Removing #7 Injector

[Mikesinfiniti]

I finally had time to begin changing out the #7 injector. I loosened up the plenum enough where I could get the 2 screws out holding the cover to the injector and I can not get the injector out. It will spin without a problem and I suspect that since they have been in the car since 1994, that is the reason. I've used various pliers that I have and can't seem to work it loose. I can't get under neath to pry it out neither.

I sprayed some WD40 around it and like I said it spins freely, but would not unseat. Other than completely removing the plenum are there any tricks anyone has used? I was thinking of even tapping a screw in the top of the injector so I can have something to grip with the pliers.

Any help would be appreciated.

Mike
Modified by Mikesinfiniti at 10:55 AM 3/3/2007

[goody90q45]

It's been almost 2 hours since you posted so you've probably got this injector (FI) out by now. But....

It will come out. You're doing all the right things- spinning, penetrant, etc. It takes a long, steady pressure to remove a FI. The easiest way is to grip onto the head with a pair of locking pliers and pull straight up, but don't plan on saving the FI doing it this way.

I've changed #7 on my Q and you need to find two long, skinny flathead screwdrivers, about 8"-12" long, with tips small enough to fit in the oval depression on each side of the FI. Put a screwdriver tip in each depression, rotate the FI until you find a fulcrum point for each screwdriver (on the fuel rail or an intake plenum), and then apply a steady and even upward pressure to the FI. It may take about a minute but it will slowly move up and eventually pop out.

You pulled the fuel pump fuse and cranked the engine prior to this so the FI isn't followed out by a shot of fuel to the face?

Good luck.

[Mikesinfiniti]

No. I still am f'ing with it and gave up for the day. Starting to drizzle, plus I'm pissed off. Laying across the engine is starting to take a toll on this 50 yo body. I have tried every pair of pliers I have and can't get that bastard out. I really don't want to pull the plenum completely just for this.

Thanks for the tip on the screwdrivers, I'll give it another try tomorrow.

Mike

[jons]

Mike- I had a tough time too. What did it for me was to grip the top part (not the connector housing) real tight with pliers that open up pretty wide. While sqeezing the pliers real tight, I used a screwdriver to pry up on the pliers. Injector popped out.

The harder part for me was getting the new one in. I wasn't keen on the idea of tapping it with a hammer. I fabricated a custom "pusher" - from a piece of steel tubing with O.D. just less than the diam. of the injector's. Then I ground away a portion to clear the connector housing. Even with this piece, I couldn't just push it in by hand -- I had to use a small pry bar. Then it snapped into place.

Don't use the injector cover to try push the injector in. It won't work. You'll know its seated when the top plastic is almost flush to the manifold. Plus, you won't be able to pull it out!

js.

[3Q Jay]

Goody has the right idea on the fulcrum. i like to place the 2 screws back in without the cap and use those as the fulcrum while putting in the two skinny flatheads.of course, with the plenum on, that's not likely to work for you. hand pressure only with lots of vaseline on the new o-rings to re-install. you'll feel it 'pop' in.

[Mikesinfiniti]

Thanks guys for the tips. I plan on giving it another try today. By the time I called it a day yesterday, I was a few moments away from calling someone to donate the car to charity.

Mike

[Mikesinfiniti]

Well the saga continues......good news and bad news. Finally got the injector out after messing with it for about another 45 minutes and pry it out with a pair of lock pliers and screwdriver. Thought I was on a roll, so I greased up the inew injector, cut a piece of plastic pipe, carved out an area to clear the injector housing, then inserted the injector, then the pipe, and with a little tapping with a hammer on the top of the pipe, I proceeded to brake the ceramic portion of the injector.

Had to stop for the day as I was about ready to torch the car. Need to go pick up an injector which will give me time to cool off before I give it another try.

Murphy lives, and lives openly here in eastern Pa. Any other tips on getting the new injector in will be appreciated.

Mike

[ScottJackson]

Bummer. Did you get both old O rings out before putting in the new injector with the new O rings? When the old injector came out, it most likely left the small O ring down in the injector hole. Otherwise, I don't know what to say. I've only replaced 4 injectors, but never had a problem with using a hammer to tap a small wooden hammer handle (used as the punch) to seat them. It shouldn't take hard whacks by any means. Just very light taps. You could take a green scotch-brite pad and rub the inside of the opening for the injector to make sure it's clean. Otherwise, I dunno what to say except "good luck".

[3Q Jay]

so, not what you want to hear right now--but when i said hand pressure only, i mean thumbs. if it's lubed up, it *will* pop in without tools.

if it helps, i have a 115k used injector that ohms in spec that you may have.

[Mikesinfiniti]

I'll take it. I'll PM you offline.

[3Q Jay]

i really mean you can have it.that's not saying I think it's worthless--just my way of giving back since this site has been so helpful to me. If it works out for you, make a NICO donation if it makes you feel better.

i'll ship it usps priority on Monday--hope you get it Weds. btw, the O-rings in the packets are NEW.

good luck,Jay

PS- Scott J has a point about the lower o-ring. they have been known to get lost.

[Mikesinfiniti]

Thanks Jay. What I didn't realize was that I failed to lube the small o-ring; only the large - damn I'm stupid. I got carried away after getting the old one out. I just realized this after reading the posts in detail.

Thanks again.

Mike

[jons]

Mike,You did the right thing by fashioning a tool to press in the injector, but I'm not a big fan of banging things into place when they can be pressed into place.

My experience was thumb pressure was not nearly enough. I literally climbed on top of the engine and leaned all my weight on to the thing and would not go in. But a small crow bar to lever on a pusher-tube worked easily.

js.

[Mikesinfiniti]

Jons,

Now I think I got it. Use the tool and fulcrum it in with leverage - I think I learned that in school...."long enough lever and you can lift the world". The weather is suppose to warm up the end of this week and I'll post my results.

Thanks again for taking the time to help out.

Mike

[3Q Jay]

Mike- make sure you have the proper orientation on the lower o-ring as well. the one i'm sending you will be correct, but use the new supplied o-rings in place of. the lower ring goes above the pintle cap. you may have already known that, but if it's wrong---then that's another source of problems.

i can't sress enough: patience and persistence. i will also discourage the use of any tool for install (knowing that everyone has the best of intentions with their various advices). one SIGNIFICANT disadvantage to doing the job the way you are is being able to visually confirm the lower o-ring after install, and then pressurise the rail while checking for leaks (fuel rail removed). you therefore must rely on sound and feel to help you judge correct install. tools will dampen the sensory stimulus. if you are able, rigging a fuel pressure gauge and pumping it up with engine off and then checking leakdown rate (like overnight) will help confirm that the lower o-ring is seated and not dumping fuel down the cylinder before you risk hydrolock when you crank it.

[Mikesinfiniti]

Thanks for all the tips. This time around, I plan on taking my time. I'll post my results. Wish me luck.

[ScottJackson]

Yeah, you don't feel the injector pop in place when you use the light hammer tap method. I think I may try the prying/leverage method from now on even though I haven't broken the plastic top of an injector using my tap method. You should be able to see pretty well how seated the injector is with the help of a small flash light. One of these days I'm going to buy a set of 8 fresh rebuilt injectors and replace the knock sensors (not bad yet, knock on wood) and re-seal valve covers. Good luck! (not bad luck, even if it is luck)

[Mikesinfiniti]

Well thanks to Jay I got his spare injector and with the help from eveyone here - Jay, Wes Scott, Jon, etc mission accomplished. I lubed up the injector, got on top of the engine and gave it a few spins to set the o-rings and pushed with my 2 thumbs and heard the "pop". Buttoned everything up, fired up the car and it runs absolutely perfect. No miss, no check engine light, just smooth!

Thanks to everyone here again and this forum for your help.

I hope I can return the favor sometime.

Mike

[3Q Jay]

your welcome, Mike. Glad to hear it's working for you.

go have a beer! :

[carfrk666]

i am actualy having trouble doing injectors for my car, i have a spare engine and i took the fuel rails with injectors out and im going to have them sent to Deatsch to have them cleaned, well i cant get the injectors out of the rails, i have tryed to do what you guys have talked about but it seems worthless when i am holding the entire rail and i dont want to put it into a vise to get it to stay still, would it be alright if i push from the bottem actual injector part? or should i just try do keep doing what you guys have been talkin about?

[goody90q45]

i am actualy having trouble doing injectors for my car, i have a spare engine and i took the fuel rails with injectors out .......would it be alright if i push from the bottom actual injector part? or should i just try do keep doing what you guys have been talkin about?

Double posting is a Bozo no-no. See my answer to your post in the Q45 forum. And yes, if you have the rail in hand the best way to get the FI out would be to push it out by applying steady pressure (don't bang on it with a hammer) to the pintle cap. Lube it up with penetrant first. Good Luck

[silkysmoothyjud]

I've messed around with some injectors before. I've replaced two in my Q with some used ones I've bought off ebay (5 bucks each) because I was too broke from all of the other restoration I was doing to the car when I got it. I actually got a full rail of injectors for 45$ delivered. Waste of money, although it was ok for a while, but now I can't even gun my ride now without it flooding a little and causing misfire. 170K is a good time to freakin replace them all. Does that sound about right? Thats what I'm about to do: I found some rebuilt ones online for about 35$ a piece.

I found the best way to remove an injector from a rail is to hit it with liquid wrench and let it sit overnight. Then, take a big honkin flathead screwdriver and lie it flat on the rail setting it below the part of the injector that is sticking out, where the wire plugs to it. Turn the screwdriver as if you were loosening a screw to pry the inector out just a little, just enough to be able to use a small flathead to pluck the injector right out of the rail. It sounds easy because it is. It took me a while to figure it out. Have fun. OH! use vasoline to put the new ones in place by hand....

[silkysmoothyjud]

Ok, I'm going to take back what I said about the used injectors, since mine are in spec. After doing an inspection, I found that a blade broke off on my radiator fan. That caused a major vibration in my Q that came and went. When I turned off my car the fan moved slowly (its supposed to stop immediately) and exposed the broken blade. That was awsome! Im glad I caught it before it fried my water pump. I ordered a new one from Joe today 71$ delivered.....

[Jesda]

If you break the cap after pushing on the injector from the bottom, ship it off to Deatchwerks (sp) for recapping.

[maxnix]

the palstic pintel caps are usually pretty brittle. I can't imagine pushing on them without damaging them.

It is very easy to remove the entire fuel rails (once the disassembly is performed). The next easiest step is to send them off to Deatschwerks.

[Q451990]

Yeah... I think if I were shipping them somewhere, I would send them in the rails. I suspect they have a nice work area with some custom tools set up to remove them easily.

Heath