Rising from the Ashes. The Rally 240SX rebuild thread.

General discussion forum about the 240sx, and a great place to introduce yourself to the board!
User avatar
IanS
Posts: 10090
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:07 pm
Car: 2002 Subaru WRX, 2010 Subaru Forester XT, 2004 Infiniti G35 Coupe.
Location: Esko, MN
Contact:

Post

PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:Sweet video man!
Thanks!!

Just for you James, here is proof of our on stage dancing shenanigans.

It is in car video from another rally team. At minute 1:33 you can see the corner that took us out of the race. At minute 11:15 you will see where I finally parked the car. And yes, we are shirtless and dancing lol.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRgoNmH01G8&feature=plcp[/youtube]


User avatar
RallyB13
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:30 pm
Car: 2003 Nissan 350z Touring
2004 GMC Sierra 1500 SLT
2011 Toyota Sienna LE V6
2016 Subaru WRX Premium
Contact:

Post

FlatBlackIan wrote:Just for you James, here is proof of our on stage dancing shenanigans.

It is in car video from another rally team. At minute 1:33 you can see the corner that took us out of the race. At minute 11:15 you will see where I finally parked the car. And yes, we are shirtless and dancing lol.
What you can't see is me giving Ian and Chris the finger from the driver's seat. Can't unsee! The goggles, they do nothing!

At least the rest of you get it mostly obscured by the dust that built up on the inside of the windscreen of my car.

Of course, now Chris is co-driving for me at LSPR.

User avatar
IanS
Posts: 10090
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:07 pm
Car: 2002 Subaru WRX, 2010 Subaru Forester XT, 2004 Infiniti G35 Coupe.
Location: Esko, MN
Contact:

Post

So I booted up my computer to pay my entry fee for LSPR, which is less then a month away now, and I figured hey, I should post an update.

First off, I got a package in the mail. Its my sound deadener, which coupled with a false floor on the drivers side, should hopefully prevent my shoes from melting any further. That was getting kind of old.

Awesome guys over at GT Mat (GT Mat on Facebook) Check em out!

Image

Moving right along. I will get to the GT Mat once I can drive the car again lol.

Front end coming together. Headlights re mounted, time for the lip.

Image

Looking good.

Image

Since looking at the body damage was far too depressing, I decided to get to work building the new light bar. I took what I learned from the last setup, and starting putting it to use.

I began by building the lower mount points. I wanted them to be more hidden when the bar was off. I think they turned out nice. I slugged 2 pieces of tubing with nuts, then welded them to the bumper support.

Image

Then I built a frame. Tubing on the bottom, and I reused the old angle iron bar on top.

Image

Image

Then I added some gussets for strength.

Image

Looking good.

Image

I then tabbed backwards to mounts on the core support, and added tabs on the lower portion of the bar for the fog lights.

Image

Lights test mounted. All I need now is lots of finish grinding, and some paint. Everything comes off easy, and in 1 piece.

Image

With my spirits lifted by the sweet lights, Broc and I moved onto the rear quarter. Nurse, 10 blade!

Image

Yep, that is going on the wall.

Image

Took a break from the body damage because this showed up. Lets make her a roller again.

Image

Damper and spring back in. Time to build a new camber arm.

Image

All together now. Lets go for a drive.

Image

Feels good to row through the gears again. Its only been a month, but it feels like longer. Its a bit windy inside though.

Image

Besides the giant hole and funny colors, you almost can't tell it was wrecked.

Image

Time for more cutting. Nurse, 10 blade!!

Image

Hey it kind of fits, sort of.

Image

And switching gears again, can you tell I have ADD? I got some more parts in the mail. Installed a new braided brake hose in the rear. With the system sealed, I busted out my brake line tools and ran new hardlines into the cabin for this little guy.

Image

Willwood adjustable proportioning valve. I have been experiencing a bit of understeer under even light or medium braking and I wanted more rear bias. Hopefully this will help me fine tune the system. This is just a bandaid fix until I can afford a dual master cylinder setup with a balance bar. Until then, hope this makes it better.

And that's where I will leave it off for the evening. Until next time.

User avatar
RallyB13
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:30 pm
Car: 2003 Nissan 350z Touring
2004 GMC Sierra 1500 SLT
2011 Toyota Sienna LE V6
2016 Subaru WRX Premium
Contact:

Post

So, when you installed the proportioning valve in the rear line, you removed the stock proportioning valve(s) from the master cylinder, I hope?

User avatar
IanS
Posts: 10090
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:07 pm
Car: 2002 Subaru WRX, 2010 Subaru Forester XT, 2004 Infiniti G35 Coupe.
Location: Esko, MN
Contact:

Post

RallyB13 wrote:So, when you installed the proportioning valve in the rear line, you removed the stock proportioning valve(s) from the master cylinder, I hope?
The proportioning valve is installed in the front line. My problem stems from something I did much earlier in the build. This was once an ABS car, and the proportioning valve was contained within the ABS block. I goobered up the brake feel by removing it. I am also running the larger HICAS front brakes. I have far too much front brake bias. I can lock the fronts without the rears doing much of anything. Im going to attempt to balance it out. Only time will tell if it works.

User avatar
RallyB13
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:30 pm
Car: 2003 Nissan 350z Touring
2004 GMC Sierra 1500 SLT
2011 Toyota Sienna LE V6
2016 Subaru WRX Premium
Contact:

Post

Ok, this just seems odd to me. You removed all the proportioning valves with the ABS, right?

And you have large front brakes, with (presumably) increased piston area, and hence more fluid movement needed.

I'm assuming stock master cylinder, but it doesn't really matter, as long as it's a normal tandem style master with a fixed bore.

I would expect that to cause much higher than normal pressure to the rears and a wicked bad rear bias, because now you need a longer throw on the master to apply pressure to the fronts, and that's going to mean mean higher pressure on the rears, assuming those haven't charged to be larger.

User avatar
Speedy7_7
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:20 am
Car: 2002 IS300 And 2008 Nissan Versa
Location: Partytown, USA

Post

:inout:

User avatar
IanS
Posts: 10090
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:07 pm
Car: 2002 Subaru WRX, 2010 Subaru Forester XT, 2004 Infiniti G35 Coupe.
Location: Esko, MN
Contact:

Post

RallyB13 wrote:Ok, this just seems odd to me. You removed all the proportioning valves with the ABS, right?

And you have large front brakes, with (presumably) increased piston area, and hence more fluid movement needed.

I'm assuming stock master cylinder, but it doesn't really matter, as long as it's a normal tandem style master with a fixed bore.

I would expect that to cause much higher than normal pressure to the rears and a wicked bad rear bias, because now you need a longer throw on the master to apply pressure to the fronts, and that's going to mean mean higher pressure on the rears, assuming those haven't charged to be larger.
On theory alone I would have agreed with you. Which is why I left it as is initially. I expected to have extra rear bias, which is good for a gravel car. Except its not the case. The Master cylinder is a 3 port design. 2 for the front brakes individually, and a 3rd for the rears. Also, the HICAS brakes use the same piston diameter (they may be the same caliper alltogether). Its the location of it that matters. Its further from the hub centerline, and uses a larger diameter rotor allowing it to apply more brake torque with the same amount of fluid.

The proportioning valve was a cheap solution that will allow me to figure out what I like best.

The next step may be a different master cylinder. I believe there is an option for a 2 port master that is slightly smaller in diameter. This will have the added bonus of a bit more pedal travel, which I wouldn't be against. Currently the pedal is solid as a rock.

User avatar
IanS
Posts: 10090
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:07 pm
Car: 2002 Subaru WRX, 2010 Subaru Forester XT, 2004 Infiniti G35 Coupe.
Location: Esko, MN
Contact:

Post

An update of this weekends progress. LSPR is fast approaching, less then 3 weeks and we will be in Michigan.

Got a package in the mail. Finally time for a roof scoop. Hopefully this should know down the dust in car.

Mocked up for now.

Image

Finally time to fill the hole. Here goes nothing.

Image

Image

Image

Image

With the panel welded on, I took a break and started peeling stickers. I need to pick up some sheet metal to fix the rotted rocker. Looks strange sans all its stickers.

Image

Sawed a few holes in the roof for vents.

Image

Under the scoop.

Image

From the inside.

Image

Thats where I left it for the night. Hope to cap the rocker tomorrow, then its time for bondo, then paint. So close I can taste it.

User avatar
float_6969
Moderator
Posts: 19853
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (too many mods to list)
2015 SV Leaf w/QC & Bose (daily)
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Contact:

Post

Looking good!!! I'm liking the roof scoop too.

User avatar
IanS
Posts: 10090
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:07 pm
Car: 2002 Subaru WRX, 2010 Subaru Forester XT, 2004 Infiniti G35 Coupe.
Location: Esko, MN
Contact:

Post

Lunch time is crunch time, back to work fool.

Welded a new cap onto the rocker panel.

Image

Image

Grindy grindy.

Image

Time to make pretty.

Image

More filler.

Image

Only to sand most of it off.

Image

Image

Image

Round 2 of filler.

Image

Image

More sounding.

Image

Image

Image

Glazing.

Image

Test prime.

Image

Needs a little work still.

Image

Image

Back on all 4s. Time to move her over, and get ready fro paint.

Image

So much sanding.

Image

Paint supplies.

Image

It's a bit dusty.

Image

Tape and paper.

Image

Makeshift paint booth.

Image

Primed.

Image

Image

Pretty colors....

Image

Chuck going to town.

Image

Slow and steady wins the race.

Image

Image

Image

2 coats of paint down.

Image

And 3 coats.

Image

Image

Looks a lot lighter then it really is.

Image

1st coat of clear.

Image

After 3 more coats of clear.

Image

Image

And thats where I left things off for the night. I cranked the heat in the garage so the clearcoat can cure overnight. Need to get back to work tomorrow. I have 3 prep days left before packing up.

Image

Im really liking the color, but I want to see it out of the garage in the sun. At the moment, the color makes me think of the Usui Sil-Eighty from Initial D.

kingbaby
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:13 am
Car: Nissanmobile!
Location: Hawai'i

Post

love the garage work...

User avatar
PapaSmurf2k3
Site Admin
Posts: 23998
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 3:20 pm
Car: 2017 Corvette, 2018 Focus ST, 1993 240sx truck KA Turbo.
Location: Merrimack, NH

Post

How's the finish? Its tough to tell from the pics but it looks like there might be some fish-eye or maybe dust in the paint. Are you going to try buffing it, or say f*** it and run it (because rallycar)?

User avatar
Ajax
Posts: 1643
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:16 pm
Car: 1991 240sx SE
2010 Mazda 5

Post

PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:How's the finish? Its tough to tell from the pics but it looks like there might be some fish-eye or maybe dust in the paint. Are you going to try buffing it, or say f*** it and run it (because rallycar)?
I vote "because rally car". Then when the paint chips or gets scraped, you can just use painter's masking tape to cover it up. Seriously- how did you find the corners of the masking tape to pull it off the car?!?

User avatar
IanS
Posts: 10090
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:07 pm
Car: 2002 Subaru WRX, 2010 Subaru Forester XT, 2004 Infiniti G35 Coupe.
Location: Esko, MN
Contact:

Post

PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:How's the finish? Its tough to tell from the pics but it looks like there might be some fish-eye or maybe dust in the paint. Are you going to try buffing it, or say f*** it and run it (because rallycar)?

There is a lot of dust in the paint. A solid buff will be in order, but there just isn't enough time to allow the clear to cure properly before hitting the stages, so for now, I'll let her buck. In the end though, its a rally car. It will get scratched, it will get dinged, and it will get rocked chipped worse then you can imagine. I have had to replace my class stickers after almost every event because they literally got beat off the car by rocks. The whole number backer and class sticker are now further forward to help prevent this. The size of the front mud flaps has also been increase quite a bit.

Anyways.

Like a kid on Christmas morning. Unwrapping her made me giggle like a kid.

Image

Looking good.

Image

Re-assembled the light bar.

Image

Playing with number backer location.

Image

And applied.

Image

Repainted and installed the bumper grills and front lip.

Image

Discovered that the RR knuckle was tweaked. I couldn't get the tow in to where it needed to be. I was sitting on the wheel while working on the suspension. I got up for a minute to grab something and all of a sudden I lost my seat.

Image


Dropped her down and got her out of the garage. First time outside in her pretty new dress.

Image

Image

Image

Time to finally do something about the heat issue on the drivers side floor. Heres what I am working with.

Image

Cleaned up.

Image

Test fitting a sheet of GTmat, sound deadener. Not only should this cut down on cabin noise a bit, but hopefully will act as insulation to block some of the heat.

Image

And stuck down.

Image

This stuff was super easy to cut and work with, and is reasonably light, It sticks like crazy once you give it a push. I am really excited to see how well it works. You can see in the pictures a few spots above a black spot below the brake pedal. This is material that has been melted off the heal of my shoe. The paint is worn away completely around that area. The foil top on the GT Mat seems really solid. I had planned on putting down a false floor of sorts, but the GT Mat is so robust that I am just going to run it as is. So far its turning out to be a great product.

Image

Thats it for tonight. 1 more full day of working on the car, then its time to pack up. We leave for LSPR Wednesday night.

User avatar
SX APPEAL
Posts: 1345
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:26 am
Car: 06 G35 Coupe 6MT
95 Maxima SE 5MT
Location: Springfield, MO

Post

Great work man. So does this mean we have to call you "Baby Blue Ian" now? :D

User avatar
PapaSmurf2k3
Site Admin
Posts: 23998
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 3:20 pm
Car: 2017 Corvette, 2018 Focus ST, 1993 240sx truck KA Turbo.
Location: Merrimack, NH

Post

Looks great. I had a bit of the same problem on my Miata. I ended up running a heat reflective tape all along the trans tunnel and underside of the vehicle. In fact its the same stuff I wrapped my brake master cylinder reservoir (and lines... and underside of my hood) with on my 240.

If that stuff you've got doesn't end up working out, you can try and use a rear heat shield out of a Nissan NV and stick it to the underside. I can get a part number for you if you need it. Hell, I might even be able to get you a scrapped part that you can cut and work with.

DaniMike
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:55 pm
Car: 1993 240sx, 1996 240sx, 2008 Altima

Post

Looking amazing!!

User avatar
float_6969
Moderator
Posts: 19853
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (too many mods to list)
2015 SV Leaf w/QC & Bose (daily)
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Contact:

Post

Looking good man, keep up the good work!!!

Also, IDK why I missed this before, but the issue you're having with the front brakes won't be easily fixed until you use a non-Nissan master cylinder. The issue is due to how the brake master works. When you push the pedal, the rear brakes don't engage AT ALL. It's setup so that the front's have to build a decent amount of pressure before the rears see ANY pressure. In a race situation, this means WAY too much front bias. It's a terible design IMHO, but I'm sure from a safety standpoint it keeps you from ever spinning the car under braking. The tradeoff being that you plow straight into something instead.

I had to go to a single cylinder MC with my turbo setup, and with Q45 brakes up front, and Z31 rotors and caliper brackets in the rear, I STILL don't have enough rear bias. I have the same bias adjuster as you and I ended up turning it all the way off. I'm going to try going up to some more aggressive pads in the rear next. You can do A LOT with brake bias by just playing with different brands and models of pads.

User avatar
IanS
Posts: 10090
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:07 pm
Car: 2002 Subaru WRX, 2010 Subaru Forester XT, 2004 Infiniti G35 Coupe.
Location: Esko, MN
Contact:

Post

float_6969 wrote:Looking good man, keep up the good work!!!

Also, IDK why I missed this before, but the issue you're having with the front brakes won't be easily fixed until you use a non-Nissan master cylinder. The issue is due to how the brake master works. When you push the pedal, the rear brakes don't engage AT ALL. It's setup so that the front's have to build a decent amount of pressure before the rears see ANY pressure. In a race situation, this means WAY too much front bias. It's a terible design IMHO, but I'm sure from a safety standpoint it keeps you from ever spinning the car under braking. The tradeoff being that you plow straight into something instead.

I had to go to a single cylinder MC with my turbo setup, and with Q45 brakes up front, and Z31 rotors and caliper brackets in the rear, I STILL don't have enough rear bias. I have the same bias adjuster as you and I ended up turning it all the way off. I'm going to try going up to some more aggressive pads in the rear next. You can do A LOT with brake bias by just playing with different brands and models of pads.
This setup actually ended up working pretty well on gravel. I think it would be problematic on tar, but in the loose stuff, I was able to just mash the pedal with the adjuster pulling about 25%of the pressure out of the front brakes. I was finally able to rotate the car pre entry without having to fling the car about to initiate. That being said, the setup is not perfect. I need more resistant front brakes. I was hard glazed the pads early on Saturday, leaving the front brakes very weak. I actually really liked the way it handled at low speeds, but coming down from 100+ MPH was a bit hair raising at times. Even with the tune going south, and being worse then when I initially installed the ITB's, the car is still stunningly fast. That though is a whole other issue entirely. I believe the MAP sensor, or FPR may be to blame. Something changed, and it will take some diag to figure out what.

I will do a full update shortly, but the summary is, we pulled out a 3rd in class, and 8th overall in a 35 car field. It felt good getting on the podium for the first time in this car, and I look forward to many more. She is getting really dialed in, and at this point, the weakest link in the system is now me. The car is capable of leading almost any G2 field, the crew can keep her together with the best of the best, and Dexter is doing a phenomenal job or calling notes and navigating. It all comes down to me, I need to work on my consistency, and my trust in my own skills and the car. I can see without even watching the in car videos where great deal of time lays. I was very wary of medium high speed corners like the one that bit me at Ojibwe. I over slowed for many of them, and lost lots of time. I need to find ways to build my confidence over the off season.

Now Im off to start sifting through video. We shot 50 or so gigabyte of video from many angles, so I have much editing to do.....

User avatar
Ajax
Posts: 1643
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:16 pm
Car: 1991 240sx SE
2010 Mazda 5

Post

Well done Ian!

User avatar
PapaSmurf2k3
Site Admin
Posts: 23998
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 3:20 pm
Car: 2017 Corvette, 2018 Focus ST, 1993 240sx truck KA Turbo.
Location: Merrimack, NH

Post

Can't wait for the video!
How much time was between you and #2?

User avatar
float_6969
Moderator
Posts: 19853
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (too many mods to list)
2015 SV Leaf w/QC & Bose (daily)
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Contact:

Post

Congrats on the Podium finish. Great accomplishment, especially considering how much time you spent on repairing the car.

User avatar
IanS
Posts: 10090
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:07 pm
Car: 2002 Subaru WRX, 2010 Subaru Forester XT, 2004 Infiniti G35 Coupe.
Location: Esko, MN
Contact:

Post

PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:Can't wait for the video!
How much time was between you and #2?
Less then 2 minutes, between Jim Scray in his Datsun 510 and I. Less then 6. minutes between myself and Multi time national champion, and world famous rally school owner/lead instructor Tim O'Neil. With a different rear end ratio, a tune, and more skill on my part, top spot is well within reach.

User avatar
breadbox
Posts: 8550
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:09 pm
Car: Red 89 240sx,Black 89 Koop, White 84 720 4x4KC
Location: Va Bch

Post

Nice Congrats. I dig the blue.

User avatar
DeXteR
Posts: 2702
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:01 pm
Car: 14 Titan Pro4X
05 Xterra OR
92 300ZX Slicktop
94 Sentra RS Rally Car
Location: Beulah, MI
Contact:

Post

First off, if you weren't following Finnish Fury on Facebook, you're getting all your news later than the cool kids. You're also missing out on some awesome pictures of the team from the event. You really should be liking us on Facebook to get the best information before it makes it's way to Nico.

https://www.facebook.com/FinnishFury

That being said, the best stories, the most in depth information, and more behind the scenes stuff is here. So you're still in the right place. I just want you to know that you can get a good fix over there as well.

So here's the adventure from the silly seat side of things:

LSPR 2012 was a great time. We all got off to a rough start to the weekend between my crew having to go back to Marquette on Thursday after almost getting to L'Anse on Thursday (3 hour loss of time) and Ian's crew finding out the car had serious part throttle issues, getting a really late start, forgetting the trailer spare 20 minutes out, and other stuff Wednesday night/ Thursday morning.

Thursday it rained all day. I think I heard 2+" of rain was accumulated over a 24 hour period. The weather forecast called for a mostly dry weekend so we were all really hoping it would let up in time for the stages to dry out. Anyway, Thursday is the day everyone gets checked-in and registered. Camp Ian arrived in Houghton around 1pm and got everyone registered at Rally HQ. I know they went to FY Racing to get some much-needed fresh gravel tires installed. I got into town around 3pm and got my camp checked-in to our hotel and went to Rally HQ to get myself registered. From there I went to meet up with the crew where they were staying to get my notes before we all went to Tech to get the car and gear inspected. The car was still being pretty fussy at this point, but otherwise all is well. The rally odometer which had been "fixed" was "broken" again, so we didn't really bother with calibration.

The shakedown stage was at the airport in Hancock. I totally forgot where this was and got us turned around and off track right away. Better now than later. We made it eventually and Ian made two trips around and the course. It was a sloppy, soupy mess. After that we all went our separate ways for the evening.

I had a nice dinner with my wife, sister-in-law, and niece since it would be the last time they see me for any quality time until the weekend is over. From there I buried myself in the notes for about 4 hours preparing them for the weekend. I had to make sure all the pages for both the Route Book and the Stage Notes were accounted for and organized everything to make switching between the two seamless while in the car. I also highlighted anything that may be worth emphasizing while we were on stage.

Friday I slept in a little bit, had a mediocre hotel breakfast and got myself ready for Parc Expose. I was browsing through the rules and looking at how many coefficients I had(fancy way of saying "skill points") when I decided I should probably go attend the novice meeting. After all, this was only my third rally. I was late, but didn't really miss anything. Come to find out, I didn't need to attend anyway, so I pretty much wasted 2 hours of that morning. Oh well - I figured it was better to be safe than sorry.

Since the night before, the crew (Broc, Cale, and John) was trying to get the car as ready as possible for the weekend. They ended up finding a fuel leak which helped increase the car's economy tremendously. The car still had some part throttle issues, but it would have to do. When Ian pulled into Parc, John was at the laptop trying to get some last-minute tuning done. It started sleeting/snowing at Parc Expose just before the drivers meeting. After that, we pretty much jumped in the car and started the race.

Stage 1 and 2 were held at the Moyle Gravel pit again. It's kind of a sad attempt at a super special stage, but it's just too spread out and flat to put a ton of spectators someplace where they could see a lot of action. This was the first time Ian was racing since he offed and wrecked at Ojibwe, so he was a bit reserved. At the very end of the stage was a jump that was NOT in the notes. We hit it pretty good and when we came down, the front camber dissapeared. The "transit" back to service (and boy are we glad there was a service immediately after stage 1) was very wet with huge water holes. Blue smoke was rolling out of both front fenders. Remember those new tires that were just installed - the two in the front were pretty much junk now. The inner sidewalls were rubbing on the coilovers so much that there was a thumb-size groove carved into them.

The crew frantically pulled the wheels and made adjustments. There may have been some shady repairs made at this point in time, but I tried not paying a whole lot of attention as I was more focused on reminding them how little time we had left. Everything came together with time to spare and we made our way to Stage 2 while the crew began the journey to Covington Service.

Stage 2 came and went without incident. Fortunately the repairs made to the front suspension held up; but with a long transit ahead of us, we were definitely taking it easy this time around and made sure not to crush the jump at the end of the stage.

At Covington, the crew made some adjustments to the rear suspension ride height and gave fuel to the stewards to take to Kenton. Since there was going to be over 100 miles of stage and transit between service, they set up a fuel depot in Kenton that we would use after stages 4 & 7.

I forgot to mention that we started the rally in the 8th position (or so). This worked to our advantage as we were far enough back in the pack that the roads were getting pretty well swept of the loose stuff, but far enough ahead that we weren't seeing tore up roads until the second passing. We ran every stage twice, so we did eventually get the tore up roads, but again, not as bad as the guys in the back of the pack. Our fantastic starting position was all thanks to Ian getting second place in the Open Light class back at Sno*Drift at the beginning of the season. The speed factor he earned from that race put us way ahead of our competition. It's a nice little loophole that we are more than happy to take advantage of.

Anyways, most of the stages after our first service in Covington run together for me. I just remember there being a few hairy moments throughout the night. Ian cleaned out the edge of a ditch with the rear of the car at one point. There was an off camber jump that we hit hard and I was definitely sitting much higher than Ian before we came back to earth. We were completely off the road at one point in time with all four tires in a ditch at speed for a good 50 feet or so before Ian pulled us out of it. There was also a railroad crossing just after a sharp right that we almost hit the rails. Coming into the corner, the car just wouldn't turn on the loose surface and we were far outside. Ian pulled it back on just before the crossing.

We also had a close call when we got to our second or third service. The bolts that hold the housing and guts of the alternator together had started backing themselves out. I think we lost one of them all together. they tightened them up and didn't really give it much thought the rest of the rally.


More later...
Last edited by DeXteR on Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
DeXteR
Posts: 2702
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:01 pm
Car: 14 Titan Pro4X
05 Xterra OR
92 300ZX Slicktop
94 Sentra RS Rally Car
Location: Beulah, MI
Contact:

Post

If my memory serves me correctly, we rolled into Covington after 1am at the end of the rally. I want to say that there were times that day when we were in 2nd place in Group 2 only behind Tim O'Neil. It might not have lasted very long, but it was a pretty awesome accomplishment. So, the crew gathered up the fuel cans and loaded the car up in preparation to travel an hour south and east from service to fuel the car at the nearest source of E85. Ian and I were chauffeured an hour back to Houghton in his mother-in-law's car driven by John. Ian's wife and her mother came to spectate and was generous enough to let us use the car to get back and try to get some sleep. I pretty much went straight to bed when we returned, but Ian stayed up to download video and do other things other than sleep. It must have been close to 3am when we got back to Houghton.

The next morning came far too early. I think I was up by 7am to eat another less than amazing hotel breakfast before I woke my wife up to take me to the car and crew down the road at the other hotel. I arrived to some pretty bad news - no fuel. Broc and Cale drove to Ishpeming just to find out that the pumps were shut off when the gas station closed earlier in the evening. All eyes turned to my wife at that point with looks of hopeful anticipation. My wife didn't really give it a whole lot of thought as we didn't really have much other choice. Ishpeming was about a 3-hour round trip from Houghton and back to L'Anse where service would be that day. So my wife went back to rustle up her sister and niece for the morning's adventure.

We loaded up in the service truck with the car and started the 45 minute trip to L'Anse for Parc Expose. We hit a Pay 'N' Spray for a quick wash on the way. Not much new to report, we were still in good position, but the Group 2 competition was close. Some of the top cars in the race had retired due to fires or mechanical problems; so as some of the faster cars moved in front of us, we didn't really lose any placement because of the retirements. The weather looked promising and we were hoping to lay down some good times.

As we completed Stage 2 and were on our way to the first service, I was trying to figure out if we would have enough fuel to make it another two stages to the next service if my wife didn't make it back in time with our E85. It was going to be REALLY close. I called my wife and according to the GPS, she was going to make it to service at the same time we were supposed to be leaving for transit. Ian and I were struggling with whether or not it might be worth the penalty to arrive late or to take our chances of possibly running out of fuel on the way to the next service. As time was running out, we decided to go for it and passed my wife coming into service as we were getting in line to leave.

As we got there, one of our competitors informed us that service was extended a bit because the first cars weren't leaving for another 15 or 20 minutes or something... Whatever, we'll take it. We flew back to fuel depot and topped off. It was definitely a high stress situation for everyone. My wife was flying back to L'Anse smelling E85 for over an hour trying to avoid getting sick or getting busted by the up north po. As it turned out, we didn't have as much time as we thought, but we managed to lose a couple positions in the starting order but didn't accrue any penalties because the time control was kind of messed up. Again, whatever, we'll take it.

Again, the stages really ran together for me. I was focused on calling the notes and keeping us on time. We diWe didn't have anything exciting happen - we stayed on course all day, we hit some pretty high speeds, we hit some pretty good jumps too. Throughout the day, our closest competition was improving more than we were and we fell a few places behind. There were a few more retirements throughout the day. When all was said and done, only 28 of the 35 cars that entered would complete the rally. Even with nearly perfect conditions, LSPR is one tough rally. I think the worst retirement we saw was the BMW right in front of us (both in standings and position) hit a stump on the last part of the last stage. Such a terrible way to end your weekend... We really felt for them. But we knew it was to our advantage.

The last stage pulls out facing the sunset. It really is a beautiful site to behold in the great north of Michigan. It was just like last year, but it felt a little different. Every time we checked the times or the board our lead seemed to be slipping. The pressure was certainly on all day and we could only hope that our efforts could keep the podium in reach. I'm not going to lie, I didn't have a good feeling on the transit back to L'Anse at the end of the day. We fought hard and it just didn't feel like it was enough. Add to that, we started getting on odd noise from under the car that we thought was either an exhaust leak or a belt squeal of some sort.

We were in for a bit of a surprise when we got to the finish time control - they gave us another time card for transit back to Houghton and a Parc Ferme. We were planning on dragging the car back on a trailer. So we got back in the car and headed for Houghton. Remember that odd noise? Well it got worse and then would go away. Then it came back once and was followed by a "clank" "clunk" and all the warning lights came on in the cluster. We lost the belt, the alternator, or a pulley. We ran until the temps started rising and we pulled over. Fortunately, someone behind us was kind enough to stop and lend a hand. Ian got out the tow strap and I convinced them to flat tow us back to Houghton. We dropped the car a block or so before the final time control and drove the car into Parc Ferme under it's own power. We had officially completed LSPR 2012.

I didn't go straight to the awards banquet, but when I got there, Broc and Cale told me I needed to go check the scoreboard and make sure everything looked all right. It looked like we ended up in third place in Group 2 - I almost didn't believe it until the presentations when they called Ian and I up for the 3rd place trophies in Group 2. It was pretty awesome. We certainly couldn't have done it without the awesome crew who kept the car together and my wife who saved our tails. I'd also like to thank Ian for having me be a part of his team and his wife for allowing him to pursue this crazy dream. I look forward to doing this again real soon.
Last edited by DeXteR on Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
IanS
Posts: 10090
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:07 pm
Car: 2002 Subaru WRX, 2010 Subaru Forester XT, 2004 Infiniti G35 Coupe.
Location: Esko, MN
Contact:

Post

Awesome write up Dex. Wish I had the energy to do that at the moment.

I will make a few additions.

I am still not sure what was and is causing the driveability issues. The car idles fine, runs rich when cruising, and absolutely refuses to accelerate above 4000 RPM at anything less the 80% throttle. It felt almost exactly like a soft cut rev limit. At WOT it would pull to redline, but was very rich, and not making the power it should. I can't wait to get a legit tune in this car, it has so much potential. We were able to make a few changes to the tune to get it better at wide open, but it still felt sluggish all weekend save for 1 stage. It ran nearly perfectly on 1 stage Saturday afternoon, and its obvious which by looking at the times.

Our "shady repairs at the first service consisted of readjusting the camber via the slotted ears on the front dampers and then tightening them to 150 linear Broc pounds. A more permanant solution to the problem is in the works.

Our offs on Friday night were a bit hairy. Road conditions were less then stellar. The cars in front of us had swept 2 clean paths in the road. Getting outside of these tire tracks meant riding on loose rocks on top of hard pack. Imagine trying to drive on marbles. Due to all the cars ahead of us being AWD, their lines are significantly different, and there was a healthy learning curve. This was compounded by the problems with the tune that meant it was all or nothing. I could not feather, or use part throttle, it was WOT or dead in the water. We actually did extremely well under the circumstances.

That being said, I need to make some changes, meditate or something.

I really didn't realize it until we were on stage how much the wreck at Ojibwe had scared me. For some reason in the dark I was able to get over it for the most part, but on Saturday things were much harder. I'm not sure if it was the 2 hours of sleep I got the night before, or the faster, but with more technical section stages during that day, but I had a much harder time putting it to the back of my mind so I could focus. The biggest effect was a lack of commitment to many of the high speed corners. I couldn't maintain confidence in myself enough to commit to 5s at the top of third gear, even though I know the car is capable of doing it. Its something I will have to find a way to work on during the off season.

All that being said, Saturday was some great racing and I had an absolute blast. So far the videos are looking awesome, so I'm going to go back to plugging away at them. Hopefully I can get the Friday compilation up this weekend.

User avatar
DeXteR
Posts: 2702
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:01 pm
Car: 14 Titan Pro4X
05 Xterra OR
92 300ZX Slicktop
94 Sentra RS Rally Car
Location: Beulah, MI
Contact:

Post

FlatBlackIan wrote:Our "shady repairs at the first service consisted of readjusting the camber via the slotted ears on the front dampers and then tightening them to 150 linear Broc pounds. A more permanant solution to the problem is in the works.


You either forgot or didn't see then... Next time you take that damper off the hub, I think you'll remember. Maybe I saw it wrong, but I believe I saw some "reinforcement" of some sort there. Doesn't really matter, it worked whatever was done.
FlatBlackIan wrote:For some reason in the dark I was able to get over it for the most part, but on Saturday things were much harder. I'm not sure if it was the 2 hours of sleep I got the night before, or the faster, but with more technical section stages during that day, but I had a much harder time putting it to the back of my mind so I could focus. The biggest effect was a lack of commitment to many of the high speed corners. I couldn't maintain confidence in myself enough to commit to 5s at the top of third gear, even though I know the car is capable of doing it. Its something I will have to find a way to work on during the off season.
Trees don't look so big and thick in the dark. Also, you and the crew DEFINITELY need to get more sleep on rally weekends. Having your minds and bodies fresh and alert is only going to help us all perform better.

On some of the faster turns, especially on the higher speed stages, I would emphasize a "+" or call the corner a degree faster when I could tell you weren't committing to the corner. You need to find a way to rebuild your confidence. That by itself will make a big improvement.

User avatar
SX APPEAL
Posts: 1345
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:26 am
Car: 06 G35 Coupe 6MT
95 Maxima SE 5MT
Location: Springfield, MO

Post

DeXteR wrote: Trees don't look so big and thick in the dark.
...is that what she said? :chuckle:


Return to “240sx General Discussion”