Revisiting (and defending) the PT Cruiser

[Speedy7_7]

I will agree with most of your points Jesda, but I have to say one thing.

The PT Cruiser is at the top of my list as one of, if not THE worst built/engineered vehicle of the last decade. I hate them, because working on them is a huge pain due to endless engineering oversights, odd angles, and lack of space in the wrong places. Yet, at the same time, I love them because so many parts wear out on a consistent basis.

The suspension, while acceptable on the Neon, was never meant to carry the heft of the PT. Bushings, ball joints, tie rods, struts, shocks, sway bar links and watts links all fail laughably often. The water pumps burn up before timing belt replacement is even recomended, while the power steering systems seem to leak perpetual. Not to mention the chrome wheels that often wont hold air after only 3 or 4 years due to the plating peeling off.

Chrysler should have stuck with the original neon. Stupid cheap, stupid simple, and darn reliable, even for a chrysler. They had their issues, but almost everything was a cheap fix. The PT on the other hand, tried very hard to be upscale, as did the newer neons, and this bit them in the butt.

Chrysler should have been left to die. Not just because of the PT Loser, but for numerous other reasons.

I'm going to agree with Ian, not only because of the fantastic "handie" he gave me last night but also because I have repossessed a ton of them. Repossession is a great way to see vehicles at their worst. The PT cruiser is one of the worst cars I have ever consistently seen. So many things fail, I had to drive one that scared me enough to take back roads all the way from the owners house to our shop (about 30 miles) I was genuinely afraid to do 50. The steering had so much play that you had to guess how far to turn and then wait until everything snapped over. You could drive arrow straight with the wheel turned 90 degrees.

I've repossessed alot of later model Chrysler vehicles, I wouldn't give one to charity.

* Side note: I really like the Cummins Diesel, but I wouldn't put my family in a Dodge Truck to escape a volcano.

[Jesda]

I wonder if the added weight causes the same kind of additional wear on the HHR vs the Cobalt?

No, nevermind. I'm almost bored at the thought of it.

[Jesda]

But a closer comparison for the Neon would have been the B13. The B14 isn't in the same class as a Neon.

Perhaps thats true since the B13 and Neon both had puppy dog faces, light weight, and scrappy personalities. The neon came after the B13 but Chrysler's smaller cars were always one generation behind.


I despise everything about the B14. It was the beginning of a rapid decline for Nissan, one that almost resulted in Daimler-Chrysler-Nissan. Nissan begged for the Germans to take over, but It was the few Chrysler execs left at Daimler who fortunately said "Hell no."

[AZhitman]

...because they (Chrysler) knew they couldn't afford to comply with Japanese criteria for engineering. Remember, D-C were already in their OWN tailspin. Fact.

B13 was definitely a better car (by far) than the B14. I'm meh on the 14, but it's got a hell of a track record (literally) and was a great platform for several sanctioning bodies.

[AZhitman]

I wonder if the added weight causes the same kind of additional wear on the HHR vs the Cobalt?

No, nevermind. I'm almost bored at the thought of it.

My poor brother got shafted by Chevy - Paid over $20K for a new HHR the year they came out. Little did he know they'd be a $9995 sucker-bet loss-leader 9 months later.

[IanS]

I wonder if the added weight causes the same kind of additional wear on the HHR vs the Cobalt?

You better believe it. Those things eat through rear shocks and front control arm bushings like they are going out of style.

[Jesda]

...because they (Chrysler) knew they couldn't afford to comply with Japanese criteria for engineering. Remember, D-C were already in their OWN tailspin. Fact.

None of that really motivated any executive level decisions, and you have the timeline wrong. This took place in 1998, before Ghosn and Renault arrived in 1999. There was no D-C when Nissan called Daimler in 1998 begging to be saved. There was only Daimler-Benz. Schrempp was sniffing all over the globe looking for things to buy and glorify himself, like a wealthy suburban wife with her husband's credit card.

After Daimler-Benz and Chrysler made their intentions public, Nissan continued calling Stuttgart, begging for support. Jurgen Schrempp wanted Nissan to be part of his global automotive empire, but Nissan had little to offer as a small second-tier Japanese auto brand, so Chrysler took priority, at least until the details of the merger were sorted out. Schrempp, meanwhile, kept lines of communication with Nissan open without Chrysler's knowledge. Nissan was still hoping to join Chrysler and Daimler in merger from hell, but Chrysler (and most Daimler shareholders) stood firm and rejected the idea.

Chrysler was making billions without batting an eye, and the industry was envious of its manufacturing efficiency, short development times, and per-unit profits. [No one envied their poor quality control.] Daimler wanted a piece of it, badly. Things didn't get messy at Chrysler until most of Chrysler's top management quit. Daimler butted in and tried to change the way the Chrysler did business, especially its marketing and pricing, even while it was turning a profit. Billions of dollars in income in just a couple quarters hemorrhaged into hundreds of millions in losses that continued until the mid 2000s, at which point Chrysler's profits were used to fund the development of cars like today's Mercedes ML, the new E-class, and the SLS AMG. Chrysler got... a Sebring.

Nissan's quality was high compared to most of the industry but they had symbiotic relationships with suppliers where, in several cases, Nissan paid more than the asking price for parts. The idea was to maintain the health of its Japanese suppliers, but it came at Nissan's expense.

Imagine Nissan today calling Magna Steyr and having this conversation:

Nissan: We want door panels. We'll give you ten bucks a piece.
Magna: We want 11 dollars.
Nissan: No, we'll give you 15. Its for your own good.
Magna: Oh, okay. Sign here, dummy.

The Japanese love big symbiotic conglomerates. Single-minded bureaucratic organizations are effective at certain stages of growth, but it makes change and adjustment damn near impossible when the sh*t hits the fan, thus the reason Japan has been in a decades-long recession. Imagine America's series of boneheaded stimulus packages confined and applied to an island nation -- that's Japan's economic policies in a nutshell. Its also funny how we didn't learn a darn thing from Japan's asset bubble.


Throughout the last decade, Nissan and Daimler continued talking. This is why Nissan and Daimler now have technology and sharing agreements. This is why several future Nissans and Infinitis will by powered by Mercedes engines, for better or worse (likely worse). It didn't come out of nowhere -- the events were set in motion during the Clinton era.

[AZhitman]

These are the words I type when I'm shutting the hell up.

I'll expect you to expand on that as an op-ed piece for the homepage. I'll send you bacon.

[MinisterofDOOM]

+1. If memory serves, the T-Bird was designed to compete against the Corvette. They were both small roadsters/coupes with a V8 (though the Corvette's cheapest model came with an I6, originally).

Actuall, the Vette was I6 only for the first two years. Wasn't until 55 that it got a V8.

[Ace2cool]

+1. If memory serves, the T-Bird was designed to compete against the Corvette. They were both small roadsters/coupes with a V8 (though the Corvette's cheapest model came with an I6, originally).

Actuall, the Vette was I6 only for the first two years. Wasn't until 55 that it got a V8.

Definitely beat me to that. I got tied up in Jesda's awesome.

[IanS]

I wonder if the added weight causes the same kind of additional wear on the HHR vs the Cobalt?

No, nevermind. I'm almost bored at the thought of it.

You should ask me about the Ford Transit Connect, which is just a huge Focus.

[Jesda]

I wonder if the added weight causes the same kind of additional wear on the HHR vs the Cobalt?

No, nevermind. I'm almost bored at the thought of it.

You should ask me about the Ford Transit Connect, which is just a huge Focus.

That I'm curious about. I know the Euros use them religiously for work. Ford had to have beefed it up, right?

[Mr1der]

everyone seems to rave about them but if we know anything about the British, they know nothing about cars. Or palatable food.

[IanS]

That I'm curious about. I know the Euros use them religiously for work. Ford had to have beefed it up, right?

They did beef it up, and fords engine is much better suited at hauling the additional weight when compared to chrysler or chevy, but some of the pickup points on the suspension take some heavy abuse.

I have only seen a few, but they were all wearing tires out prematurely. That is almost always a sign of suspension not cut out to carry the heft of a vehicle. This could also be exacerbated by fords poor choice in OE tires (continental). Only time will tell.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Ford, especially recently, has been making some really oddball OE tire choices. Crummy Hankook all seasons are factory equipment on a few of their models. Dealers also push Hankooks as replacement tires, too.

[HashiriyaS14]

The Forte 5-door is seriously good looking in person.


I always sorta liked the PT Cruiser, horrible vinyl appliques aside.

It was vaguely cool for like 2-3 years...they just needed to change it up and they never did.


I <3 the HHR, especially the SS Panel Van. It's totally mental....an econobox van/wagon/suburban/thing with basically no windows, a turbocharger, no-lift shifting, for like $0. So cool.