Shooting for 400HP on TD06-20G

[andrewdees]

Hey guys im helping a buddy build his KAT. He has the Greddy kit already installed which uses the TD06-20G turbo. We're shooting for close to 400 hp on high boost. I have a couple questions though...

1) What cams should we use? We have 2 exhaust S13 cams installed, but I didnt know if these would flow enough to get to 400hp.

2)We're going with the AMS bottom end rebuild kit, should we look into changing any of the valvetrain components (Valve springs, valves etc.) if we're shooting fo 400 hp?

3)What fuel management do you recommend for a 400hp high boost goal? I have read up some on the EManage Ultimate but I dunno if I would trust a piggy back system for these power levels.

4)Lastly, Ive searched, and have read a few posts that say its better to use the Fel-Pro factory gasket as opposed to the Cometic MHG because of sealing problems with the MHG. Is 400hp too much to ask from a Fel-Pro head gasket??

Thanks!

[480sx]

1) Those cams are fine for 400 hp.

2) Only change head components if you want to rev higher than 7000, or your stock springs are super old.

3) You should get a tuned ecu, best bang for your buck option. Piggyback units while being able to reach that hp simply arnt safe for that power level.

4) 400 hp is fine on a normal HG. In fact, 500 seems to be the limit, although people have pushed them past 30 psi of boost.

[GTR PrYdE]

werd on the post above.

however. unless you have a really good tune, or race gas, you might not hit the 400whp mark, as it's smaller than a 50 trim t3/t4

[andrewdees]

Thanks for the responses.

We're gonna use the Crower stage 2 cams.

The head will be stock except for new valve stem seals and guides and maybe a set of SS valves (They have some for $180/set on Ebay).

I talked to some people and I think we're gonna stick with the Emanage ultimate just so we can fine tune it.

Thanks again

[Logan76]

If you want 400hp your going to need more than an E-manage. If you want to "fine tune" your motor you would get a tuned ECU from somewhere such as JWT or Enthalpy and use it in conjunction with your E-manage.

[WDRacing]

Incorrect, the Emanage Ultimate is a nice piece of work and just as good as any of the current ecu tunes IMO. Read up on it...

[scheffler]

If you have the emanage with the KA24de motor seting then I would say go with that. If not I had a really hard time getting mine to run properly, and eventualy scraped the emanage and went with enthalpy ecu much better IMO. But you can hit your goals with either one. I see no reason to use both in conjuntion, will porbably cause more problem that way.I think you might have more of a issue with the turbo getting you to 400hp then finding something to manage it.

[GEO]

heat pump, not worth it

[andrewdees]

The TD06-20G isnt capable of 400WHP?? I was under the impression that it could make that kind of power.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

It can.

[Colorado_S14]

You wont hit your power level on that greddy turbo I dont think. The turbine housing design sucks and will limit you. Time for a new mani and a new turbo

[joenismos15]

Im thinking it can looking at that compressor map. its kinda what made me decide to use it too. also had looked at another compressor map and mapped it out at 17psi for my own goals.

[ken240sx]

GL

oh and GEO I hate your avatar...I poked my LCD screen thinking there was a f'n bug on it....lol

[BACARDI_DWB]

uh yeah that turbo should make that power. i have a td05-16g and make 350hp, with 400hp on the horizon. there are plenty of guys (SRT-4's) making 425hp on the 20g.

SRT's have the same displacement.

this is the kit that hahn racecraft offers for the SRT's and these are typical hp /track ratings for SRT's

hahn 16g = 350hp 12.3@116mphhahn 20g = 425hp 11.8@122mph

i know you guys are not here to talk about SRT's but turbo sizes should be about the same since they are equal in displacement and engine type (dohc 16v...)

[farlsmagee6]

how do you feel about the internal gate on the 20g? Also what kind of downpipe and exhaust are you running? I am actually shooting for the same numbers on the same system but Im worried about boost creep as I've read up that it has been a problem with people using the 20g... I'd love to see the end result with the emanage tune

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I actually have an Emance base tune. The internal gate on my 20g was "ported" or whatever the hell they call it, to make it bigger to counter act boost creep. If you are going to be making that much horsepower, you will probably be out of the boost creep zone of the turbo haha. (I'd only worry about boost creep at lower than 12psi). I ran mine at 8psi with 0 creep.

The exhaust I run is an APS HFTO, made for a WRX. Bolted to that is custom 3 inch exhaust that cuts down to 2.5" right before exiting in front of the rear wheel.

[joenismos15]

The internal gate on my 20g was "ported" or whatever the hell they call it,

Can you throw some pics up of the "ported" internal gate? Sounds interesting, Heh dont even know what to search for to find out more.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

haha, you are one lucky son of a ***** that I actually have the turbo off of the car right now. I'll get some pics within the next couple of days. Basically, what they did was increase the size of the hole for the wastegate, so instead of it being 6mm in diameter, it is now 7mm, allowing a larger ammount of gas to escape.

[farlsmagee6]

i thought the wastegate port was more like 20mm... and from what I've read of RedKAT's posts about the 20g it seems like holding steady boost will be difficult because of the small outlet for the wastegate. apparently it just cant vent enough exhaust gas to not creep at low boost...

the question i have is that if you use a boost controller to bypass the wastegate (that would normally open up at .5 bar) and allow the turbo to make say 1.0 bar of boost before it opens the wastegate, do you think it will still creep upward of 1.0 bar? I am concerned that the gate still wont be able to vent enough exhaust to hold it steady at whatever you set the boost controller to.

do you guys know anyone using the 20g at higher boost? I am on the verge of just dumping the whole 20g setup and going with a t04e with an external wastegate instead of chance it

[PapaSmurf2k3]

So you were planning on running the turbo at whatever boost the wastegate was set at, and now you are wondering if turning up the boost would result in less boost creep?It should.You can always add another external gate, giving you 2 wastegates total if you are truly worried about it. Mine should be running up to snuff within a month or 2 (I'm moving to MS so its kinda getting put on standby a little bit). Mine didn't creep at 8psi, so I'm not worried in the least of it creeping at 18psi.

[joenismos15]

Only Time i have seen boost creep was from 10 to 12 PSI lower than that it was fine and above that at 15psi it seems to hold steady. when i was getting boost creep it was also really hot and humid out side too, Not sure if that makes a difference but it could.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Anyway, here are the pics you wanted.20G (it actually says 23G on it, go figure)

Also, you may need to clock the turbo. When you do, you are going to have to separate the compressor housing/Center Cartridge with the turbine housing. There is a small dowel pin on the turbine housing that is a ***** to see if you are not looking for it.Mine pulled right out with a pair of pliers. Now you can clock the turbo freely (well, you need to remove the wastegate from the compressor side while you do it).

[joenismos15]

hmmm i measured the opening on mine and it is saying 7mm guess greddy did "port" that when they got a hold of the turbo. but like i said before i dont have much trouble with boost creep.

[URAS]

easy for those power levels, our old rb26 with twin T517Z's making 400rwkw had no dramas with the emanage ultimate, we have a few customers running 400-500hp with the ultimates and they are hardly close to the limits of its capabilities.

[farlsmagee6]

what about with the emanage blue? you think its safe/feasible with just the ignition harness to control timing?

[ken240sx]

you can get away with 400hp with the blue if you're controlling both ignition and fuel I think.

[farlsmagee6]

It can.

how do you figure the rpm's from the compressor map? i just cant figure out compressor maps all that well...

also how would you calculate the psi at any given rpm? say, for every 400 rpm increment...

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Well, I don't have the map in front of me... I'm at work and the browser doesn't load ANY pictures at all. Basically, you have to figure what PSI you will be running at, and figure airflow based on engine displacement. From there I make an educated guess as to when you will hit full boost. From there you pretty much just draw a straight line across until you get to max RPMS, and from there you see how much airflow you are moving, and from there, you calculate horsepower!

Seems tedious, I know, but it can be done. I'd send you my file of turbo calculations but I think its either on my old computer, or on my computer at home which at this current moment in time does not have internet. There should be some threads around about all sorts of stuff like that though, I mean jeeze, thats where I learned it from.

[gak-custom]

1) Those cams are fine for 400 hp.

2) Only change head components if you want to rev higher than 7000, or your stock springs are super old.

3) You should get a tuned ecu, best bang for your buck option. Piggyback units while being able to reach that hp simply arnt safe for that power level.

4) 400 hp is fine on a normal HG. In fact, 500 seems to be the limit, although people have pushed them past 30 psi of boost.

345whp at 15psi,stock cams,stock piston,stock head,oem ecu with chip,apexi s-afc,720 ing.,255 walbro,z32maz,z32 fuelfilter,60,64 turbo.

[farlsmagee6]

hey did you ever get this thing running? I just got mine put back together and running... not pushing the turbo very hard but with a hallman manual controller let all the way out it wants to spool pretty immediately to 15psi and seems like it wants to make even more on an ok base tune (that's never making it past 5000 rpm or so...) cant tell if its creep or just the mbc wont go any lower...

needless to say it pulls pretty damm good and spools quick with the overbore but I still worry that given enough throttle it will continue spooling till the end of time. whatever happens I'm sure I will figure a way to cope, but I'm still interested to hear what someone else is doing with the setup

once i get some good tuning Ill try to get something written up with maps and what not for you guys.