Supercharged KA build

[ss82480]

Well unfortunately we don't have a forum dedicated to supercharging so this is the next best bet. Here are the details.

Freshly rebuilt m62 eaton supercharger(from a frontier)Thomas Knight adapter platesa) sr injectors + jwt tune ORb) 8:1 FMU .... still decidingWalbro 255 fuel pumpremoval of butterflysAEM widebandPolished the intake manifold(why not?)

Mods already on car...

Injen intakeHotshot headersApexi 3" N1 exhaustTest pipeBrian Crower v2sCompetition clutch + lightened flywheelUnorthodox racing underdrive pulleyz32 fuel filterSAFCII

My goal is a simple 200-220rwhp RELIABLY. With the underdrive pulley I should be starting at around 6psi and don't have any intentions of going higher. After being content with an NA for 9 years I don't think it will take much to satisfy my hunger.




Modified by ss82480 at 7:31 PM 1/26/2009

[480sx]

Clean coup, looks great.

Its up to you really. A FMU setup would be much more simple and hassle free. A JWT + 370s would have better fuel econ and would put out more power if you fine tuned it.

Cool build, keep us updated man! Love to see someone doing a KA-R.

[ghx407]

Very interesting; keep us posted.

[s13rb25det]

how did you get ahold of thomas knight, his website is a joke and I never hear back from him.

[ss82480]

Well after talking with him on the phone for quite a while, he actually notified me that he was going to put a kit on ebay... picked it up for $325(normal price is $800)

[eazye2000]

Awesome man!

We've not got out project off the ground yet. Like the other guy said, getting ahold of that Thomas guy is next to impossible. We ended up making a mock-up plate out of MDF for right now. But plan on cutting a plate out of some 1/2" aluminum depending on what needs to be blended port wise to make things line up.

I don't want to thread jack, but I didn't think anyone would be interested in a supercharged KA except for me! So I'll share just this one pic of ours. It's a bit different, but you catch the idea...

[ss82480]

Looks like you got your hands full there! How far along in mocking up are you? Decided what you are going to do for the pulley setup etc? That poor motor is gonna get double teamed, I sure hope its built lol! I'm always interested in someone elses s/c setup!

[480sx]

Yo EZ if you want i can get that waterjetted out for you. I was going to buy a half inch alum plate anyway and iv got a crucial deal on waterjetting. My boy writes the autocad programs. Ill split the cost of the plate, and the water jetting with you. I want a ka24de IM flange outa 1/2inch, so works out pretty well.

I wouldnt charge you anything for it, other than maybe some time and ur skillz getting a rom tune i have onto a Nistune board.. ; )

[turbonola]

i was just wondering why don't people use centrifugal charger on 240's? they'd probably be easier to setup. i know they are like the redhead stepchild of the f.i. world but they're a viable option.

[WDRacing]

Centrifugals are the worst kind of FI. Tons of lag AND they cost power to spin.

[turbonola]

yeah i know, i'm just saying they might be easier to setup. there's a guy that autox's an alfa romeo and he runs a roots type setup but he has it setup sorta like a centrifugal. its hard to explain but it works awsome for him. if i were to s/c a 240 i'd set it up just like that mainly because he runs a front mount. i know there are a handful of s/c 240's out there but are any of them running and kind of coolers. my ex-wife had a gtp grand prix so i know how an intercooler would work with a roots type.

[turbonola]

ok so i tried to make a drawing of what i was sayingsc= superchargeric= intercoolerim= intake manifoldps= power steeringalt= altenatorthe black marks are pulliesthe yellow marks are belts

the s/c is supposed to be sitting on a sotra bracket/ brace. the bracket/brace is basically a plate with a hole in it leading to i/c piping just like it's a turbo or centrifugal.

[chad b.]

seems like a lot of work for 220whp. NA Hondas make more than that. You don't think you'll get tired of it quick?

[turbonola]

they also only make half the torque and they're fwd (fail wheel drive)

[480sx]

If your only going for low boost on a roots type charger you should just stick with charger on manifold, no cooler. You dont really need a cooler for 7-8 psi the Roots is still in its efficiency range and is not super heating the air. You can add a bit of water injection if your paranoid about it.

I would think that the amount of energy your going to lose using a roots type blower through an IC system for 7-8 psi is going to negate any gains that you would get by running an intercooler. You will need to run a larger pulley if your using a IC system and your blower will require more power to spin it. If you were going to push the boost up, 10-14 range then your IC setup might be warranted. But really, a water injection system would be ideal for a lower boost SC setup.

[ss82480]

Yeah I don't plan on running any intercooler setup, no need. As for the Honda comment.... If you dont know what the difference will be between this and a 250hp NA honda, well I'll just leave that alone.

[WDRacing]

I've been researching this for about 2 years now. I just picked up a another S14 so I can finally start my project, which is fairly close to yours. I'll be using the same SC'r except I'll be mounting mine "remotely", which means not attached to the intake manifold. Mine will be placed over the exhaust manifold and the piping with run through a big fmic. This will allow me to run 15-20 psi without super heating the air charge.

One thing I noticed missing in your equation is ignition retard. If you want reliable, you have to have some way of retarding timing on boost. I suggest the MSD BTM, which is what I'll be using as well. I've used it before, it works awesome.

Keep us updated on your progress. I'll start a new thread after I get my motor swapped everything running factory perfect. Lesson I learned a long time ago, get her running great before you modify anything...lol.

WD

[WDRacing]

Yo EZ if you want i can get that waterjetted out for you. I was going to buy a half inch alum plate anyway and iv got a crucial deal on waterjetting. My boy writes the autocad programs. Ill split the cost of the plate, and the water jetting with you. I want a ka24de IM flange outa 1/2inch, so works out pretty well.

I wouldnt charge you anything for it, other than maybe some time and ur skillz getting a rom tune i have onto a Nistune board.. ; )

I've been looking for you on AIM bro

I may need the hookup with that waterjetting. Let me know the cost so I can add that in to my expenses. Just a 1/2 alum plate cut to to shape

[480sx]

I just got back from Maine, was there for a week visiting my mom and brother. Ill hit you up tomorrow bro.

[Crazyirish]

Centrifugals are the worst kind of FI. Tons of lag AND they cost power to spin.

I thought lag was generally defined as the delay between throttle input and boost being built. If this is the case then a centrifugal would have no lag as the boost they produce is a direct product of engine rpm.

I have seem this statement made many times and have never understood the reasoning. Am I missing something?

[crzycav86]

You're right.

To make such a generalized statement like that shows a lack of understanding.

[WDRacing]

I thought lag was generally defined as the delay between throttle input and boost being built. If this is the case then a centrifugal would have no lag as the boost they produce is a direct product of engine rpm.

I have seem this statement made many times and have never understood the reasoning. Am I missing something?

You're right.

To make such a generalized statement like that shows a lack of understanding.

I don't know who you guys are referring to when it comes to lack of understanding...but it sure as hell isn't me.

Lag and boost threshold are terms generally reserved for turbo's so we can choose trim and AR size. Things generally NOT used when discussing a supercharger.

But since you two can't seem to fathom why a centrifugal SC is termed laggy...allow me to explain it for you.

How would you like to hit full boost when you max out your rpms? Cause that's what you get when you choose centrifugal. AND that is the ultimate meaning of lag IMO.

A turbo does not respond like this, a roots style SC does not respond like this...so what you get IS the worst of both worlds. It gives the motor paracitic loss and suffers from lag. If you don't get it

Does it provide some boost from the get go...sure. But it's already robbing you of horse power just to break even. So yes, lag is what you get.

Is that explained enough well enough?

WD

[NateDogg]

To the OP: Where are you gonna put your throttle body and intake pipe?

[crzycav86]

I guess you can base your opinion on that... but you forget to mention is that centrifugals have efficiency like a turbo. and efficiency from a roots blower is ****, even in its most efficient range.

also, centrifugals don't have a max boost... so you can't really compare in terms of a turbo. what you do get is immediate throttle response, especially if you're already in the upper rpms.

i see centrifugals as immediate throttle response with efficiency of a turbocharger. parasitic loss be damned on an engine that can take the added stress.

i guess i'm just leery of blanket statements that show a huge bias without considering the other's advantages. and a lot your posts leave me scratching my head....

[WDRacing]

I apologize for being a jerk...

To many beers and I watched my Patriots get owned ALL over the field. So I was in a bad mood

[ss82480]

To the OP: Where are you gonna put your throttle body and intake pipe?

As in other builds, it will be going near the s/c inlet... located somewhat near the wiper motor in the back, just have to bend the throttle cable in a different direction and relocate the wiring for the TPS.

[WDRacing]

The newer roots blowers are actually very efficient man. You also have immediate throttle response sine you'll have full boost at throttle tip in, no matter where you are in the rpm range.

All superchargers have a max boost, it's determined via rpm and or pulley size. If the rev limit is 7200 rpm and you're only going to get so much boost unless you change the pulley. My point was that if you're getting 7psi at 7200rpm, then you won't see all 7 psi until you reach 7200 rpm. Thats about 1 psi per 1000 rpm. Which to me is not acceptable.

A turbo or a roots blower yields far more overall power throughout the rpm range then a centrifugal type blower. That is fact.

WD

[ss82480]

Ok it has been a while since an update.

I did decide to go with 370cc injectors and picked up a used JWT ecu that I am waiting for the reflash to come back. And in a turn of events, which is probably for the best, the timing chain starting making a nasty rattling sound in the past couple of weeks. Plans are to replace all timing chain/ tensioners/ guides and going to go ahead and do the oil pump while I am down there.





The EGR needed a little persuasion to come out of the header..



We decided to remove the bracket for the relay box in order to make more space for the intake pipe that will be running there.



And a little taste of what it will look like when we finish.




Modified by ss82480 at 4:37 PM 1/12/2009

[Razi]

Super awesome!Looks great!

[s14derrick]

i"m excited for this ! when its done do we get a video? how hard was this setup to put together? seems very dependable and would make a fun ride