Ring Gear Bolts PITA (Differential)

[RCA]

Its late and no time

Ring gear bolts dont want to cooperate.My impact gun wont cut it. Any suggestions?

:::

[RCA]

Ring gear bolts dont want to cooperate.My impact gun wont cut it. Any suggestions?

[moulton712]

what i have done in the past when i can't make them budge is to get 2 pipes. put one in in where one of the axle cups go. then use a regular 3/8 ratchet with your 17 mm socket. use the other pipe on the rachet to get more torque. they'll come out.

if you've never taken the diff apart before, when you get those bolts off, make sure you keep good track of how you took the internals apart.

[r3v_v3ng3]

Craftsman 18 volt Cordless 1/2 in. Square Drive Impact Wrench 26825

or a bench vise and use it between woods (hopefully you'll get lucky because it may just spin it around)

[RCA]

Yay! Some one responded.

I bought my compressor and it came with a Craftsmen Impact which I hope doesn't have a high tq rating and so I purchased an Ingersoll Impact gun rated to a suposed 1000 ft.lbs/tq so if that doesn't do it I will cry myself to sleep.

Does any one have advise just incase my Ingersoll doesn't work out...?

[gumby74]

If the pumpkin is out of the car and you do not have a bench vise:I had to do this myself, but if you can get someone to help, do that. I installed the diff into the pumpkin (helical that I placed into a spare pumpkin I had) Using my trusty Craftsman 17mm, or is it 19mm? any way, I placed the wrench on one bolt head and used a hammer to rap that wrench handle. I used a steady, controlled stroke. Not quite Hulk smash, more like driving a nail in 2 strokes kinda force. It was not pretty, but it worked. Remember these bolts should be only torqued to 112 or so ft. lbs. but they have Lock tite. Thats what you are trying to free up.You want to use a hammer because of the sudden burst of force similar to an impact gun, as opposed to using a ratchet/wrench by itself where the force is built up more slowly. I hope the air gun works for you though.Remember when re-installing to use a drop of blue Lock tite.

[RCA]

Your the man Gumby!I tried breaker bar and hammer combo but I was holding down the diff with my body weight but the diff moved to much to have the twisting energy of the hammer blows affectivley break those bolts.

[gumby74]

Yeah, that is normally where your friend would come in. Things are so much easier when you can focus on that one thing.After loosening a couple of bolts, I realized that my Bronco sitting on 38" tires could be used to wedge the pumpkin on the ground. Everything went soooo much faster after that.Proper hammer stroke is a legitimate skill!!Lastly, I use wrenches specifically for the hammer method. The box end sits properly around the fastener whereas a ratchet or breaker use sockets which offset the torque. And ratchets have internal teeth that absorb most of the force or may give rendering the tool useless.Sounds kind of dumb now that I re-read my post, but trust me wrenches work better with hammers.Or you can use a second wrench over the primary one as an extension. Don't know if you are familiar with that little trick.

[RCA]

I realized that my Bronco sitting on 38" tires could be used to wedge the pumpkin on the ground. Everything went soooo much faster after that.

You ran over your diff housing? Haha

Lastly, I use wrenches specifically for the hammer method. The box end sits properly around the fastener whereas a ratchet or breaker use sockets which offset the torque. And ratchets have internal teeth that absorb most of the force or may give rendering the tool useless.Sounds kind of dumb now that I re-read my post, but trust me wrenches work better with hammers.

Makes sences. I am gunna try my Craftsmen 17mm box wrench. Unfortunatley its a ratcheting box wrench...

Or you can use a second wrench over the primary one as an extension. Don't know if you are familiar with that little trick.

I do know of the trick just haven't tried it yet.

Great tips from all of you guys!I am gunna try the "2 pipes" trick that Moulton712 mentioned

[moulton712]

it works. luckily i just used the pipes from my jack. it's also a one person job. i've put in tons of welded diffs

[RCA]

it works. luckily i just used the pipes from my jack. it's also a one person job. i've put in tons of welded diffs

Do you have any pics of you using this technique?

I get it for the most part but I know I will mess it up some how =/

[Vegascorbin]

Just remember that it is not a hammer it is a Poundometer. A precision adjustment tool

(Stolen from sombody's signature that I don't remember their name)

[gumby74]

The things I have run over with my rig...

[RCA]

Well new question...I am replacing my oil seal (seals where the out put shafts pop out of the pumkin). While removing the seal I found a circuar spring and was wondering:What is it's offical name?What is it?What is it's use?and Where does it belong? (because it just fell while removing my oil seals, so I dont know where it belongs)

If you cant picture what I am saying just imagine a spring that creates a circle.Thanks in advance

[r3v_v3ng3]

pretty sure it belongs to the seal. once the spring expands it helps it seal while keeping tension to the rubber

[RCA]

^ So it should be all one unit? The spring is built into the seal assy?

I assume this because:A)

pretty sure it belongs to the seal. once the spring expands it helps it seal while keeping tension to the rubber

B)after going to courtesy nissan parts I couldn't find this spring, but I could find the seals.

Any thoughts?

[r3v_v3ng3]

^ So it should be all one unit? The spring is built into the seal assy?

yes i believe so, the spring is built inside the seal assy. how did you take out the seals? you probably pryed it out and punctured the rubber and the spring came out.

[RCA]

^ Well I definitly wasn't being carefull when I removed it. The seal was dry and cracking. I have replacements and they feel nothing like the other one.So I should just replace the seals and leave it at that huh?

Is there a special way to install them?

[gumby74]

You are correct sir. The spring rides on the inside lip of the seal to maintain constant tension. In fact most all oil seals I have seen have this spring on the inside to include front and rear main seals and transmission output seal.Definitely go with new oem seals. I picked up a pair at the local parts store, and they were not as thick or beefy as factory seals. Had to pay twice as much at the dealership, but oh well.As for the install, get you a socket with the same diameter as the seal, slightly smaller. Place the seal in by hand and try and press it in as even as you can. Then using the socket and a light (preferably rubber) mallet, tap her in. Try and recall how far the original seal sat. And remember, press it in as flush as possible, otherwise it will leak.

[RCA]

gumby74 & r3v_v3ng3 FTMFW! There TheY goes again to save the day! Thanks allot guys!

Also as you can tell I took some time off this project and like the dumbass noob I am I lost track of which "carrier bearing" is left and which is right. Also lost track of shims. My guess is the side where the ring gear teeth point to have the two shims (part#s: 38453 and 38454) The other side has one.

But the carrier bearing have specific numbers on them. Can any one differentiate which one is left and right based on these numbers?

THANKS AGAIN NICO GUYS AND GALS

[r3v_v3ng3]

wow. well i don't think the pic is right. it should be the opposite, the gear teeth facing the bearing should have 1 while the other side is 2 shims, the reason is that the pinion gear is small and it needs 2 shims where the teeth is not facing, that way it will mesh with the r&p gear correctly. the only thing that i would be worry about is what size is the small shims. are they the same thickness? if so then you shouldn't have any problem putting it back.

also the way you can tell the thicker shim is on the wrong side is that when you turn it, its not really meshing cause it would be like 1/4 inch away. hope i made sense

[RCA]

wow. well i don't think the pic is right. it should be the opposite, the gear teeth facing the bearing should have 1 while the other side is 2 shims, the reason is that the pinion gear is small and it needs 2 shims where the teeth is not facing, that way it will mesh with the r&p gear correctly. the only thing that i would be worry about is what size is the small shims. are they the same thickness? if so then you shouldn't have any problem putting it back.

also the way you can tell the thicker shim is on the wrong side is that when you turn it, its not really meshing cause it would be like 1/4 inch away. hope i made sense

I was looking through the videos I made when I cracked my pumpkin open and for the record...The side where the ring gear teeth "point" to have:One thin shim and one shim (widest) for the diff bearings.

The side where the ring gear teeth doesn't "point" to have:One thick shim then, one think shim, finally one shim (widest) for the diff bearings.

OK GUYs here is my dilemma my carrier bearing and the bearings on my housing look worn. Havent really worked on a diff before but if these were journal bearings I would DEFINITLY replace them. I just wanted to get you guys expertise. Maybe diff bearings and engine bearings are diffrent.

THIS IS THE SIDE WITH ONLY ONE THIN SHIM AND THE DIFF BEARING SHIM. PLEASE TELL ME THAT THE MISSING CHUNK OF PUMKIN IS NORMAL!

Thanks in advance guys!

[gumby74]

I could be wrong, but there should be a race that goes there, and then the journal bearings ride inside that.did that make sense?

[RCA]

I emailed you out of despiration. LMAO, you can just delete that =/

IDK what a "race" is but I can tell you when I opened my diff I saw the carrier bearings (or CB = first two pictures) holding the diff+shims in place. When I removed the CB all that was left was shims and diff. I removed the output shafts and just pryed out the guts and that was it...

Do you think the bearings are re-usable?

[gumby74]

A race is basically a ring of hardened steel or a specific type of metal that is compatible with the bearings to maximize lifespan and minimize wear. A race makes more sense than forging out housings of specific more expensive materials, and are much easier to tolerance over a large number of units.In this case the ring would be perfectly square on the outside (think rod or main bearing) and be beveled on the inside to accomodate the angle of the roller bearing cluster. The details of which are not important. What IS important is verifying wether or not the R200 diff uses races on the ends. Which I am pretty confident it does. Do you have a picture of the diff itself as it sits right now?Both the bearing cluster and the race are replaceable through the dealership for certain, and MAYBE through your local parts store.

okay, I was eyeballing that FSM scan posted earlier. The roller bearings are sealed (race is part of the bearing) part #38440. The race itself should not spin, however the bearings should, and very freely at that. There should be no binding.That bearing cap that you are holding is just that. It simply secures the bearing race in place. The bearings themselves should be the only thing spinning. If I am wrong, somebody please correct me as I see no reason for a fellow NICO member to suffer any damages an account of my dumb ***.

[RCA]

This picture is what I think you mean by "race". The yellow arrow is pointed to the race. CORRECT?



This picture is the roller bearing cluster?

And after reading your post I realize that the "cap" is worn. But the cap will not be handling the rotational energy of the diff. That job is up to the "race" (yellow arrow). The race is in great shape. It came with the new diff, as well as all shims and output shafts. So I think I am ready to go?

Also will the correct placement of the shims prevent me from messing up the backlash? Or is backlash something I shouldn't worry about?

[gumby74]

Now we are cooking with butter.Yes you are correct on both counts. I know my descriptions may be kinda' vague, unfortunately I freely admit that I lack the "vocabulary" to communicate my understandings at times. Irrelevent.As far as the shims go, assuming that you re-assemble your diff with all shims on the correct sides and everything properly torqued and what not, you SHOULD be fine.I stress the word should. Myself and quite a few people that I know have swapped out diffs using only stock parts and assemblies with no worries what-so-ever. I however assembled my helical in to a spare pumpkin I had laying around checked and double checked my work, then I took the whole assembly to the gear shop that does work on my 4x4 to verify the gear mesh. Everything was all good and very well within spec. It was cheap insurance costing me only a case of Miller High Life (wtf?!?) and a box of fried chicken.All that said, you SHOULD be fine, however, to do it right, you will have to verify that your clearances are within spec. You already know what I would do. Good luck and have a safe 4th o' July weekend.

[RCA]

NICE! I LOVE BUTTER!

Any way, your vocab is way better then mine. I am glad i created this thread. I wish I could change the name of it to...S15 Helical Diff Install Questions

But thanks again every body, I will proceed with my project with confidence, and I will be taking it to a transmission shop like 2mins from my house. I will make sure to bring beer and fried chicken =)

gumby74

[RCA]

Sorry guys but why doesnt these fit?I always figure I am doing something wrong and I ask you guys.I am starting to think I recieved the wrong part =/

Which one is it?

[gumby74]

If I remember right, the little lip thing goes to the outside. Compare the new seal to the old seal, they should obviously be pretty damn close in size. I think only the R230 housing runs different seals, so all R200 seals (output shaft, pinion gear) are the same part # for all years. I THINK.That being said, make sure the bore is clean and free of burs, place new seal as flush as possible and using a big enough socket, gently tap her in.