RB Engine Coil Retrofit

Discuss the RB20, RB25 and RB26 series engines.
Acecool
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Car: 1989 240SX Hatch Pig KA24E 126k

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Just wanted to update everyone that after around 12k miles on the engine, it is still running great with the buick skylark coilpack and z32 igniter :-)


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WhatsADSM
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Car: 1998 240sx

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rudedrift wrote:i have a valid question here.i have series II rb25. no igniter.since there is no igniter and the coils amplify thier own spark. meaning the ecu sends the trigger, off six seperate wires. to each coil.couldnt wire up the coil power same as you guys, ,run the factory triggers(pins 1,2,3,11,12,13)in pairsto the gm coil, ?and ground the gm boxdoes that make sense?i'm about ready to make this upgrade and i've been thing about this for a while.i mean i do have spare rb20 ignigter and harness, but i'm checking evey angle.
This will NOT work.

If you do this the best case scenario is that the car simply wont fire, worst case scenario is you will blow the drivers in your ECU. Either use the ignitor or do a different setup

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rudedrift
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thanks. i've been looking and looking. the guy with the hal-tec said that system used the same trigger and didnt use his ignitor.

but, what if i used a rb20 ecu and a switch for the intake cam?

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WhatsADSM
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rudedrift wrote:thanks. i've been looking and looking. the guy with the hal-tec said that system used the same trigger and didnt use his ignitor.

but, what if i used a rb20 ecu and a switch for the intake cam?
The issue is that the stock ECU is not strong enough to drive the coils directly. This is the exact reason for having an ignitor... think of the ignitor as amplifying the signal from the ECU so that it is strong enough to drive the coils.

So, likely the reason it worked for the haltec guy is because drivers in his ECU are strong enough to run the coils directly... however the Nissan ECU is not.

If you wish to do this retrofit then you will need to run an ignitor, otherwise you will have to use a coil with a built in ignitor (such as the RB25 S2, LS1, LS2/LS7, etc)

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kev-bo
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hey can i hook the power wire for the coil pack right to the battery or do i need the 4 prong relay? and if i need it what is it for..? because as of now im just using the power wire that was going to the coil on plug setup that was there and i want to change the gauge of wire because it goes from the 12 or 14 that was in the car to a 4 that i put in going to the coil pack

240z4u
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The relay is there to cut power to the coils when the car isn't on as far as I understand it.

I wouldn't use over 10 ga wire. Your not supplying 80 amps of current. Also, that wire should be fused.

Evan

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kev-bo
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cool thanks man. yah i also thought the relay is there to cut power when car is off but was not sure ok well thanks for the info

onepuff
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240z4u wrote:The relay is there to cut power to the coils when the car isn't on as far as I understand it.

I wouldn't use over 10 ga wire. Your not supplying 80 amps of current. Also, that wire should be fused.

Evan
What size fuse would u recommend? 30A?

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NCPP
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Ahh - The age old wasted spark setup.

My biggest suggestion to anyone having issues with RB Coils is completely research all your options.

We had a LOT of customers request that we carried out the external coil with ignition lead (aka 'Wasted Spark') on their RB's only to ditch it later down the track due to unreliability & untidiness mainly.

We actually now offer anyone having problems with RB, SR and even CA Coil-Packs 'Ultra Spark' coils. Theyre cheap enough (Similar priced to the 'Wasted Spark' system) and much much more reliable. Also, proven to increase spark.

For what theyre worth, its definately something to consider guys!


shadybeaverguy
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I have an early S1 R33, and am doing this mod.

I have the 2 plugs on the loom - big and small.

My small one only has 2 wires - 1 white 1 black.

Anyone know where to run the ground to? I guess the igniter - mine says E1 E2 E3 E4 E5 E6

shadybeaverguy
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I think I figured it out. I wasn't grounding it properly....

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StricNyne
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the performance-wise.com yellowjackets are really good and cost 370 shipped from aud i read the skylines australia forums and found them to be good and fix missfiring

shadybeaverguy
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Yeah but there is something fun about building something...

Paradox
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a1cpunker wrote:
this might be a stupid queestion but what kind of relay is the 4 prongs relay? can you post a Part #? or is it one of the 4 prongs on the car. thank you sir
Guys,Bringing this one back up. I have been having many issues with coilpacks and I had the coil and wires and a pigtail laying around from when I bought this botched Rb20 swap.

I bought the Z32 fuel pump relay and looked at the diagram on the relay and the one on this diagram and THINK I hooked it up correctly, however, the coil part and the switch part are reversed on mine. Well, I matched up the bottom "switched" part by the short end going to B+ and the part with the door to the 3 daisy-chained wires on the coil. I have the ground directly across the relay from the B+ and the 12V across the phone cord coil mark from ground. I think I may have it reversed, but do not want to switch things around, yet.

It is not getting spark, the ground wires are grounded good, the ignitor is grounded.

Anyone have any ideas? I can go get a pic in a little while of the relay and where the wires go.

cmj
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Car: 91 Nissan 240sx

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Bringing this back up. I have a short somewhere in my harness. It's the Black wire Red stripe on the 3 pin plug. I understand this is the reference wire to the ECU. I wired up the car, and ran a direct line from the ecu, to the 3 pin plug, and the car only ran on cylinders 2 through 5, leaving no fire for 1 & 6. Doing some random testing I accidentally put B+ to the timing wire, and the car ran on all 6 cylinders. Why is this? What else does this wire do? What would cause this? Quick response is much appreciated, trying to get the car prepped for this season.

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Sil240
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Hey the Black and Red wire on the 3 wire plug is a Ground.Check out my LS2 Truck Coil Thread.I laid out all the wires BEFORE the Ignitor.For a RB20 at least, S1 RB25 is similar wire colors.

Faustini
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Cefiro Coil loom... the previous owners butchered my rb coil pack loom, anyone able to help me connect the 3 wire corretly for my 5th cylinder coil pack (or 2nd cylinder.. its the one 2 from the front)

Is it true you guys in the US aren't allowed to register RB powered cars for road use ?

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l0nestar
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Faustini wrote:Cefiro Coil loom... the previous owners butchered my rb coil pack loom, anyone able to help me connect the 3 wire corretly for my 5th cylinder coil pack (or 2nd cylinder.. its the one 2 from the front)

Is it true you guys in the US aren't allowed to register RB powered cars for road use ?
Which engine is this for?And yes, technically. But here the majority of states (Provinces for you, my Kiwi friend) do not do emissions testing.

neo240sx
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Car: s13 Rb25 Neo
s13 LQ4 w/MS3 Cam
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Ok I've got this working on my setup but the park gets blown out at low boost (10 lbs) around 5000 rpm. I got the 10 gauge wire in there and the ground before the igniter. I've tried 2 different coil sets and its doing the same thing on both. I'm getting ready to ditch this setup for the ls2 coils. :tisk:
I'm currently using a buick park ave coil (magnavox I think) if this is the problem what coil are ya'll using???
I'm using a J30 igniter with my setup. Do you thing this is why the spark is getting blown out?

Paradox
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Car: Cars, computers...

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Image

Top is original retrofit with RB ignitor and bottom is with Z32 ignitor. See how the 3 pin plug has wires labelled differently?


Image
DriftX wrote:This is a simple wiring diagram for those who are running the z32 ignitor and wish to wire up the gm/buick coil conversion. This also eliminates the small 14 gauge wire to control the coil, rather now this includes how to wire up a relay and using 10 gauge wire directly feeding from battery.
I have a question about this Z32 ignitor application of the buick coil retrofit. In the pic above, it shows the center wire from the 3 pin plug being GROUND and going to the ground on center of injector side of ignitor and going to earth.

On the very first page it shows the center wire from 3 pin plug being called POWER. I tried this before and nothing happened wiring it up as the diagram above and thought i had issues with the relay.

Can someone please clarify this for me? Does the center white wire go to the ground on injector side of ignitor and get grounded, or does the top wire in this diagram marked 12V go to the ground off of injector side of ignitor? I am not very good with wiring but can do this if I know this one detail.

Thank you.

onepuff
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Subscribed

Paradox
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Paradox wrote:Image

Top is original retrofit with RB ignitor and bottom is with Z32 ignitor. See how the 3 pin plug has wires labelled differently?


Image
DriftX wrote:This is a simple wiring diagram for those who are running the z32 ignitor and wish to wire up the gm/buick coil conversion. This also eliminates the small 14 gauge wire to control the coil, rather now this includes how to wire up a relay and using 10 gauge wire directly feeding from battery.
I have a question about this Z32 ignitor application of the buick coil retrofit. In the pic above, it shows the center wire from the 3 pin plug being GROUND and going to the ground on center of injector side of ignitor and going to earth.

On the very first page it shows the center wire from 3 pin plug being called POWER. I tried this before and nothing happened wiring it up as the diagram above and thought i had issues with the relay.

Can someone please clarify this for me? Does the center white wire go to the ground on injector side of ignitor and get grounded, or does the top wire in this diagram marked 12V go to the ground off of injector side of ignitor? I am not very good with wiring but can do this if I know this one detail.

Thank you.

EDIT, I spoke with DriftX and he told me he wrote this a long time ago and did not have the car anymore and to use common sense. He was helpful and I looked at it logically. The 3 pin wire on the diagram is backwards. The center white wire goes to the relay across the coil side from ground. The black and purple? or black/red wire off 3 prong plug (opposite side from trigger wire which is black with 2 silver rings) (the white wire is in the middle)) The black/purple wire on 3 pin plug goes to ground.

Hopefully this can help others. I am getting good spark on all 6 wires, but I think I have an injector issue to be sorted out, #2 and #4 are not getting fuel. Will this ever end?

********EDIT 2.23.2011: Did compression check last night, avoided it because I was sure I had 2 dead cylinders...Compression was 130 to 140 across, no issues. After rethinking it, I wanted to try another ignitor. My friend was with me with his RB hatch, which inspired me to try to mess with it again...and his has RB ignitor. He also had a spare Z32 ignitor, which we retrieved from his house, plugged it in, laid it on top of my old ignitor and it started and ran fine! Need to adjust CAS now since I have tried everything to get it running.

The buick coils are great! I recommend them to anyone, it will look tidy also as soon as I put the cover on top of plugs/wires...the wires come out of back of cover and run along firewall to the windshield wiper motor area where the coil is temporarily (or permanently) ziptied in place.

I just had to post this, I can now enjoy my RB20! Hopefully my clarification of the wiring posted aboe helps someone, but the real work was done far before I got involved.
Last edited by Paradox on Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

radianation
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Does anybody have the wiring for LS2 Truck coils on RB25DET Series 2 coil on plug setup? I'm just a little confused what to do with the 4th wire since the factory plugs only have 3 wires. From what I can tell, the missing wire would be the 5v return on the LS2?

flatrate
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radianation wrote:Does anybody have the wiring for LS2 Truck coils on RB25DET Series 2 coil on plug setup? I'm just a little confused what to do with the 4th wire since the factory plugs only have 3 wires. From what I can tell, the missing wire would be the 5v return on the LS2?

you should update your thread here... ive seen your progress on another forum...excited to see/hear what kinda power you make

radianation
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My biggest problem is that my coil packs break up over 17/18 psi (always have). I bought Super Sparks to "upgrade" the OEM but they are no better. I even did the liquid tape around them to help prevent arcing, but that didn't work either. So now I'm stuck with an ignition problem and it looks like the LS2 Truck coils are the solution. I couldn't get a solid baseline tune to start advancing timing for real power due to the breakup at around 6,000 RPM. Even with the plugs gapped as low as 19, still no go.

**edit** Found the solution in another thread.
my-ls2-ls7-coil-swap-t353832.html
Originally Posted by WhatsADSM
Next I moved on to the wiring. Each coil gets a earth ground for the large current used to charge the coil, and a seperate signal ground. Many people ties these 2 grounds together.... To be honest if you don't mind a little extra wiring you really should isolate the 2 a bit from each other since the coil ground may have a tendency to get a bit noisy and the last thing you need is noise on the incoming trigger signal from the ECU. In my case I ran the coil ground directly to the - terminal on the battery and the signal ground to a chassis mounting point that my bracket was attached to.

radianation
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Almost finished with my LS2 Truck Coil-near-plug conversion (originally series 2 RB25DET).
Here's a sample of my mounting bracket I had made. goes in place of the factory cover.

Image

Darius
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That looks badass! Nice work!

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l0nestar
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Radination,
Simple question - Are the coils 'hidden' inside or are they outside?
I'm concerned about heat dissipation / ambient temperature if 'hidden' directly above the combustion chamber.

I really like this idea.

But hey, if you fry a coil, you should have two spares!

240z4u
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They sit on the outside, there is no way they would fit inside. Looks great though. I like it.

radianation
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Thanks guys. I wish I could take credit for coming up with the idea, but another guy down in Lexington, KY made the first one and I liked it so much that he offered to make one for me as well. And yes, they sit on top of the cover (not inside).

I am going to see if I can mockup another one where the coils mount vertically with half of the coil pack sticking out the top and the other half underneath. Might save some room and give a cool look too, but we'll see. My only complaint with this setup is that the spark plug cables are so short that you really have to work to get them plugged underneath there.

Here is my how-to writeup on another forum: http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/rb-en ... -swap.html


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