Quarter Mile Times

[corn322]

just the intake and the timing bump got you those numbers? cool.

[IveBeenBad]

The way my coupe sits now, I could prolly run a 1:00... keepin mind ill be pushing while a midget steers...

[corn322]

heh heh.my friend has an '87 or '83 (can't remember) nissan pickup. his quarter mile time is "sometimes"

on a different subject, does the Z24i have a timing chain or a belt?

[cory2081]

what mods did you have on that dyno pull, orion??

[BONES S13]

i'm best time with a bone stock 91 5 speed hatchback

r/t : .5231/4 : 15.6mph: 87.78

[crzycav86]

Because the most highly modified N/A 240s don't dyno much more than 160rwhp, tried and trued by half this board.

That'll get you a 15.0 @ 92-93mph or so, but no more...

- Brian

What exactly do you consider highly modified?

Edit: 1000th post

[keepingthe240]

IIRC it was 158ft/lbs...

I can't even find my +160rwhp dyno anymore, but I have my previous best on the web:

157rwhp / 154rwtq, KA dyno

All I added was a little more base timing and a 3" intake that was a short ram, placed the filter where the battery used to be.

Here's a pic: Custom intake

And 180 may be attainable, but no one's done it to my knowledge...

- Brian

I assume this!!

[:: orion ::]

Ahhh...missed this thread, sorry for the long time between replies.

corn322 - I added the 3" intake and timing OVER what I already had done, see below.

cory2081 - I had Injen intake, HS header, GReddy MX exhaust, no cat, JWT N/A ECU, S13 cams, ACT clutch, base timing @ 21, no emmissions stuff...

crzycav86 - I consider highly modified a bunch of bolt on's that are chosen to work well together...I guess I should have said "highly modified n/a street car".

sideshowbob - huh?

- Brian

[crzycav86]

Ahhh...missed this thread, sorry for the long time between replies.

corn322 - I added the 3" intake and timing OVER what I already had done, see below.

cory2081 - I had Injen intake, HS header, GReddy MX exhaust, no cat, JWT N/A ECU, S13 cams, ACT clutch, base timing @ 21, no emmissions stuff...

crzycav86 - I consider highly modified a bunch of bolt on's that are chosen to work well together...I guess I should have said "highly modified n/a street car".

sideshowbob - huh?

- Brian

I see.. so you didn't really try it all yet.

You were missing high compression and a head-job. There were other little bolt-on's that you were missing as well. I suppose you could call your NA set-up a highly-modified street car.. but I wouldn't call it so. I'd just call it a street car with the works..

[:: orion ::]

Hmmmmm....high compression is about 4% per point bump...

So from 9.5 to 11, 6% increase...160 X 1.06 = 169.

That's been done, by "Rownan". Similar setup to my old one, plus SOHC pistons and a flywheel.

Highest RWHP I've seen from a KA.

And P&P...that's not gonna do too much for a motor that quits at ~7000rpm. Maybe 5 more RWHP, but that's still shy of 180.

Again, without rediculous $$$ spent (My setup was worth about ~$2000 if you bought all the parts new...add a rebuild, high compression, and porting...another $1000 easy.), you won't see +180rwhp.

And I don't want to beat a dead horse here...until someone shows me a dyno at that power level, this thread is redundant.

- Brian

[crzycav86]

I don't find it redundant. We're just discussing NA-KA's.

I'm shooting for 200 whp this summer. If I reach it, I'll send you a dyno sheet. If I reach 180, I'll let you know as well. I have a few tricks planned, and I'm on a $2k budget, so we'll see ...

[keepingthe240]

Hmmmmm....high compression is about 4% per point bump...

So from 9.5 to 11, 6% increase...160 X 1.06 = 169.

- Brian

Your way off!! A 10% bump in compression will increase 10% gross hp. Along with the increase in compression, you'll need a bigger cam to run with the 92 octane. The kade can make 220@ the flywheel/180@the wheel with out much thought. An extra 15 could be made with a detailed plan and alot of machine work. 200@ the wheel is rather expensive..crzy!!

[crzycav86]

We'll see how far my budget can take me.

I do lots of fabricating/DIY stuff... so it should take me far.

[keepingthe240]

I wanted to clear it up that increasing the compression 10%increases the cylinder pressure 10% thus increases the torque nearly 10%. The cam that you use with the higher compression determine the higher hp.

[:: orion ::]

Guys, do some reasearch before posting that "10% increase" stuff and confusing the newbs...

Show me some _credible_ source that claims more than 5% and I'll be amazed.

But in the meantime, read here for some actual tested data:

http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofcrc.htm

Notice that's a V8-oriented site...they've been using high compresssion to make more power for way longer than us in the I4 'camp', and know what they're talking about.

Here's the highlites, if you don't want to click the link a learn a little:

Quote »The rule of thumb for the compression ratios run in most street engines is: for every point change in the compression ratio your power output will change by 2%. Using this rule of thumb on an engine that produces 400 hp, every 1 point change in compression ratio will result in approx. a 8hp change in output.[/quote]And I don't mean to be rude here...but you guys need to be a little more educated in this before you start boasting big claims and "easy" HP goals.

- Brian

[crzycav86]

.....how conceited

[:: orion ::]

Not conceited...confident. Very different things...

I've been doing the 240 thing for over 7 years now, and over time, this subject comes up, and we have the same discussion...

Sorry for being an ***, but this has been beaten to death, and it's the same old s***...misinformation, lofty claims, etc...

I'll eat my words when someone shows me a (street car) dyno with +180 N/A...

If you run the numbers...use HP calculators that take into account VE, RPM, displacement, compression...you get less than the numbers being quoted here.

And if I piss you off, I hope it pushes you to build a N/A KA and see for yourself...hell, you may get the right mix and make great power, maybe you'll see over 180.

But I've seen A LOT of people try, and no one has. So it's been tried and tested...no ones done it. And the science says you can't do it...

So I'm confident you won't. Please let us know how far you get, as I can appreciate the hard work it'll take...

Good luck - Brian

[:: orion ::]

Here's some numbers for you to toss around -

I've posted this site in the past, as it pretty much settles these arguments...

http://www.pro-flow.com/tech%20info/mustmath.htm

So plug in the #s for a high-comp KA with good cams (Like JWT, with ~256 duration) that will provide peak power @ ~6200rpm...

HP = [ (AP x CR x VE x CID x RPM) / 792001.6) ]

AP = 14.5CR = We'll use the SOHC pistons here, 11.7:1 at bestVE = 90% (generous for 6200rpm)CID = Stock stroke KA will be 146 cubic inchesRPM = Use 6200 as noted before

[ (14.5 x 11.7 x .9 x 146 x 6200)/792001.6) ] =

138210462/792001.6 = ~175rwhp

There's a theoretical maximum for a street car.

Again, I don't mean to sound ****y...I'm really a modest guy...but I'm also a realist.

Later - Brian

[crzycav86]

Nah, I'm not pissed. I just thought it was kinda funny when you seemingly made the assumption that we were talking out of our asses, and that this was a subject on which we haven't researched(can't speak for the rest of the people, just myself anyway).

[P2Motorsport240sx]

How much do you guys adjust for elevation? Know seems tobe talking about that. I'm from reno,nv and the closest tracks are in sacramento,CA and Fallon,NV(middle of no where). Sac is close to sea level, and Fallon is at about 3000ft. Most people say its about a .8-.6 off your 1/4 mile between the two tracks. Does that sound right? I hit a 15.8 in fallon on used drag radials(20psi) with an intake, exhuast, adjustable struts and sleeves, clutch and a lightened flywheel. And that was with a KA24DE with 190K, full interior and no A/C.

[nissanguy_24]

Here's some numbers for you to toss around -

I've posted this site in the past, as it pretty much settles these arguments...

http://www.pro-flow.com/tech%20info/mustmath.htm

So plug in the #s for a high-comp KA with good cams (Like JWT, with ~256 duration) that will provide peak power @ ~6200rpm...

HP = [ (AP x CR x VE x CID x RPM) / 792001.6) ]

AP = 14.5CR = We'll use the SOHC pistons here, 11.7:1 at bestVE = 90% (generous for 6200rpm)CID = Stock stroke KA will be 146 cubic inchesRPM = Use 6200 as noted before

[ (14.5 x 11.7 x .9 x 146 x 6200)/792001.6) ] =

138210462/792001.6 = ~175rwhp

There's a theoretical maximum for a street car.

Again, I don't mean to sound ****y...I'm really a modest guy...but I'm also a realist.

Later - Brian

Where in this equation does it take in account parasitic loss threw out the drive train. The equation seems sound but its difficult to wrap every variable of an engine to an equation.

I only question it because we all know an engine like that will obviously make more power with lighter smaller underdrive pullies, no AC or Power steering pump to drive and other such things.

Also just playing with some numbers, using 14.7 for atmospheric pressure and 7200 rpm for peak horse power and the same everything else it shows 205 horse power. Most of which comes from that 7200 rpm limit. I know thats alot, probably about the limit of a stock KA, but with an agressive enough cam it shows much more power can be made.

At least thats just playing with the numbers. I wonder what kind of cam it would take to make peak power around 7000 rpms?

[keepingthe240]

I've been busy training for a 100mile bike trip this weekend. lol...it's kinda funny that you just proved me right and you don't even know it. orion. The 9%(gross hp) came from an article i read in a summit catolog(mr. tech section) in the mid 90's. Now we are rating our car at the flywheel...so i raised it to 10% The 256* is kinda mild.you think?? Try a 270* And....prostock motors run a v/e between 110%-120%.<--tunnel ram and alot of tuning!! If i play with the numbers, i'll find 200!! And in the last week since i have posted, the easier it seems to get to 200 with my 9 yrs exp. in american muscle (88-97)

NIssan guy...nassport 240's were making 265+hp and 220+ tq in "98. There making 280+ now. It's about the rod length,the cam and the compression.

[:: orion ::]

Yeah, but the only dyno evidence we have is "Rownan's" car, which did 171 IIRC, with 11:1 compression and all the supporting mods (ECU, cams, I/H/E, etc...).

So on that we can agree to disagree...

But for the 270 degree cam and prostock motors...WTF?

If you show me a KA that makes peak power at +7000, I'll show you a race motor.

Remember, we're talking street cars here...not 13.5:1 compression, 9000rpm, carb'ed, race gas only NASPORT guys.

No KA I've seen can support the RPM needed for a 270* cam, unless it's a custom race motor.

Let's keep this realistic, not $10,000 race motor vs my internally stock KA. We all know it can be done with enough money, but that's not the argument here...

- Brian

[Projex240]

13.9 at 100 pmh with I/H/E 3 inch hi flow cat, and a 75 shot. Open diff too--this was a while back. The motor is stock internally, and has s13 cams. Jwt ecu was added later after the runalso an msd and a flywheel--im going back with the LSD and jwt ecu--but im getting turbo soon--maybe ill break the 13.9. Im hoping for 13 flat with thr turbo.

[dubstyles240]

i'm best time with a bone stock 91 5 speed hatchback

r/t : .5231/4 : 15.6mph: 87.78

i did that too in my 96 5 speed.... no mods ... better r/t though:D

[ultimatuc]

14.3 @ 98 w/ street tires.

I'm taking my helmet and slicks next week.

[Altiman94]

here we need a helmet with a 14.999 or better.

[ni*2*ss*4*an*0*]

just wanted to stick my two cents in...i have a 95 ka24de car with the following mods:je 11.0:1 pistonscrower rodscustom ground camspolished crankport and polished headblock bored .40 over370cc injectorsjwt ecminjen intake300 fuel pump underdrive pulleysbored throttle body and intakealuminum flywheel

i have to agree with orion the best i could get on the dyno with 104 octane gas was 178 rwhp and 182 torque and mind you this is three years worth of tuning....if you can beat good luck my friend and start digging deep in your pockets.....yes i do drive this car to work every day in the summer...full roll cage and all!!!

this is a road race/autocross car but i did the drag race thing two weeks ago and ran a 14.1

[ultimatuc]

^bs. dont lie dood.

your 178 rwhp and that et doesnt add up. why didnt you post your speed?

[crzycav86]

just wanted to stick my two cents in...i have a 95 ka24de car with the following mods:je 11.0:1 pistonscrower rodscustom ground camspolished crankport and polished headblock bored .40 over370cc injectorsjwt ecminjen intake300 fuel pump underdrive pulleysbored throttle body and intakealuminum flywheel

i have to agree with orion the best i could get on the dyno with 104 octane gas was 178 rwhp and 182 torque and mind you this is three years worth of tuning....if you can beat good luck my friend and start digging deep in your pockets.....yes i do drive this car to work every day in the summer...full roll cage and all!!!

this is a road race/autocross car but i did the drag race thing two weeks ago and ran a 14.1

What about the exhaust? Did you leave the stock one on? If so, you could have got a lot more gains from your intake setup.Oh yeah, welcome to NICO.

^bs. dont lie dood.

your 178 rwhp and that et doesnt add up. why didnt you post your speed?

Don't be so quick to call bs. Don't forget weight reduction..