oil pump removal

[jons]

OK, I got the oil pan down enough to get to the oil pump. Still can't get the pan completely out though.

Now, I see 3 of the 4 bolts shown in the service manual that hold the pump in. These bolts go through the front of the block. I see the lower (long) and upper (short) ones on the left side, but only the lower one on the right side.

Is the upper one BEHIND the timing chain cover? That would be terrible, and I would think they would have mentioned this in the FSM. If not, where is it???

Jon.

[jons]

Now I'm confused.To remove the oil pump, the factory manual essentially says "remove oil pan, removed oil pump".But it looks like this pump mounts around the crank. Which means the crank pully has to come off. And, I suspect at least one of the pump bolts is behind the timing cover, which means all sorts of other stuff has to come off.

Is this correct? How could the FSM miss this "trivial" bit of information!

Is there value in parting this car out?

[maxnix]

I think if you check the chain guide threads, your questions will be answered.

[Raxephon]

Just out of curiousity, what car?

NM, I just found your other post.

[Raxephon]

Here's a screenshot from the FAST Catalog, it looks like you have a few bolts in the front to remove as well.

[jons]

Apparently the manual is a bit lacking in this area.There are 3 bolts behind the lower timing cover / crank pulley, hence the belt has to come off. The right side of the pump is captured by the AC compressor mount, so it has to come off too.

But now its out, and I'm looking for the "smoking gun".

There is a definately a shiny wear mark on the edges of the two flats on the crank that drive corresponding flats on the pump. The edges of the pump's flats are shiny too. I can post some pictures of the crank and pump once I figure out how. Could it be that the crank was spinning due to the worn shoulders on the flats?

Jon.

[Raxephon]

....I can post some pictures of the crank and pump once I figure out how.

You have to use an image hosting service like http://www.photobucket.com, and simply copy/paste the "[img][/img]" tag line into your post.

[jons]

Thanks... here's the pics:

What'd'ya'think?

[Raxephon]

Looks like oil changes weren't so important over the years for that motor.

Did you check the strainer for damage/blockage/etc...?

How does the seal for the oil pick-up tube look?

Any dents protruding upwards in the bottom of the oil pan?

Are the edges of the oil pump sprockets sharp or is there enough room for them to spin freely within each other?

Have you disassembled the oil pump yet to see what the insides look like?(sludged solid/dirty/etc...)

What condition is the sending unit for the oil pressure gauge in?

[jons]

I bought this car at about 50K miles, and maintained it very well. Apparently the previous owner, an acquaintence who worked for Infiniti, did not. There's quite a bit of coked oil on the pan and girdle. The car has never overheated or had oil pressure issues since we've had it (now at 136K mi.).

The pickup tube is clean.The pan has no dents.The oil itself is extremely clean and oil filter looks clean. Oil and filter had been changed only a few hundred miles ago.

Here's what the pump looks like inside. Some build-up on the input side, but not sludge, and the gear edges look pretty good to me (but nothing to compare it to).



I fitted the center drive gear to the crankshaft. Although I mentioned some wear marks on the flats, there's seems no way this gear could be slipping on the crank. It does not fit snuggly -- it has some play -- but I don't see how it could slip past the flats.

The oil sender unit "looks" ok. But from previous thread, this is not a sender malfunction. The light started to come on only at idle speeds, then after a few minutes stayed on, then the engine / valve train started making noises. A quick peak in the filler hole before I shut it down showed no oil sloshing up there.

Any recommendation on a vendor for parts?

[maxnix]

There's quite a bit of coked oil on the pan and girdle.

Any recommendation on a vendor for parts?

Please post pictures of the former. Wonder if it was a lease car?

For the latter, without a doubt, call http://www.infinitipartsusa.com

[jons]

This shows it the best:

The rods, rod bearing caps and other more-internal parts do not have any crud build up, like that on the girdle and pump housing. But everything has the golden-brown coloration.

I need to decide whether to put a new pump in and hope for the best, or,just part out the car.

[Q45denver]

Is this a VH45? You might check the clearance on the rod bearings.

[jons]

This is '93 J30 -- VG30DE

[maxnix]

This is '93 J30 -- VG30DE

Whew! That helps.

Should be pretty easy to swap or rebuild.

One guy did get an VG30DETT into a J30. Don't know how successful it was.

[Raxephon]

Is the oil pump sleeve on the crank removable?

I can't find it as an individual component in the FAST catalog anywhere.

[jons]

I really have no desire to swap motors.In fact, my real motivation is to get this running well enough to trade in towards a G35x. If I can't, I will likely part it out.

[jons]

No. The crank has flats machined into it. The drive sleeve in the pump is internal to the pump.

[jons]

Having just wrote that, I should have said, I ASSUME the flats are machined into the crank. It sure looks that way.

[Raxephon]

The "flats" on the crank, can you rotate them without the crankshaft turning as well?

[ScottJackson]

Did you ever hook up an oil pressure gauge to the threaded port where the factory oil sending unit was to see what the actual oil pressure was? That pump appears fine to me but may as well replace it while you're in there and eliminate the possibility that it has too much side clearance between gears and covers. There's a lot of that flaky baked on oil in there. If the oil pick up tube screen is clear, take a rod cap off and check the bearing. That'll give you the best indicator of how the rest of the motor is doing.

[jons]

No, can't rotate flats portion of crank independantly. At least not easily. The flats are machined into the crank, not a collar around the shaft. js.

[jons]

No, I didn't hook up an oil pressure gage. But the warning light, combined with the clacking the engine was starting to make, combined with the absence of any visible oil sloshing in the oil filler oil, kinda makes me think there really was no oil pressure.

I'm trying to think what else could be wrong.

What if the oil pump's regulator valve was stuck open -- that would create a bypass within the pump. Hmmm, let me take a look.

[jons]

Pressure reg. valve seems OK. Definately not stuck open.

Well now I have to admit I feel a bit stupid. In desperation to find some blockage, I took another look at the pickup tube. What I initially thought was an oil-soaked filter screen, I now think is clogged up with the same black coked/carbon crud that's on the girdle and outside of the pump. Oil gets through it, but it has to be causing a major restriction. I think this is the "smoking gun" I've been looking for. I'll try to clean it up, otherwise I'll replace it.

It'll be a while before I can get everything cleaned up and back together. I'll report back how it goes.

js.

[ScottJackson]

That'd probably be it. Soak it in a small plastic tub with some gas in it. If that don't work, maybe try some mineral spirits. Then try to get as much of that stuff out of the oil pan and off the block as you can. I'd suggest taking a rod cap off anyway and check the bearing just in case there was damage done. When you get it together and as much of that stuff out as you can, run some BG oil flush stuff in it and drain the junk out.

[jons]

That's the plan Scott. Do you know if the front/rear gasket strips on the oil pan have to be replaced on re-assembly or can they be re-used? I would put a coat of gasket sealer on them if re-used.

There's also a seal ring on the front of pump that I'll replace.

Thanks,js

[jons]

Just to finish up this thread:Everything put back together.Spun the motor with spark plugs out, oil pressure came right up.Plugs in, fired right up.Driver's side cam shaft screaming like a banshee.Cam and/or cam journal are/is toast.

Anyone interested in J30 parts?

jls.

[jons]

Thought I'd post this much-better end to this thread.Apparently after sitting for a few days, whatever was screeching before has gone away. Maybe it was just a belt????

Anyway, I fired it up just to move the car out of my garage while I figured out what to do next, and it sounded fine! Idled perfectly, drove perfectly.

I had added some aggressive engine cleaner, so I drained it after a few minutes of running and replaced the filter. Nothing unusual in the drained oil or filter. I'll do this again in a couple of weeks.

Looks like we get to continue to enjoy this car for a while longer.

Only thing wrong now is a flakey radio ... new thread.

Thanks for everyone's input.