Question?

Post by **I H8 UR DSM** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

i havent seen many Stock Fbodies run mid 12's...if thats what you are saying. I know 'fairly' stock fbodies hitting high 12's, and modded fbodies hitting mid 12's...but they have more than 230hp...

Im about 260rwhp, and 2500 lbs, and im not running mid 12's....

now if your saying those fbodies are slightly modded, and running slicks or something, then yea, but stock?....

Post by **Chris69427** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

No, I definitely wasn't saying they were stock f-bodies running 12s, but they did have (almost) completely stock motors (only exterior mods like headers etc).Yes, the particular 94 Camaro I'm referring to did actually have slicks among other serious suspension mods to make for high to mid 12 second 1/4 mile passes. I was just wondering if a 240sx with similar traction mods and a better hp/weight ratio couldn't do the same thing?Later,Chris

Post by **I H8 UR DSM** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

: )..

Yes..thats what i thought.

Yes, its a lighter car, but doesnt have near the same displacement.

the big thing w/ the SR is the size of the stock turbo...once thats upgraded, as well as fuel, you'll fly : )

low 12's and 11's once you upgrade that turbo, or even go w/ hybrid turbo

Post by **Chris69427** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

Okay, those numbers make sense.

If you upgrade the turbo, you'll be making roughly 300-320hp at the flywheel which equates to the same 230hp I had those mid 12 second f-bodies running at, so with your lighter 240sx, that'd easily be low 12s or even 11s... I get it now, thanks!

Also, what size turbo would you upgrade to? Daunttless suggested an S15-spec T28 for its quick spool up and it'd still hit my daily driver goal of 300rwhp? I noticed a lot of people here lust after the T3/T4 hybrid, though... is that for 400hp? What would you run?

Post by **ST240** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

I dont think theres that much loss through the drive train is there?! thats like almost 30%

Post by **Daunttless** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

There isn't that much loss thru the drivetrain.

The other thing you have to understand about the SR/CA/whatever compared to those F-Bodies is that when you aren't on boost its like driving a rear wheel drive non-vtec honda. : ) Those F-bodies have twice the cylinders and displacement, they're going to cut a lot of time off right in the beginning.

You don't want to push an internally stock SR20 past 350.

The S15 turbo would be at its limit at 300 rwhp, but at least you wouldn't have hardly any spool up time.

Post by **I H8 UR DSM** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

Chris69427 wrote:Okay, those numbers make sense.

If you upgrade the turbo, you'll be making roughly 300-320hp at the flywheel which equates to the same 230hp I had those mid 12 second f-bodies running at, so with your lighter 240sx, that'd easily be low 12s or even 11s... I get it now, thanks!

Also, what size turbo would you upgrade to? Daunttless suggested an S15-spec T28 for its quick spool up and it'd still hit my daily driver goal of 300rwhp? I noticed a lot of people here lust after the T3/T4 hybrid, though... is that for 400hp? What would you run?

I think the drivetrain loss on our cars is 18%...

230rwhp in a light 240, your running mid 13's.350 rwhp, you will be running low 12's or mid 12's in the 240's..

yes SR motors w/out boost you should relate more to a RWD sentra se-r...sr20de.

sr is slow w/out boost.

Post by **I H8 UR DSM** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

t3/t4 w/ full fuel, and good manifold will put you low 12's, high 11's.

Post by **sr20meplease** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

what is the great part of a t3/t4 turbo...i see em everywhere....hondas mostly...i guess its a good turbo then? what about larger turbos...like a T61 with upgrades to make it run without breakin and all where would that put a 91-93 240sx

Post by **ST240** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

yeah no kidding wtf is the hype about the t3/t4 :jump

Which is better t3/t4? or an s15 turbo?

-Andre

Post by **sr20meplease** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

i said larger...but i am not sure how large a t3/t4 is so...yea i said it without thinking

Post by **777aaron** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

Turbonetics' T3/T4 hybrid turbochargers consist of a T3 turbine section and a T4 compressor section.This hybrid offers the fast boost response of the lightweight turbine wheel (which the small displacement engines we are speaking of love) and the high airflow of the T4 compressor family (which everybody loves,more air=moreH.P.).This makes the T3/T4 hybrid a very popular choice for sport-compact applications,alsoavailable is the ceramic ball-bearing T3/T4hybrid which offers some of the the fastest spool-up available.Airflow ratings on these turbos range from 250 to 450 H.P.,and they are decently affordable which also makes them a very good choice in my opinion.A person would want to use a well built engine if you were going to run one of these.In my opinion a T61 would be much to big to ever be driven around on the steet.In the AUG. 2002 issue of turbo they feature an S13 engine in a S14 with a T78 turbo,at 0.9 boost it made 335 H.P. and at 1.3 bar it made 410 h.p..I think these guys went so big that they actually hurt their h.p. potential,that is the kind of turbo you would want to use on a suped up Grand National,an engine almost twice the size that we are talking about.Also,try to back order or borrow from a friend the July 2002 issue of Sport Compact Car and the August issue of Suuper Street,as these both have very informative turbo articles.You may even check the local libary.Hope this helps you guys out,777aaron

Post by **I H8 UR DSM** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

well 777aaron gave you most of the info. First remember when you see a lot of cars have a t3/t4 or whatever, there are hundreds of different t3/t4's, depending on what wheel, compressor, a/r, etc.T3/T4 is a popular choice for people trying to make their car streetable, and quick. it is limited though, and its not a very big turbo. If you looking for 12's then its a good choice that helps maintain streetability. If your a drag racer, then you will most likely have something larger.A T78 can be a great turbo on the SR, but you should have a built motor, and might want to spray to help spool up, it will have a lot of lag, but will get you above the 500+hp level...the T3/T4 is a relatively inexpensive turbo. Figure in 'size' relation a HKS turbo is gonna run you about $500-1000 more.

cars in mag's suck.

Post by **Chris69427** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

Alright, bear with me, fellas, I'm new to the turbo world and how these cars work. So you'll have a slower 60' even with perfect traction b/c the turbo isn't spooled yet, I see... but then you'd catch me quick for the rest of the 1/4 mile. So even with the same peak hp rating, your car will act differently in the 1/4 because of the slower non-boosted starting times, but of course more top end power means you'd make up for it... right?

About spool up times, though, I was thinking of a larger turbo for the car since that would give me more rpms to play with when the motor's cold and I wanna keep it from boosting and damaging the turbo etc. The benefit is monstrous hp on the top end when you wanna race, but sluggish driveability which I won't mind too much...

There was a Signal S15 in that issue of SuperStreet, by the way, that was running a T88 and made over 600hp with a stroked sr22det motor (stroked 2.0L to 2.2L)! So that'd be really sluggish on the street, right? Or does the added displacement make up for it?

Later,Chris

Post by **Cyberkreig** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

2.2L is a double edged sword. Of course it gives you more non-turboed starting power. But you have to remember that a larger displacement is a larger area to fill. what is 10lbs on 2.0l is like 9lbs on 2.2L, same small effect a too-big intercooler has, increasing perceived lag.

If anyone wants to go off on a tangent about compressor trims I would love to listen. So my SR has a T25(small turbo) with .64 A/R 60trim compressor, and .64 A/R 62 trim Turbine. Great.. so.. what does that mean? A/R?

Post by **Chris69427** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

Yeah, the Signal car I was referring to was running 1.7bar which is over 20lbs of boost, yikes! So I think they more than made up for the larger area to fill with the added displacement... Anyone who has a similar setup and lives near Atlanta, I'd love to take a ride with you, lol! I bet that thing hauls when you get into the boost!

Anyway, I too would like to be educated on A/R and trim sizes... I'm guessing that's the size of the impeller which is limited in part by the housing it's contained within?? I'd love to be enlightened...

Later,Chris

Post by **sickboy** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

roughly speaking A/R is the size of turbine or compressor housings. Trim is angle and type of blades on the compressor wheel or turbine wheel.

generally a lower a/r exhaust housing nets a quicker spool, but sacrifices top end power, and vice versa.

MANY factors go into choosing what turbo is right for what particular car.....things like what type of fuel do you have to support it, how well does the head flow to keep it fed, how much timing advance can u run etc etc etc.

on my old car, a 1990 RX-7, i ran a Turbonetics ball bearing T60-1 with a .81 undivided hot side, along with 1600cc injectors and a haltech E6K. that setup was good for mid 400s to the ground and full boost at 3,000rpm. on an SR i imagine that turbo would be a lag monster just because the motor doesnt have the heat or energy in the exhaust to drive such a "big" a/r and compressor.........but a rotary is a whole othe animal as far as what type of turbo etc you can get away with on the street.

Post by **Nismo Sr22GT** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:38 am

by the way, the integra type R does not have 200 hp and it does not run mid, low 14s, it runs high 14s low 15s, the s14 stock sr would run around 14.5-14.7 in stock trim.

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