I was snooping around on a honda forum (www.clubsi.com) and i came across a post about using paint thinner as a cheap and superior octane booster - Paint thinner in the gas tank. i thought it would be good usefull info for the KA turbo guys. seems like a cheap alternative to buying the weak octane boosters found in stores. the ingredient is toluene and it is in the pump gas you already buy.
plus this good info page about using toluene - http://www.gnttype.org/techare....html
any thoughts on this?
Paint Thinner and Octane boosting
Yeah.. toluene as an octane booster has been around for a while. It's what they used in the turbo Indy cars of the 80's, apparently. It has an octane rating of 114 and is pretty cheap/easy to get at any paint store. I plan on running it whenever I get a turbo car (never), as its quite a bit cheaper than 110 race gas.
It's also one of the main ingredients of TNT, for whatever that's worth.
It's also one of the main ingredients of TNT, for whatever that's worth.
Toluene is the active ingredient in some performanc eoctane boosters, and I have used it before, I was using it to clean out my already cleaned out fuel system (just precautions, I like my engine being in tip top shape) nothing happened, just remember to put in no more than 1.3L per fill up,
however, if you need 110 race gas, then you should probably look into alcohol or water injection, that **** is WAY more cost effective and more performance oriented than Toluene or even ahaving to run 110 race gas,
however, if you need 110 race gas, then you should probably look into alcohol or water injection, that **** is WAY more cost effective and more performance oriented than Toluene or even ahaving to run 110 race gas,
Toluene is a great additive to have with you if you must fill up with questionable gas. It's not the cheapest, but it is highly effective. I've used it plenty of times (in KS where there is no pump 93+ octane), and most of my friends who are turboed use it as a booster. I wouldn't run it straight, unless you want to spend $100+ on every tank of fuel...
a gallon of Toluene cost me $8...if you put 1.3L of it (about a third of the gallon) you get a 100+octane mixture, now tell me where you can fill up a tank of gas, with 100+octane gas, for $25 if you pay the awful gas prices in Seattle and fill up from the "E" to full...
it is VERY cost effective, and in NO way are you "short cutting"
it is VERY cost effective, and in NO way are you "short cutting"
apparently, every time you buy gas, you are buying a percentage of toluene, andrave.
over priced, store bought octane boosters BARELY boost your octane...plus they turn you plugs rusty red.also, some high octane race gas is leaded. you wouldn't even think of running that in a daily driver. not that i'm saying anyone would run high *** octane on a daily basis...
i thought this would be some good info for the KAT guys, because it's a cheap method of reducing detonation and making the turbo run NICE.
now, if you're going to the track, by all means buy the 'better' race gas..but for daily driving this is great. i think canada gets a higher octane pump gas. america gets 92...canada goes a little higher.
over priced, store bought octane boosters BARELY boost your octane...plus they turn you plugs rusty red.also, some high octane race gas is leaded. you wouldn't even think of running that in a daily driver. not that i'm saying anyone would run high *** octane on a daily basis...
i thought this would be some good info for the KAT guys, because it's a cheap method of reducing detonation and making the turbo run NICE.
now, if you're going to the track, by all means buy the 'better' race gas..but for daily driving this is great. i think canada gets a higher octane pump gas. america gets 92...canada goes a little higher.
america gets "92" but that depends on where you live, someplaces where I live carry "93" as premium and out in higher elevations I'm told 90 or 91 is often the highest you can buy. Of course, there are also a couple places around here that sell "95" or even "97" but they are a lot more expensive. And then the sunoco out by the airport in morgantown sells some really high octane stuff, I think its 107 or 110 or something. Its like 7 dollars a gallon or something though. Not sure, never bought any.
ok, if you friend ran STRAIGHT toluene or xylene, I can tell you right now he has done permanant damage to his engine. People have run 50/50 and burnt thier pistons without trying hard. The freaking F1 rocket fuel from the 80s was only 80%, the other 20% was stabalizing fluid, If million dollar engines couldn't run it straight, I can tell you right now a 4g63 can't for sure.
This idea intrigued me...quite a bit...the site I took off of the honda forums is this:http://www.gnttype.org/techare....htmlWhich says all you need to know about octane boosting.,...good article..
However, what about running pure xylene (xylol) in a mixture of about 10 or 15 %? It's very hard to come by pure toluline...I just tried...the paint thinner stuff they sell has a host of other crap in it..and sherwin williams didn't even have pure toluene...
What do you think, is it worth a shot to try some xylene?
However, what about running pure xylene (xylol) in a mixture of about 10 or 15 %? It's very hard to come by pure toluline...I just tried...the paint thinner stuff they sell has a host of other crap in it..and sherwin williams didn't even have pure toluene...
What do you think, is it worth a shot to try some xylene?
toluene is methyl-benzene, xylene is di-methyl-benzene. Double the methyl double the fun. Toluene is hard to come by other than paint stores because it is the active ingreadiant in chemicals people huff to get high, but paint stores will often carry both. The thing they dont usually tell you though is that the octane rating on T and X are alone, when mixed it goes down some. You can run each at up to 30% mix, but that's as much is safe, and even pushing it a little. the difference between 107 at the conoco and the 111 or whatever you end up with mixing the fuels wont be that great.
The only time I see if being viable to use all the time is running high compression forced induction, where you need it to stave off knock. It can be bought at like $4 or less in 55gal drums, so it could be pretty cost effective. Just have to factor in all the oil you will be buying too to re lube the gas.
The only time I see if being viable to use all the time is running high compression forced induction, where you need it to stave off knock. It can be bought at like $4 or less in 55gal drums, so it could be pretty cost effective. Just have to factor in all the oil you will be buying too to re lube the gas.
"Just have to factor in all the oil you will be buying too to re lube the gas."
What do you mean? That I should mix in some oil if I were to mix in these additives? I wouldn't go above a 20% mixture...can I just pour Xylene (or Toulene...yes, I found some finally) directly in, or do I have to mix it with some oil first, and if so, what kind?
What do you mean? That I should mix in some oil if I were to mix in these additives? I wouldn't go above a 20% mixture...can I just pour Xylene (or Toulene...yes, I found some finally) directly in, or do I have to mix it with some oil first, and if so, what kind?
-
:: orion ::
- Posts: 1483
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 4:40 pm
- Car: '96 240SX, with KA-T @ 12psi...
- Contact:
You need upper cylinder lube to make sure you don't dry things out...
Here's a cut-and-paste from a local DSM owner who's tried it all...alchohol injection, water injection, toulene, race gas (many kinds), etc...
What it boils down to is that C16 is by far the best...but:
Quote »Toluene is good, Xylene is better.
30% by volume is the absolute most you can mix. You need about 1oz of Upper cylinder lubricant per gallon of Xylene to bring the lubrication properties back to square one.
On average I would say you can run about 4psi more than pump gas as it brings the octane very close to 100 if you push the mixture.
The real issue is getting it cheaply. The quote if $2.50/gal on that site is very optimistic. Most of the time it will cost about $30 for a 5gal drums, which works out to about $6.00/gal. At that point the only benefit of using it over a real race fuel is the lead factor. But for $6.00/gal I'd rather get the real stuff...[/quote]Later - Brian
Here's a cut-and-paste from a local DSM owner who's tried it all...alchohol injection, water injection, toulene, race gas (many kinds), etc...
What it boils down to is that C16 is by far the best...but:
Quote »Toluene is good, Xylene is better.
30% by volume is the absolute most you can mix. You need about 1oz of Upper cylinder lubricant per gallon of Xylene to bring the lubrication properties back to square one.
On average I would say you can run about 4psi more than pump gas as it brings the octane very close to 100 if you push the mixture.
The real issue is getting it cheaply. The quote if $2.50/gal on that site is very optimistic. Most of the time it will cost about $30 for a 5gal drums, which works out to about $6.00/gal. At that point the only benefit of using it over a real race fuel is the lead factor. But for $6.00/gal I'd rather get the real stuff...[/quote]Later - Brian
-
:: orion ::
- Posts: 1483
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 4:40 pm
- Car: '96 240SX, with KA-T @ 12psi...
- Contact:
Yes, I've heard stuff about marvel mystery oil as well...I'd rather get that than the UCL from Australia...
Anyway, I wouldn't go above 20% mixture...and I'm not planning on doing this all the time, I'm just trying to test it out, see if it makes any noticeable difference (and no, I haven't had a single issue with detonation since I've turbocharged my engine...)
The plus to Xylene--It's available at the hardware store a mile down the street from me for like $7 a gallon...so you figure $7 more per fill-up. Not too shabby, especially when I'd be adding this to 94 octane....
I'm gonna go and get some toulene tomorrow, see how it goes...I'll keep the site posted@!
Marc
PS...What is C16?!?
Anyway, I wouldn't go above 20% mixture...and I'm not planning on doing this all the time, I'm just trying to test it out, see if it makes any noticeable difference (and no, I haven't had a single issue with detonation since I've turbocharged my engine...)
The plus to Xylene--It's available at the hardware store a mile down the street from me for like $7 a gallon...so you figure $7 more per fill-up. Not too shabby, especially when I'd be adding this to 94 octane....
I'm gonna go and get some toulene tomorrow, see how it goes...I'll keep the site posted@!
Marc
PS...What is C16?!?
MarkEmark wrote:Yes, I've heard stuff about marvel mystery oil as well...
That's what I recall being recommended. about 4 oz per full tank I think for a tank our size.
EDIT: 4oz might be too much actually. I dont know. But you know, one gallon + another 12 gallons of normal, isn't going to jack didly.
Hey, I can't find any local place that carries that marvel mystery oil...any idea if it can be substituted with another fuel additive that places like autozone/advance auto/pep boys carry? I'm only planning on going up to 18 %...and I'm not doing it with a full tank of gas; I want to try it out with just a little first.
Thanks
Thanks