allensteiner wrote:the nwp site says 8hp gain, i don't think it's worth the money especially that it only reduces the intake air temp - which you can achieve with a cai. org members always deffend their mods because they don't want to look stupid for spending a bunch of money on mods that don't give noticeable gains.as for the chips that plug into the iat sensor - they don't void the warranty because you remove the temp probe and plug it in the connector.

best thread i saw on the org - mods you regret doing

btw velocity will not be increased in a na motor. the rule is that the longer the path something has to travel the more loss in velocity - unless free falling from a roof top - or something like that. the only way to speed air up is to go fi.

8whp for a VQ30. He's got an A33 so VQ35, therefore 10-12whp. Better than a CAI or catback from a $/hp stance.

Couldn't agree with you more, THT, about the ECU upgrades - JWT and Technosquare are the only legit sources out there, depending on which year of Maxima we're talking about.

But I've really got to take serious exception to your comments about Cattman headers. You could not be more wrong, and there is plenty of dyno data and track results that back that up. I don't post much on this forum, but I cannot stand by when this kind of misinformation is casually passed off as fact.

First, replacing VQ35DE stock manifolds with VQ30DE manifolds has little effect. The only difference between them is eliminating the precats, and that's only good for 4-5whp. Suggesting that someone can actually make 20-30whp by cobbling together VQ30DE stock manifolds with a cheap VQ30DE y-pipe for a VQ35DE motor is rediculous. That combination will - at best - make about the same power as putting a y-pipe on (and taking the precats off) a VQ30DE motor. The gain might be a bit less since the stock y-pipe on the VQ35DE motor flows more efficiently than the stock y-pipe on a VQ30DE. Keep in mind that replacing manifolds and y-pipe will take the typical mechanic 5-6 hours to install (same as headers).

Think about it. Y-pipes eliminate both precats on 95-99 Maximas and one of two on 99-01 Maximas (and make 11-13whp), so why would installing a y-pipe and removing the precats on an 02/03 Maxima make 2-2.5x as much power? Doesn't happen, can't happen.

Just so we drive a stake into the heart of any related misinformation, claims of any y-pipe making over about 14whp are without basis. We've seen Cattman y-pipes dyno that high on a few strong motors, but since Cattman y-pipes consistenly outperform other brands by 2-3whp no one else has done better. [Yes, I've seen the several-year-old dyno shot showing a y-pipe making 20whp. Anyone who knows squat about how Maximas dyno can see that the before run is bogus, held down about 10whp, and the after run is only average for a Max w/ y-pipe.]

Much worse is your claim that the Cattman header/y-pipe system only increases power by 2% on a VQ35DE motor. 2% of 220whp is just 4.4whp... Do you really believe that hundreds of the most serious Maxima enthusiasts out there have installed our system and fooled themselves when it doesn't even make 5whp? There is dyno after dyno, time slip after time slip, and street race after street race that says what you claim is wrong.

Pure and simple, our header/y-pipe system will easily dyno at 25whp on a manual tranny 02/03 Maxima with typical bolt-ons, and it will make 22-23whp on the same car with an auto tranny. On a 00-01 VQ30DE subtract 2-3whp, and on a 95-99 VQ30DE subtract 3-4whp.

That's not blowing smoke, that's a fact. We manage our dyno testing very carefully during product development, there's no BS, no cherry picking of low and high runs, etc. We do the before and after tests within 24 hours, on the same equipment, same technician, same tank of gas. You can accuse us of fixing the dyno results if you like, but you would be wrong again.

Because of where Cattman exhaust parts are positioned in the market, we often run into the attitude that if our parts are more than someone wants to spend, then we're obviously screwing them (charging too much and/or the parts don't do what we claim they do), and that seems to be the case here.

Our parts aren't cheap, but customers that know how our US-made exhaust parts perform, how easily they install, and how long they last, know they're the best value out there. Customers that know us REALLY well also know that the parts are expensive simply because they cost a lot to produce to our standards, our profit margins are a joke.

We don't make any compromises in the way Cattman exhaust parts are designed, the way they're fabricated (TIG-welded), or in the materials and components we use, and this applies to all of the Cattman exhaust parts we sell. Cheaper is very seldom better, and in the case of our parts you really do get what you pay for.

I don't want to get going at length on the NWP phenolic spacer kit - although we sell them I don't really have a dog in that fight - but I'll toss out that based on track and dyno feedback from our customers it does pretty much what it claims to do (within a hp or two, anyway). Given the price of high-grade phenolic material, the CNC requirements for milling it exactly, and the outstanding integration of the kit that Aaron prepares (this guy takes "detail oriented" to a whole new level), I can't agree that its overpriced. I'm prompted to wonder how people can publicly claim something's overpriced when they haven't a clue about the direct and indirect costs of production, and of course this applies to our parts as well.

A good CAI will also help lower the temp of incoming air, but the NWP spacer kit does the same thing in a different way. Cooler air = more O2 = more hp, that's elemental physics, you can't get too much of it. Its not the first mod I'd suggest putting on a car, but once you've done all the obvious stuff and you're picking up the bits and pieces left on the table, the NWP kit makes perfect sense.

That's it. Please accept that its not my intent to piss anybody off - it never serves a business well to get into a pissing match on a forum - but when I run across false information about one of our most popular and successful parts, I've just gotta set the record straight. This isn't a difference of opinion, its the difference between correct and incorrect.

Brian C CattsCattman Performance

allensteiner wrote:the nwp site says 8hp gain, i don't think it's worth the money especially that it only reduces the intake air temp - which you can achieve with a cai. org members always deffend their mods because they don't want to look stupid for spending a bunch of money on mods that don't give noticeable gains.as for the chips that plug into the iat sensor - they don't void the warranty because you remove the temp probe and plug it in the connector.

best thread i saw on the org - mods you regret doing

btw velocity will not be increased in a na motor. the rule is that the longer the path something has to travel the more loss in velocity - unless free falling from a roof top - or something like that. the only way to speed air up is to go fi.

i agree on everything especially on the .org members thats why i stick to nico and i looked into the velocity thing and your right but mainly the cost it not worth the outcome on nwp spacers

p.s. .org members are a bunch of idea bashers and modders anyway not real techs but i do give it to that are

Cattman wrote:Couldn't agree with you more, THT, about the ECU upgrades - JWT and Technosquare are the only legit sources out there, depending on which year of Maxima we're talking about.

But I've really got to take serious exception to your comments about Cattman headers. You could not be more wrong, and there is plenty of dyno data and track results that back that up. I don't post much on this forum, but I cannot stand by when this kind of misinformation is casually passed off as fact.

First, replacing VQ35DE stock manifolds with VQ30DE manifolds has little effect. The only difference between them is eliminating the precats, and that's only good for 4-5whp. Suggesting that someone can actually make 20-30whp by cobbling together VQ30DE stock manifolds with a cheap VQ30DE y-pipe for a VQ35DE motor is rediculous. That combination will - at best - make about the same power as putting a y-pipe on (and taking the precats off) a VQ30DE motor. The gain might be a bit less since the stock y-pipe on the VQ35DE motor flows more efficiently than the stock y-pipe on a VQ30DE. Keep in mind that replacing manifolds and y-pipe will take the typical mechanic 5-6 hours to install (same as headers).

Think about it. Y-pipes eliminate both precats on 95-99 Maximas and one of two on 99-01 Maximas (and make 11-13whp), so why would installing a y-pipe and removing the precats on an 02/03 Maxima make 2-2.5x as much power? Doesn't happen, can't happen.

Just so we drive a stake into the heart of any related misinformation, claims of any y-pipe making over about 14whp are without basis. We've seen Cattman y-pipes dyno that high on a few strong motors, but since Cattman y-pipes consistenly outperform other brands by 2-3whp no one else has done better. [Yes, I've seen the several-year-old dyno shot showing a y-pipe making 20whp. Anyone who knows squat about how Maximas dyno can see that the before run is bogus, held down about 10whp, and the after run is only average for a Max w/ y-pipe.]

Much worse is your claim that the Cattman header/y-pipe system only increases power by 2% on a VQ35DE motor. 2% of 220whp is just 4.4whp... Do you really believe that hundreds of the most serious Maxima enthusiasts out there have installed our system and fooled themselves when it doesn't even make 5whp? There is dyno after dyno, time slip after time slip, and street race after street race that says what you claim is wrong.

Pure and simple, our header/y-pipe system will easily dyno at 25whp on a manual tranny 02/03 Maxima with typical bolt-ons, and it will make 22-23whp on the same car with an auto tranny. On a 00-01 VQ30DE subtract 2-3whp, and on a 95-99 VQ30DE subtract 3-4whp.

That's not blowing smoke, that's a fact. We manage our dyno testing very carefully during product development, there's no BS, no cherry picking of low and high runs, etc. We do the before and after tests within 24 hours, on the same equipment, same technician, same tank of gas. You can accuse us of fixing the dyno results if you like, but you would be wrong again.

Because of where Cattman exhaust parts are positioned in the market, we often run into the attitude that if our parts are more than someone wants to spend, then we're obviously screwing them (charging too much and/or the parts don't do what we claim they do), and that seems to be the case here.

Our parts aren't cheap, but customers that know how our US-made exhaust parts perform, how easily they install, and how long they last, know they're the best value out there. Customers that know us REALLY well also know that the parts are expensive simply because they cost a lot to produce to our standards, our profit margins are a joke.

We don't make any compromises in the way Cattman exhaust parts are designed, the way they're fabricated (TIG-welded), or in the materials and components we use, and this applies to all of the Cattman exhaust parts we sell. Cheaper is very seldom better, and in the case of our parts you really do get what you pay for.

I don't want to get going at length on the NWP phenolic spacer kit - although we sell them I don't really have a dog in that fight - but I'll toss out that based on track and dyno feedback from our customers it does pretty much what it claims to do (within a hp or two, anyway). Given the price of high-grade phenolic material, the CNC requirements for milling it exactly, and the outstanding integration of the kit that Aaron prepares (this guy takes "detail oriented" to a whole new level), I can't agree that its overpriced. I'm prompted to wonder how people can publicly claim something's overpriced when they haven't a clue about the direct and indirect costs of production, and of course this applies to our parts as well.

A good CAI will also help lower the temp of incoming air, but the NWP spacer kit does the same thing in a different way. Cooler air = more O2 = more hp, that's elemental physics, you can't get too much of it. Its not the first mod I'd suggest putting on a car, but once you've done all the obvious stuff and you're picking up the bits and pieces left on the table, the NWP kit makes perfect sense.

That's it. Please accept that its not my intent to piss anybody off - it never serves a business well to get into a pissing match on a forum - but when I run across false information about one of our most popular and successful parts, I've just gotta set the record straight. This isn't a difference of opinion, its the difference between correct and incorrect.

Brian C CattsCattman Performance

Brian,

I can respect your position, I have posted on my former enthusiast websites in the same manner when needed.

I would love to see a cost work up on a full exhaust.

Thanks for your interest, I'll send you an email regarding the exhaust.

Brian
Modified by Cattman at 6:43 PM 9/9/2008

I have a friend that talks to some austrailians in regards to tuning with factory ECUs. He put a ODB1 on his S14 and did something to where he can now tune his S14 with his laptop. It was like 500 for everything he needed and he tuned it while he was driving which i am sure is not safe but whatever. I will ask him when i see him next time and hopefully i can find the thread when i come back with the information.

he's lucky because the s14 is tunable...we're not without a daughter board. he should've looked because there's a guy on ebay that sells chips etc for nissans cheap. i got my consult cable for the laptop from him. check him out, seller is drape123.