2002 Q45 cranks but won't start after engine swap. [SOLVED - damaged signal plate]

A Q45 forum / Cima forum for the President of Infiniti's lineup. Brought to you by Infiniti Parts USA, your OEM source for Q45 parts!
HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

2002 Q45 cranks but won't start after engine swap. [SOLVED - damaged signal plate]

Postby HollywoodJackson » Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:14 am

:facepalm: Greetings all!

I have finally got the new (used) VK45DE from a 2003 Q45 installed into my 2002 Q45. Last night, as the self-help garage was shutting down, we tried to start the car. It turns over, but it didn't run. There were a few backfires.

Question: Do the wiring harness connectors have identifying numbers on them?

I have 2 connectors that are not hooked up.

The first one is the light blue connector at the back of the engine, that should be the Coolant Temp Sensor. It looks like the '02 and '03 years differ here a bit. It seems there is like an inch or two needed in order to connect this connector.

The second one, is hanging down in the back of the engine, and it looks like a wide white connector, with 8 pins in it. I'm really curious as to what this one could be/go to. I'm home now, and will be heading back to the self-help shortly.

Question: The coil pack tube... should it be able to rotate freely from the coil square at the top of it?

I need to get this ride running!

All the best,
~HollywoodJackson~
Last edited by EdBwoy on Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.


EdBwoy
Moderator
Posts: 3073
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:47 am
Location: St. Louis Metro East - IL
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby EdBwoy » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:39 am

Has it started by now?
Do you have pictures, specifically of the connectors?

HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby HollywoodJackson » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:43 am

EdBwoy wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:39 am
Has it started by now?
Do you have pictures, specifically of the connectors?
Hey what's up EdBwoy...
The connector that was hanging in the back, was to be plugged into the AC compressor. It's plugged in now. Still not running.
:frown:

EdBwoy
Moderator
Posts: 3073
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:47 am
Location: St. Louis Metro East - IL
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby EdBwoy » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:57 am

Make sure the main harnesses are connected:
  • Fuel injectors
  • Coil packs
  • Mass air flow sensor
  • Throttle body
  • Oxygen sensors

HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby HollywoodJackson » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:48 am

EdBwoy wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:57 am
Make sure the main harnesses are connected:
  • Fuel injectors
  • Coil packs
  • Mass air flow sensor
  • Throttle body
  • Oxygen sensors
It seems like I may have something plugged in, in the wrong location. The #2 and #4 coil pack don't seem to spark. I'm assuming #6 and #8 aren't sparking either.

EdBwoy
Moderator
Posts: 3073
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:47 am
Location: St. Louis Metro East - IL
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby EdBwoy » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:28 am

The engine can still run with a few cylinders non-responsive... Unless the computer doesn't even know the engine is turning.

I assume you don't like hearing this, but it's time to check your crankshaft and camshaft sensor circuits. At minimum transfer those sensors from your old engine - at least you knew that that engine ran.

HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby HollywoodJackson » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:55 am

EdBwoy wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:28 am
I assume you don't like hearing this...
I don't mind hearing that. I need to get this car running!! I did try swapping the crank and cam sensors. Are there any engine harness plugs that could possibly be crossed up and plugged into the wrong connection? The fuel injector plugs and the coil pack plugs, are no brainers. But there are some plugs that run around the bottom of the engine. Could two of those be plugged in the wrong place?

EdBwoy
Moderator
Posts: 3073
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:47 am
Location: St. Louis Metro East - IL
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby EdBwoy » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:42 am

The bottom of the engine doesn't have very many plugs and even then, I don't see how these can be crossed... Maybe missed?
You would definitely know if you hadn't plugged the starter wires. Otherwise, you also have oil pressure, crankshaft sensor, power steering pressure sensor and the steering rack solenoid.

If you have switched over all the electronics from the old engine and it still won't fire, then the harness might need to be replaced with the known functional one as well.
On a simpler troubleshooting step, I know you said some spark plugs/coilpacks didn't seen to fire, but how about the fuel system? Can you hear the fuel pump run when the key is in the second position? Did you pull the fuel pump fuse before engine removal and remember to reinstall it?

HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby HollywoodJackson » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:13 pm

What is the correct location for this ground wire?

Image

All the best,
~HollywoodJackson~

HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby HollywoodJackson » Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:45 pm

Never mind about the ground. I found out its just a basic ground to run from the block to the frame. The self help shop I'm working on the car at, doesn't have a scanner that can pick up the signal coming from the sensors.

Still turns over, occasional back fire. but won't run...

Very
:wtf2:
LOL

EdBwoy
Moderator
Posts: 3073
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:47 am
Location: St. Louis Metro East - IL
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby EdBwoy » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:58 pm

EdBwoy wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:42 am
...
On a simpler troubleshooting step, I know you said some spark plugs/coilpacks didn't seen to fire, but how about the fuel system? Can you hear the fuel pump run when the key is in the second position? Did you pull the fuel pump fuse before engine removal and remember to reinstall it?

HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby HollywoodJackson » Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:33 am

Hey EdBwoy!

I didn't pull any of the fuses before removing the engine. I don't believe I can hear the fuel pump running when the key is ion the 2nd position. Should it be loud?

User avatar
goody90q45
Posts: 3677
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:07 pm
Car: 1992 Q45 (sold)
Location: Orangevale, CA

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby goody90q45 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:19 pm

Fuel pump pressurizes the system when the key is turned to the on position even if the engine is not turned on. Open the trunk and you'll hear it run for a few seconds and then stop.

HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby HollywoodJackson » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:34 am

I'm going back over to the self-help garage where the car is, later today/tomorrow. Here is a list of items I plan on checking to see if I can get the car to start.
  1. Rechecking all of the harness connections from the main engine harness to the top of the engine, fuel injectors, coil packs, etc
  2. Connect the harness connections to the sensors just before the cats
  3. Splice new connections and connect the after cat harness connections
  4. Going to inspect closely the cam and crank sensors, as I probably have them crossed up. I see that they are not the same part numbers
  5. Check for spark
  6. Check for fuel pressure
I'm feeling sort of confident, again, armed with more information.

Fingers fucking crossed LOL

All the best,
~HollywoodJackson~

HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby HollywoodJackson » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:11 am

EdBwoy,

Is there a way to definitively tell then crankshaft sensor from the camshaft sensor? They look just alike. but have different part numbers, and of course probably send a different signal value. Currently I have 4 on hand, that could be any mix of cam and crank sensors. I didn't remove the one from my transmission housing, so it's safe to assume that is a crank sensor.

Using the odd numbers that are actually on the sensor, that don't cpoincide with the part number, I think I now have a cam sensor plugged in, in the cam sensor spot on the front of the engine. Tomorrow I will attempt to start the car again.

What an ordeal LMAO

EdBwoy
Moderator
Posts: 3073
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:47 am
Location: St. Louis Metro East - IL
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby EdBwoy » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:21 am

No, the crank sensor and the cam sensor are the same. They look alike and have the same part number, although these numbers could have changed over time.
The cam sensor will work in place of the crank sensor and vise versa.

With regards to sensors and electronics in general, the simplest way would be to switch everything over from the old engine. That's if everything else is correct.

How did you accomplish the engine swap, did you separate the engine and transmission at any point?

EdBwoy
Moderator
Posts: 3073
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:47 am
Location: St. Louis Metro East - IL
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby EdBwoy » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:29 am

And when you get a chance, take pictures and video of what you have going on in and around the engine bay. A recording of a start attempt would be nice to have as well.

HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby HollywoodJackson » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:33 am

EdBwoy wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:21 am
How did you accomplish the engine swap, did you separate the engine and transmission at any point?
Yes. I left the transmission in the car. I removed only the engine. Ok so the cam and crank sensor are interchangeable. The '03's fuel rail was backwards, so I put the '02 fuel rail on the newer engine.

EdBwoy
Moderator
Posts: 3073
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:47 am
Location: St. Louis Metro East - IL
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby EdBwoy » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:08 am

Ok, good to know. I don't know if you found anything on fuel pressure, or whether all your fuses checked out... Or if you were able to pull any codes to guide you.

Clarify this for me:
When you removed and reinstalled the engine, did you make sure you did not dent or bend the signal plate?
And also that you reinstalled EVERYTHING you had taken out during removal, including this plate/spacer?

Those 2 factors affect the crank signal, which in turn affects the fuel pump, among others.

HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby HollywoodJackson » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:31 am

There is a big flat ring that came from in between the block and the bell housing/flywheel. On reinstall, I put the ring/pkate between the flywheel and the block lined up with the two big guides that fit in the two holes around the ring.

Could I have installed that wrong? I will check the FSM shortly.

HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby HollywoodJackson » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:32 am

IS this plate separate from the flywheel? Of course I removed the 8 bolts for the flywheel, however I don't recall removing the bolts that appear to be holding this 'signal plate' to the flywheel.

Image

I'm going to have to get back over there to the shop and see if I see this thing laying around, or, open the access door to the flywheel and see if I can see it up in there. Also, I thought I read in the FSM that in the event the crank sensor at the back bottom went out, the engine could operate with just a signal coming from the cam sensor. Is this not accurate? or is the FSM meaning that the car would continue to run, but once s*** down, this could cause a 'no start'??

HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby HollywoodJackson » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:04 pm

On another note, I left the throttle body that came on the '03, on the engine. Should I swap out the throttle body for the one that came with my car originally? Maybe the electronics on the throttle body need to match with the ECU?

EdBwoy
Moderator
Posts: 3073
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:47 am
Location: St. Louis Metro East - IL
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby EdBwoy » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:14 pm

The plate I'm referring to installs sandwiched between the bellhousing and the engine block. It is shaped like the bellhousing and from the sounds of it, you did that part correctly.
(Click the link in my last post, the OP in that thread had pictures of it on the floor)

The signal plate is what is attached to the starter ring gear. Any insight on the bend/damage question?

HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby HollywoodJackson » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:25 pm

Ok, so the signal plate, is the piece that is connected to the starter ring gear (aka flywheel). Its in the picture above, correct? If it's attached to the ring gear (flywheel) the same way on the '02, as it is in the above pic on the '06, then I'm pretty sure I didn't remove it from the ring gear, and it should (SHOULD) be in perfect order with no bends. When I get to the shop tomorrow, I will check it for any damage.

User avatar
Q451990
Moderator
Posts: 11047
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2002 8:21 am
Car: 1990 Q45 - 114K, 2017 Toyota 4 Runner, 2004 Frontier M/T - 95K, 2012 Xterra (Mom's), 2017.5 Rogue (Inlaws)
Location: Columbia, SC
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby Q451990 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:44 am

It's amazing how many rolling changes Nissan makes between model years of seemingly identical cars.

HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby HollywoodJackson » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:49 pm

Q451990 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:44 am
It's amazing how many rolling changes Nissan makes between model years of seemingly identical cars.
It is! I love this car. I need to get it running!

Hey EdBwoy, so the signal plate looks good. One thing I have noticed, the harness going from the battery down to the starter is pinned between the engine mount and the frame. Could this be causing a short? I don't hear the fuel pump operating at all. The engine mounts are ruined, both of them. I'm surprised I didn't notice that. I'm going to look for two engine mounts at the junkyard tomorrow.

I have a few more items under the hood to button up. Once that is done, I'm thinking about taking the car to PepBoys and let them figure out why it won't start. I need to cut to the chase, LOL. I think I have saved all I can by swapping out the engines myself.

EdBwoy
Moderator
Posts: 3073
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:47 am
Location: St. Louis Metro East - IL
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby EdBwoy » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:51 pm

I'd think if the engine is cranking, then the starter is working and the pinched harness isn't presenting any problem... Or maybe it is a problem different from the starter if it shorted a fuse or fusible link by the battery; you'd have to check.

Troubleshooting a job halfway done by someone else is tough. Doing it remotely is even tougher. It would greatly help us to help you if you addressed these requests:
-
  • have you checked all the fuses? 2002-q45-major-fuses-relays-and-modules ... 22905.html
  • what all still needs to be "buttoned up" under the hood?
  • can you provide pictures of what your under-hood situation is? Video helps too
  • how about a video as you attempt to start it? Show what the gauge cluster is showing, let us hear it
  • You mention some electronics, I mentioned some key ones as well as the harness. Which of those have you looked at?
We might be able to identify what is preventing your car from starting, but right now we're just swinging wildly as you swing wildly.

HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby HollywoodJackson » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:32 am

Thanks for all of the replies, and insight. Also apologies for the long waits in between posts. The car is at a self help shop on the other side of town, and it's not easy to get overt there. I took several pics around the engine bay. It's very packed in the bay of course, so the pics are... ya know. Also, I have two videos of attempting to start the car, so you guys can hear her.

Pics 1-10 (only allowed 10 URLs per post)

Image
--

Image
--

Image
--

Image
--

Image
--

Image
--

Image
--

Image
--

Image
--

Image
--

More pics and the YouTube videos to follow in the next post!

All the best,
~HollywoodJackson~

HollywoodJackson
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Car: 2002 Q45 Premium (daily)
1990 240SX (drift)
1999 Q45 (RIP)
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby HollywoodJackson » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:42 am

More pics and the YouTube videos...

Image
--

Image
--

Image
--

Image
--

Image
--

Image
--


--


--

Apologies, I didn't remember to get video of the cluster during the attempt to start the car. I will get back over there by Wednesday, and get that footage, and also check more of the items EdBwoy is asking for. Thanks for all of the valuable information and tips by the way. It's greatly appreciated. We have a lot of pick-a-part yards here. I will look out for anyone that needs a hard to find part, for a Q45. Just let me know. Some shipping and handling or parts purchase will be involved, but I will get parts for anyone on the board as cheap as possible!

All the best,
~HollywoodJackson~

MowgliCSM
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:56 am
Car: 99 Q45t.
Location: South Carolina

Re: Questions regarding the 2003 F50 Q45 VK45DE that is now swapped in my 2002 F50 Q45 - WON'T START

Postby MowgliCSM » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:24 pm

First thing I noticed is you have a bunch of hose clamps not installed correctly. A few vacuum hoses look in really poor condition. Might also be missing a valve cover bolt. And this might be a stupid question, but do you have the fuel supply and return hoses hooked up correctly?


Return to “Q45 Forum / Cima Forum”