Review my Emanage maps

[smokey8611]

Well i found a couple emanage maps online, plus some people sent me there own maps.

I just needed a nice map so my tuner who has never used emanage has something to look at while my car is on the dyno. If yall see any problems with the maps, please post up. O the timing map is from the ultimate



Any help will be much appreciated.

Also i will post the .gsc files as well. I found someone who *said* they cracked the emanage KA-T map. Dont know if its true, but I will post it up. Use at your own risk

[MarkEmark]

Bump...this is pertinent information for me too, because while I don't have an e-manage, I have a JWT ECU that is far too conservative with its timing...I'm interested in how advanced I can get the timing WOT at certain RPMs without pinging, because I have a lower CR of 9:1, 93 octane gas, and methanol injection...

I understand the second map is RPM vs. MAFS voltage...is the first map psi (above the standard atmospheric pressure of 14.7) versus rpm?

If it is, what do the "negative" numbers mean??? Are they the amount the timing is retarded assuming a base timing of 20* btdc? If so, -8.5 degrees seems damn conservative at 15 psi if you're using high octane gas and an efficient intercooler...that's 11.5 degrees total timing...Not to mention, the timing in the first map stays static from 2000-6400 rpm?!? That's definitely not right...the timing should become more advanced as rpm increases...

Go to enthalpy's site:

http://www.rs-enthalpy.com/

And go to "tuning info," and then go to SR stand-alone timing...I know you have a KA, and probably have stock CR of 9.5:1 whereas the SR has a CR of 8.5:1 (allowing it to run more advanced timing), but it gives you some idea of what some people tune their timing for at different boost levels...

You need to convert Kpa to psi though, and then subtract 14.7...

But for a quick example, at 200 kpa (14.3 psi), it's running 21* btdc between 4000-8000 rpm. Note, however, that the timing advances a total of 10* getween 1500-4000 rpm...

Anyhow, free bump.

[dustyk]

The one key difference that you have to keep in mind is that the emanage is a piggy back computer and not a standalone. So if you take a look at the numbers on the top ignition map all the numbers are relative to whatever the ecu is running and are not absolute numbers. So the negative numbers are what the emanage is taking out from whatever the ecu is running at that given point.

So in the case of the negative 8.5 that you mentioned, the actualy timing is most likely not the base timing minus the 8.5, but instead will be the base timing plus or minus whatever the stock ecu takes out or adds, minus what the emanage takes out.

[MarkEmark]

The one key difference that you have to keep in mind is that the emanage is a piggy back computer and not a standalone. So if you take a look at the numbers on the top ignition map all the numbers are relative to whatever the ecu is running and are not absolute numbers. So the negative numbers are what the emanage is taking out from whatever the ecu is running at that given point.

So in the case of the negative 8.5 that you mentioned, the actualy timing is most likely not the base timing minus the 8.5, but instead will be the base timing plus or minus whatever the stock ecu takes out or adds, minus what the emanage takes out.

Ahh, good point...didn't even realize that...that'd explain why it stays at -8.5 across almost the entire rev-range...

So if you go to that same enthalpy site, he has a stock KA ECU timing map, although it's RPM versus "load range," whatever that means (obviously has something to do with what gear you're in, what the throttle position is, the MAFS voltage, etc...)

Under the highest RPM and most load, the most advanced the KA ECU timing will be, assuming a base of 20 deg btdc, is 26 @ redline...so if you're running 9 psi of boost, it will be 25 deg btdc according to your map, which to me seems rather aggressive. As a comparison, at 9-10 psi (on a small T3), I was running a total of only 20 deg btdc (measured by my Blitz R-VIT); the JWT ECU retarded the timing to 18 (!!!) degrees for the 370 cc program at 6700 rpm WOT 4th gear; and I had advanced the timing 2 degrees at the distributor...Apparently I was running pretty conservatively, eh?

Where did you get that map? Who made it, and what was he running for a set-up? It's important to know the size of the turbo (9 psi from a small t3 is a lot less cfm than 9 psi from a larger t3/t4), the compression ratio, the octane gasoline used, size/efficiency of the intercooler, ambient weather, etc...

What we really need is someone like Enthalpy to chime in and tell us what total timing he's running for certain tunes at certain RPMs and certain boost pressures--because if anyone knows where the most (reasonably-safe) power is made as far as timing, it's him. (Not so) coincidentally, I emailed him a few days ago asking him the same question but he has not replied yet...I understand tuners don't like to give away their secrets, but I haven't the slightest clue as to how to re-flash an ECU...I merely want to know how aggressive I can get with my timing to compensate for the inherent mildness of the JWT tune...

I'll let you know if he responds.

[sereneDelusions]

Also i will post the .gsc files as well. I found someone who *said* they cracked the emanage KA-T map. Dont know if its true, but I will post it up. Use at your own risk

This is what keeps me from unlocking my greddy kit /w emanage. I dont want to loose the original maps if these arent the right settings. Does anyone know for sure if these are right for an 8psi setup?

Edit: Well more precisely the questions MarkEmark made above me concerning the map owners setup....
Modified by sereneDelusions at 12:18 PM 5/2/2006

[outsides]

that is the injector map that greddy used for their kit. fairly rich as you already know. it runs at 10 afr or so while in/around/anywhere near boost pressure. the timing map, no clue. greddy kit didnt supply any timing corrections.

[sereneDelusions]

that is the injector map that greddy used for their kit. fairly rich as you already know. it runs at 10 afr or so while in/around/anywhere near boost pressure. the timing map, no clue. greddy kit didnt supply any timing corrections.

Cool thanks for that info...now all I need is a good timing map. I have the ign. harness on but yea as you said useless with no map already.

[C-Kwik]

It seems odd that the MAF voltage is increased at higher RPM and MAF signals. If there are larger injectors, the correction should still remain relatively linear. It's also a bit odd as to why the voltage adjustment has such a drastic jump to 30% at 6800 RPM from as low as 2% in the lower MAF voltages at even 6500 RPM. I'd figure it is using the injector correction as there is no adjustment lower than 2500 RPM, but then that would mean it also increases the voltage by as much as 37.5%. It would seem rather pointless. At 4.2 volts and 4000 RPM, the Emanage would tell the ECU it's getting 5.775 volts. I'm not sure the E-Manage can even output that high a voltage. I suspect the ECU may be able to read over 5 volts to some extent, but why even bump up the voltage to 37.5 at a 5 volt MAF signal. The Emanage would then be telling the ECU(or trying) that the MAF is readin 6.875 volts. Something seems far off on these maps...

When I had my KAT with Emanage and 370cc injectors, I simply used the injector correction feature and it ran almost perfect. Had some slight ping on hot days under boost so I backed off timing no more than a few degrees at higher RPM's and load(can't remember if the map was based on TPS or MAF voltage).

[outsides]

justed wanted to note that the map was under the additional injection map, which from what i gather adjusts duty cycle by adding to the factory programmed injector duty cycle. i dont fully understand what all is going on in that blue box, but page 47 of the emanage/e-01 tech manual(at greddy.com under tech section) is what im going from.

also noticed that the aiflow meter input signal is always higher than the emanage airflow output signal. at idle they are nearly the same, but under load the input could be 4.2v, while the output is 3.8v.hope it helped. .

[smokey8611]

Ok, I found out the first map is from emange ultimate, hence why it has PSI.

So yesterday billkline sent me a enthalphy table that used to be on his website. He took it down i guess. The table was great because on of the table had boost and timing. So i went on google and go the K to PSI converter and did each one

Here is the map i made from enthalphys tables:

i also upload the tables he took off his website

Now the new problem -i loadup up the maps on emanage, cut the ignition signal wire(#1 on the ecu) wired up both of the emanage ignition wires to the ecu wire-tried to start her up-nothing

i double checked everything and still nothing-WHat is the correct wire to do this-

[C-Kwik]

justed wanted to note that the map was under the additional injection map, which from what i gather adjusts duty cycle by adding to the factory programmed injector duty cycle. i dont fully understand what all is going on in that blue box, but page 47 of the emanage/e-01 tech manual(at greddy.com under tech section) is what im going from.

also noticed that the aiflow meter input signal is always higher than the emanage airflow output signal. at idle they are nearly the same, but under load the input could be 4.2v, while the output is 3.8v.hope it helped. .

That makes better sense. And yes, the additional injection map adds duty cycle by incorporating it's own ground to hold the injector open longer.

With the MAF voltage differences it would be safe to say either the injector correction feature is being used or the MAF signal alteration map is being used. Hard to say howthis works without knowing which one is used and if they manually set the adjustments for the MAF signal, then we would need to see that map to get a better picture of what they did. The additional injection map increases would seem excessive if the MAF voltage adjustments made to compensate for larger injectors is relatively flat.

[smokey8611]

I just went through the FSM. If I am not supposed to wire my emanage ignition harness into signal wire#1 on the ecu, what should I use then.

I tried using #1 wire on thecu but my car would not start, wired it back up and it started.

This is the only thing keep me from driving my car

[sereneDelusions]

I just went through the FSM. If I am not supposed to wire my emanage ignition harness into signal wire#1 on the ecu, what should I use then.

I tried using #1 wire on thecu but my car would not start, wired it back up and it started.

This is the only thing keep me from driving my car

Dont know if your still having this problem. Same exact thing happened to me...apparently I had it wired backwards. Heres my thread about my no start issue, maybe it will help...

http://www.ka-t.org/forums/vie...light=

[smokey8611]

yea its the exact same thing. So should i switch the wires? Do you still have that diagram?

I was following a picture of someone else but i guess the pic was wrong.

[sereneDelusions]

yea its the exact same thing. So should i switch the wires? Do you still have that diagram?

I was following a picture of someone else but i guess the pic was wrong.

Yea just switch the two wires in the ignition harness and it should start up. Thats all I had to to and it worked fine afterwards. It had me worried for a while that I screwed something up hehe.

Colorado S14 was helping me out with problems along the way and he also had the same problem. So hopefully thats the only thing holding you back...

[farlsmagee6]

Ok, I found out the first map is from emange ultimate, hence why it has PSI.

So yesterday billkline sent me a enthalphy table that used to be on his website. He took it down i guess. The table was great because on of the table had boost and timing. So i went on google and go the K to PSI converter and did each one

Here is the map i made from enthalphys tables:

i also upload the tables he took off his websiteWHat is the correct wire to do this-

how did this thread get lost? one question... in the spreadsheet smokey provided can anyone (smokey included) figure out how the section "With injector corrections" is calculated or what the logic is for figuring the timing "with injector corrections"?

im also trying to figure out how to read a compressor map in order to calculate the boost table... is that possible? lets get this one going again..