine would run at 2930 rpm in 5th gear at 65 mph, and would net 402.2 ft traveled for every 1000 engine rpm’s in 1st gear (which is about 14% more rpm than mine in cruise and a 20% lower 1st gear combo than mine). All of the 1st gear calculations above are based on the fact that the Hardbody 4x4 tranny has a 3.985 1st gear vs the 3.592 that the Frontier 4x4 tranny uses.

Yuu have to change the pistons on the KA24e engine to de pistons if you want to change out to a de head, or you will end up with well over a 11.3 compression ratio...and that won't work worth a damn on the street in NA form (much less if a SC'er is added with boost).

Yes, your '95 240SX MAF will work with a '98 240SX ECU, but you really want to use a '96 240SX ECU since JWT will only reprogram that version for a boosted engine and not the '97-'98 model ECU's (I don't know why for sure, but while the '96-'98 model 240SX's are really the same mechanically, Nissan did change a few on the wire positions around in the ECU connector and JWT must not want to go thru flip flopping them around...instead they say to use a '96 ECU on the '97 & '98 models after you personally change the required wire positions within the harness). Of course you are only upgrading a '97 Hardbody, so using a '96 ECU will be no big deal anyway since you have to rewire some of the harness regardless.

the custom inlet duct I mentioned is what I had to make for my conversion, and what has to basically be done for any KAde conversion into the Hardbody or 720 trucks!




soon2drag93
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yea, as for internals, is there anything i can change for more power? not just reliablilty, but i want power, and this is cheaper than the turbo setup i had in mind to make at least 250 hp.

also, could you integrate an intercooler into this by making the adapter plate, but instead of mounting it onto the intake, kinda somehow send it through an intercooler, and into the intake? so it wouldnt be sitting on the intake in reality. idk, im just rambling on......

tloof
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The only way to make more power is added boost or more radical cam timing. The first will force you to add an intercooler in order to increase the boost higher than 7 psig, and the second will hurt your low to mid range power when off boost during cruising conditions.

Unfortunately there is NO way to add an intercooler in the system due to a lack of room for the supercharger fitup up under the stock upper 240SX intake. The only way it could possibly be done were if the upper intake were to be cut off at the high point and a custom plenum welded onto it, and then a separate plenum mounted underneith that new upper one that the SC is bolted to that diverts the boosted air out a single outlet piped up to the intercooler. The return air from the intercooler would then go back into the upper plenum on the manifold itself. The throttle body will still be mounted on the inlet port to the SC itself. Keep in mind that all of this will require ALOT of complicated fabrication in comparison to the single 1/2" mounting plate that I am now using without an intercooler, so it will take quite awhile to complete!!!

You can be the first to do it if you really want an intercooler!!!! Good Luck!

soon2drag93
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if i had the time, then i would be all for it. but with school right now, theres little enough time to do other things.

i might think about this over, because this would be incredible. how much more power do you think it would be capable of with an intercooler?

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Reno
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i would like the idea of a Twin Charged KA.. w00t 30 lb pulley with a GT35

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Tex Drifter
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hey me and a couple of buddies in san antonio were trying to build a custom supercharger kit but you got to it before we did! can you send me an e-mail of everything you did step by step exactly, we are going do build one for a drift car and if anyone ask how we did it well tell them to go to nicoclub.com and talk to you, so you get all the credit and maybe give you a cut of the profit if we have business with the idea! my e-mail is [email protected], thank you!

Justin (Tex Drifter)

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Bonestock
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tloof,

You are my hero!!

You might also be the smartest KA mech I have listened too.I will be building this setup thanks to you. My wife hates you for it too. haha... as soon as I get my 98 frontier rolling again once I finish my Solid Axle Swap I will start looking for my new charger.. please drop me an email so I can somehow get those templates of the brackets and adapter plate from you.

Thanks for all your knowledge and being open about it
Modified by Bonestock at 12:21 AM 12/19/2006

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S3t0_S13
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(sigh) wish i knew mechanics, my KA is in desperate need of power,someone should sell this 2 a manufacturer so i can get my hands on one!

tloof
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Hey Soon2drag93,

I was thinking again about how an intercooler could possibly be added into my supercharger setup and I remembered a modified manifold that I saw awhile back that Xcessive Motorsports makes for the 240SX that has a special plenum mounted up high where the top manifold runners come up at their highest point (Xcessive cuts off the runners at this high point on a stock 240SX manifold and then welds a flat plate onto the remaining part that has the injector bosses on it so that their custom plenum bolts onto it). If this manifold were to be installed in place of the normal stock one (or better yet if someone were to weld a flat aluminum plate on their own manifold after cutting off the runners the same way as Xcessive does so that a modified stock 240SX plenum could be welded onto that plate up higher...this would save the $500 cost that Xcessive wants for their manifold!!) then there would be just enough room to allow a fabbed up lower plenum to bolt up to the Eaton supercharger located in the same place I currently have mine mounted at. This lower plenum could then have an outlet welded onto it in much the same manor as the upper plenum so that some 2 1/2" tubing could be attached to feed to an intercooler. The return tubing from the intercooler would then run back and attach to the upper plenum. I think this method could well be a workable method and might not be all that difficult to do (just time consuming). The added intercooler would then allow greater boost up to about a max of 14 psig or so (which should net close to 300 rwhp...not bad at all for such a low cost DIY setup!!!).

I might just consider doing this myself at a later date for an upgrade to my current SC'ed KA project! (damn, more fabrication work to do!!!)


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