S13 Red Top Vs. S13 Black Top - The differences

Post by **SpeedRacer1** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:09 am

0.64 is the turbine A/R, AKA the exhaust side. 0.80 is for the compressor side.

Post by **nyamping** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:14 pm

SpeedRacer1 wrote:0.64 is the turbine A/R, AKA the exhaust side. 0.80 is for the compressor side.

Ok I'm new in here. I have been lurking for months now. Quietly ...stealing priceless information from you guys. Its been helpful though. So thanks... Right now I'm in the engine shopping stage.

With that comes a question. Do you guys know whats the difference between a Kouki and Zenki S14 engine? Besides the ECU.

23710-69F00 - S14 - SR20DET - M/T - 10/93~02/9523710-69F01 - S14 - SR20DET - M/T - 02/95~06/9623710-80F00 - S14 - SR20DET - M/T - 06/96~12/9823710-0A547 - S14 - SR20DET - M/T - 09/97~12/98

I have searched but can't find a clue. Forward appreciation, of course...

Post by **SpeedRacer1** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:29 pm

Well the thread is about S13 SR's and this is a double post but anyway the engines are the same. The harness, ECU, alternator and a couple other random parts are different.

Post by **Mudracer** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:22 pm

How much stronger are the s14 SR20DET motors compared to the S13 SR20DET Blacktop motors when it comes down to getting about 350hp out of them?Whats the main drawback we are looking at besides better design...?

Post by **SpeedRacer1** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:24 pm

They will both take 350 with no hassles at all. You just need to have them tuned properly or you will be blowing parts up, rings, gaskets, etc.

Post by **AR31TU** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 7:48 pm

I heard the cylinder head ports were bigger on the S13 red/blacktops vs the S14 motors. Anybody confirm this?

Post by **DRIFTINIZ** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:27 am

Dori Dori wrote:They all should...they're very little fins...like ribbing.

a picture of what these look like maybe.....just curious to kno if my red top is one of the "rare" kind??

Post by **DRIFTINIZ** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:31 am

found it never mind, thanks!

Post by **forksquared** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:26 am

are there numbers or markings on your engine that one can use to find out when the motor was in production and all that jazz?

Post by **Slipstream** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:18 pm

I have a SR motor with the fins, but the valve cover is aluminum, and looks like it has always been. I was told it was a S13 blacktop engine, could someone have switched the valve cover to a SR20DE? The cover has the "Intercooled Turbo" plug cover with it and the holes to mount it. Any clues? The front also says 52F and SR20 on the back side. I'm not sure if these mean anything or not.

Post by **revel** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:33 am

dj_lennon_franz wrote:88-90.5-CA18det (S13 and 180sx T25 turbo 182hp 180tq 7psi)

90.5-94.5-SR20det Redtop (S13 silvia and 180sx T25 turbo 210hp 207tq 7psi)

94.5-96-SR20det Blacktop (SilEighty NISMO cams T28 turbo 242hp 234tq 10psi only 400 ever made)

95-99-SR20det Blacktop (180sx T25 turbo 210hp 207 tq 7psi)

i have a flat-top redtop with the cooling fins on the head topping out at 10psi on the stock ecu.

Post by **revel** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:02 am

with the Garrett A/R .80 turbo.....thats the only part i can see...and even that was a pain to find.

so is this a frankenstien motor? cuz i am 99.9% sure it is not anything rare.
Modified by revel at 8:34 PM 7/17/2006

Post by **matt_pound** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:02 pm

i have heard that the j4 ecu from the 180sx type x (the last years for the 180sx) will not work on the earlier s13 motors is this true

Post by **SpeedRacer1** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:42 pm

revel wrote:with the Garrett A/R .80 turbo.....thats the only part i can see...and even that was a pain to find.

so is this a frankenstien motor? cuz i am 99.9% sure it is not anything rare.

Modified by revel at 8:34 PM 7/17/2006

Probably just not hooked up right.

matt_pound wrote:i have heard that the j4 ecu from the 180sx type x (the last years for the 180sx) will not work on the earlier s13 motors is this true

Yup. You can rewire it to work if you really have problems finding a regular ECU.

Post by **toycoma** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:51 pm

matt_pound wrote:i have heard that the j4 ecu from the 180sx type x (the last years for the 180sx) will not work on the earlier s13 motors is this true

I got a question about the 180sx type x black top. This is the motor I am putting into my cressida according to the ECU that came with the motor and trans. is there anything special about the type x motors or do they put out the same 210hp as the other black top motors before them? And how much more hp do stock SRs make with a tubular manifold, elbow, 3" down pipe and front mount intercooler set up?? 240whp with just the above according to this link zerothread?id=59344 ? If that is true, I have to say wow. I was making about 185 hp at the crank with my 7mge so this is going to be a huge increase in hp and save me at least 200 or so pounds out of the car.

here are some pictures incase anyone thinks I am joking about putting one in my cressida.
Modified by toycoma at 12:32 AM 7/20/2006

Post by **180fan** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:54 am

s13 and the s14/15 heads differ with the way air enters their intake side. high port vs low port. Not necessarily bigger or smaller.

you can make the j4 work. You'll need to do some rewiring.

Toycoma, don't expect everything to perform the same way. For example, if you get the worst manifold and compare it to a peakboost manifold, you won't get the same gain on the cheap one as you would on the peakboost. Also I don't see why anyone would call you a liar about puttin an sr into a cressi. The SR has already been crammed into a hell of alot of cars.

Post by **toycoma** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:03 am

180fan wrote:s13 and the s14/15 heads differ with the way air enters their intake side. high port vs low port. Not necessarily bigger or smaller.

you can make the j4 work. You'll need to do some rewiring.

Toycoma, don't expect everything to perform the same way. For example, if you get the worst manifold and compare it to a peakboost manifold, you won't get the same gain on the cheap one as you would on the peakboost. Also I don't see why anyone would call you a liar about puttin an sr into a cressi. The SR has already been crammed into a hell of alot of cars.

got ya. its going to just have a megan turbo manifold, elbow and down pipe with something to get the exhaust out from under the car but probably no muffler and no cat. plus a hybrid front mount IC.

Post by **Ihiryu** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:41 pm

hey stupid question, I searched but only came up on this, is there a way I could use a s13 red/black block on a s14 vvt head??

Post by **Amarant** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:29 pm

I'm looking at getting a SR20DET for my 1990 240sx fastback fairly soon. I'm just having troubles differentiating between the different types. I'm not planning on getting the s15 because I hear I'll need a lot of custom work getting the driveshaft to line up, mounting the engine, etc.

I'm really trying to figure out the differences between the s13 redtop, s13 blacktop, bluebird, and GTiR engines.

thanks in advance to anyone sharing insight...

Post by **ABCDrift** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:24 am

Ihiryu wrote:hey stupid question, I searched but only came up on this, is there a way I could use a s13 red/black block on a s14 vvt head??

i have the same question!

Post by **AWDTurboGalant** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:12 pm

dj_lennon_franz wrote:88-90.5-CA18det (S13 and 180sx T25 turbo 182hp 180tq 7psi)90.5-94.5-SR20det Redtop (S13 silvia and 180sx T25 turbo 210hp 207tq 7psi)94.5-96-SR20det Blacktop (SilEighty NISMO cams T28 turbo 242hp 234tq 10psi only 400 ever made)95-99-SR20det Blacktop (180sx T25 turbo 210hp 207 tq 7psi)95-98-SR20det Notchtop (S14 blacktop T28 turbo VVT intake cam 232hp 224tq 7psi)99-02-SR20det Notchtop (S15 blacktop T28 turbo VVT intake & exhaust 252hp 243tq 10psi)

Do any of these respond to mods better then the other ones?? If you planned of doing the motor over anyway does it really matter which block you use? From what little I know about Nissans the SR motors can all take a lot of pain but obviously I'm asking you guys cause, well......your the ones to ask

Post by **redtop91** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:16 pm

They all respond equally and with most budgets its most cost effecient to go with a redtop. They are all essentially the same except for that Nismo one.

Post by **sr20goofus** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:06 am

i dont understand why everyone is so pressed over the "heat fins" as being a big difference between the two motors. I have a 180sx Black top in my car now, and when compared to the S13 redtop i have at home that i ran for about a year before that, they are exactly the same in every which way, the"fins" are just an attempt at a head design i guess, they are not cooling fins, they dont protrude enough nor do they have any kind of high air flow across them to actully constitute any collling effects. The pistons might have the bennificial coolign fins onteh uderside of the pistons, i havnt taking aparat the redtop to know if it has them or not, and i cant remeber if my blacktop doses or not. When placed side by side, intake and exhaust runners in the head are all also very similar, tho i didnt make measurments to call them exact. I made the same power at the same boost with identicle set-ups. my blacktop ecu...worked great on my redtop with my blacktop engine harness....

these are cooling fins....

enjoy.....

Post by **amolao** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:32 am

What was the last year of the SR20DE (NON TURBO) RWD and specific car model ....???

thanks

Post by **redtop91** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:43 pm

amolao wrote:What was the last year of the SR20DE (NON TURBO) RWD and specific car model ....???

thanks

I believe it was the S14 K's but I dunno what year.

Post by **Second Shadow** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:18 pm

I agree about the fins, they really are superfical. the big (significant) differances between the s13 and s14 engines are the high-port vs low port design, variable intake timming, and the turbos. the high-port used on the older (all s13)engines is supposed to flow better, which would give you more power and torque throughout the rev band and higher overall horse power potential, and they make 205 hp. The s14 engines however, have the variable intake timing, which is supposed to give a stronger midrange, and make 215-220 hp. Also, the s14 turbo is a t28, vs a t25 for the s13, which would alow it to run higher boost and therefore more power. The s15 has the variable intake timming, yet another different turbo (still a t28 but a little different in the turbine section I believe), has a six speed transmission, a higher compression ratio (9 to 1 vs 8.5 to 1 on the s13/s14), and makes 250 hp. The six speed is a little weaker, because the gears are in fact thinner. I don't know how much weaker, but I've heard people say they're fine, and people say there crap.This is what I would seggest; don't buy an s15 engine. that 250 hp is tempting I know, but it'll be expensive, the drive shaft won't line up, unless you're a sr20 geru with all kinds of resorces and experiance you probably won't get it to run right, and if you want big power, you're basically going to have to turn it into an s14 engine anyway(lower compression and retune ecu). as for s13 or s14, thats up to you, but I promise you as long as you get a good engine, either one will be fine.I guess I should also mention the ff version. There was a front wheel drive version sold in the bluebird and GTi pulsar I think, and a non-turbo version can be found in some sentras and a certain infinity. If you have a 240, I wouldn't recomend getting that one either. You might get it to work, but I doubt it. note: a good friend of mine from japan did metion however that among the stock turbos that came with the sr20's, the one from the front wheel drive is the best, better than the s15 in fact.

Post by **PantherRacer** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:37 am

amolao wrote:What was the last year of the SR20DE (NON TURBO) RWD and specific car model ....???

thanks

2000 S15 Spec S.

Post by **SpeedRacer1** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:50 pm

They made the S15 Silvia Spec S through 2001.

Post by **matt_pound** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:03 am

Ihiryu wrote:hey stupid question, I searched but only came up on this, is there a way I could use a s13 red/black block on a s14 vvt head??

yes, you can put a vvl head on a rwd s13in fact there are a couple of guys that have the vvl head and modified a gti-r manifold to use so they have the ITB

check out the http://www.sr20forum.com

Post by **NissaNhErO** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:12 pm

the only problem i see with the 5 speed is that it winds out too qick in 5th. i think mine is at like 4grand on the rpm at like 65 or so. not that i mind it but it seems it could you an extra gear.

S13 Red Top Vs. S13 Black Top - The differences

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