i love this thread!

are there any dangers from having that propane carb so close to the heat of the turbo manifold?

QUOTE=Sil240]Awesome build!!!! Def not your run of the mill swap/build. What did you do about the injector holes in the ITM? You should def look into how much pressure a water to air IC would hold? Have you mastered the Black Art of Carb tuning yet? I saw somewhere on the net a nice write up and pics to help. Don't know if this would apply to your Propane Carb though. What you should do also when you get it running perfectly is, take it to a gas station and have them run it through the emissions test. Just to see how clean that thing is.[/QUOTE]The injectors are still in the manifold for now. I might weld them up someday unless we decide to go propane injection in the future.I have not got the carb 100% figured out lol. Im as lean as I can go as for the ccarb adjustments. Im gonna try filling up the fuel valve with apoxy and then make my own grooves alot smaller and see how much it will lean it out. Also might try doubling up my spring on the converter so it takes more boost pressure to open it up cause as it sets just vacuum and no boost will open the converter wideopen.As for the carb and manifold heat. It actually is better being close to the manifold. It will keep any liquid propane from making it to my manifold and causing a fuel lock.But I still have alot of tests to do. I have not ran out of idea's yet and it seems every mod I do it gets better and better. So will keep modding lol

rb25drag wrote:Well my ideal a/f is around 12-12.5 wot. Propane you can run leaner than gas.

Mid 12's is perfecto for 100+ octane. I'm tuned right at like 12-12.5 WOT running 101 octane.

Well they rate propane at 110octain so mid 12's should be ideal.

nice man congrats for a bad a** unique setup man.

HxC_Nismo wrote:nice man congrats for a bad a** unique setup man.

Thanks man, its gettin there. I def have made alot of progress. Hope to have some good numbers soon to prove it all. I should be layin down some 6sec passes at the track. Thats all I want.

Well boys made alot of Progress tonight. Finally figured out my Rich issue. I had my Vacuum lines to my fuel converter unbalanced. had The main Vacuum line coming off the converter Straight to my IC piping by the turbo. So it was Actually reading Boost WAY before it should causing it to open my Converter Wide open dumping tons of fuel Until the Intake Finally reached enough boost to balance the Converter back out and get the A/f leaned out lol. Hope that made any sense at all.

Good news is it @15psi the a/f is 12.0 @7500rpm lol Man it really runs strong. Really surprising. I think i need to add a little more timing up top. Im Currently running 25.5 Degree's WOT @6500-7500, It wants to loose a little around 7000.

Im going to try and get the boost up to around 18-19 and then were going to Dyno fine tune on the timing

So for those thats been waiting like me. Its a Success, You really would Just have to ride in it and experience it in person to see how it all works.

Oh I forgot. We compaired the Air to air intercooler vs the Propane Cooler I built 1st.

Results

Air to Air After 5 street pulls went from 80degree intake temps to 140 Degree temps.

Propane Cooler with a/c condenser went from 90 degree's to 105-110 after 10 pulls on the Dyno back to back with no down time or shutting the car off.

So results Propane cooler Works well over the Air to air.

Now Im in the Process of building a new Intercooler. Its going to feature a Propane to water design. Which I believe will cut those 100 degree temps in HALF!! So stay tuned for the results.

sick! congrats on getting some of the bugs worked out...now time for some vid action

That car is ganna sound like a monster!!! Props for all the hard work.

Thanks guys, It really has came along ways.

I got a few more runs tonight. Although it started smoking some blue oil smoke out tonight. I think either my turbo needs an oil restrictor or I blew the seals in the turbo< which it only has about 100 miles on it so far. So I gotts figure out what is up with it now lol.

Well I got a little update.

I been working on the new IC design. Its all done except the end caps and 4 fittings.

Here is a sneak peak:







As you can tell its a little odd design lol

The Theory behind it is I am using the Copper tubing as you can see it inside the box. Im running my Propane Fuel threw that tubing to cool The water that will fill the entire container and will Ice down the IC pipe that goes threw the center. Now Obviously you cannot cool just a Straight threw pipe and expect it to work. So I designed some runners inside the pipe to Slow down the air just enough to get fully cooled before exiting the IC without restricting the flow of the IC.

Now the water system is going to be setup with a 5gal fuel cell in the truck with a water pump flowing the water threw the IC to get full cooling ability.

Now the cool thing about this design is If the Propane will not cool 100% of what I expect. The all I gotta do is add some ICE to my duel cell and It should work Like a Dry Ice system.

I should have this finished and installed in a few weeks.

So you guys think it will work? Or am I still in my own world on this?

sounds good in theroy but you're gonna need more fins to dissapate heat...why not get an off the shelf charger cooler designed for a water to air system and just pass the propane thru that?or make it a true charge cooler with a dedicated tank and radiator and run the propane lines into the resivor to cool the water in the resivor that way you are cooling the water with not only ambient air but also the propane.

Carl H wrote:sounds good in theroy but you're gonna need more fins to dissapate heat...why not get an off the shelf charger cooler designed for a water to air system and just pass the propane thru that?or make it a true charge cooler with a dedicated tank and radiator and run the propane lines into the resivor to cool the water in the resivor that way you are cooling the water with not only ambient air but also the propane.

The fins go threw the entire pipe. 28" worth. Should be plenty I think lol

But you have a couple of good idea's urself. If this one does not work I will be back to the drawing boards.

Been watching for awhile, awesome build.Why didn't you spiral the copper tubing around the pipe with fins?Metal yards around where I live sell 3" to 8" aluminum piping for street lamps an stuff. Might work better for a spiral. Give you any idea's?

Fibre guy wrote:Been watching for awhile, awesome build.Why didn't you spiral the copper tubing around the pipe with fins?Metal yards around where I live sell 3" to 8" aluminum piping for street lamps an stuff. Might work better for a spiral. Give you any idea's?

Well My first I deal was to use the copper and wrap it around the IC piping. But then i Got to thinking about how the copper would only cool the spots it is touching. So my idea next was to use a liquid around the piping to cool the entire pipe. So Then I decided to use the Copper tubing to cool the water which cools the IC Piping all the way around for the most cooling ability. If that makes sense.

Makes perfect sense.

What are you going to be using for the cooling median??

Not just the copper spiral but use the water too. If I'm understanding correctly you want the largest amount of surface area to transfer heat from the intake charge to the propane fuel in the copper line.Why not use your idea of using water to help the dissipation of heat while using a spiral design. The reason I commented about large diameter piping was to make a very close fitting outer case.If 1/2 copper tubing was spiraled around a pipe with a 1/2" space between each wrap to let water spiral around, you not only would get more copper touching the intake pipe but the water would be forced to travel a spiraled path allowing it to absorb as much heat as possible before it exits.

Sorry for the long explanation but there's no use wasting a good idea.

TJcars2 wrote:Makes perfect sense.

What are you going to be using for the cooling median??

Median? Not sure exactly what your asking.

Fibre guy wrote:Not just the copper spiral but use the water too. If I'm understanding correctly you want the largest amount of surface area to transfer heat from the intake charge to the propane fuel in the copper line.Why not use your idea of using water to help the dissipation of heat while using a spiral design. The reason I commented about large diameter piping was to make a very close fitting outer case.If 1/2 copper tubing was spiraled around a pipe with a 1/2" space between each wrap to let water spiral around, you not only would get more copper touching the intake pipe but the water would be forced to travel a spiraled path allowing it to absorb as much heat as possible before it exits.

Sorry for the long explanation but there's no use wasting a good idea.

Thats a goood Idea, I see where your going with it.

The only thing I see wrong is I dont think You would have enough water/cooling time if the water ran threw the spirals only with tight clearances. Now if the water was PRE-cooled it would prob work great.

The way I have this one setup is, I got enough water volume that after a certain amout of running time/ Prob 5 mins time enough for the motor to get warmed up. The water should be getting cold, When it does there will be enough volume in the container to keep the heat moving out of the pipe without the water loosing all of its cooling ability. I also will have the IC pump hooked up on a toggle switch.

The way you are suggesting I dont think it would have enough water volume to cool 100%. It would be like throwing a t-spoon of water on a Hot skillet vs a cup of water. Which would cool the skillet the most?

If my current Idea doesnt work, Im def open to peoples Idea's. I like to fabricate so I will attempt most anything as most has seen.

What size hose, pump, and cooler do you plan on using for the water?

Fibre guy wrote:What size hose, pump, and cooler do you plan on using for the water?

No cooler. Just a pump from my tank in the trunk to the intercooler.

Not sure on The pump or line size yet. Im watching a pump on Ebay thats for a water to air IC system.

Watch out with most of the ebay ones. Sometimes they are just retagged boat bilge pumps that are only meant to be ran for like 5 mins with a major power drain...Maybe you might want to look into a full-time, low power bilge pump as a cheaper and more reliable alternative?

Yeah I know alot of ebay crap is crap lol.

I can buy a small pump from my local parts store for around 50$. Which is prob what I will do. But im not too that point yet. But I will be next week lol.

I also Figured out another one of my turbo issues again. The Stock Block fitting is killing me!! Damn nissan. I figured out tonight that the stock feed line bolt is restricted Internal also. I guess thats why I have smoked my turbo twice now!!

I shall not smoke it 3 times!! HAHA

Precision says I done 502$ worth of damage this time. Im elliminating the stock block bange fitting. Its costed me some $$ lol

Did you have the block acid dipped or air gun the he!! out of the oil paths before you threw it in?

when I built the motor (2yrs ago) it wass dipped in the hot tank for about 2days. To this day the oil is clean enough to drink. There is no black or even a dark tint to the oil. Internally its as clean as you can get it. The motor prob only has 4-5k miles from the 2yrs ive had it built.

rb25drag wrote:Well I got a little update.

I been working on the new IC design. Its all done except the end caps and 4 fittings.

Here is a sneak peak:







As you can tell its a little odd design lol

The Theory behind it is I am using the Copper tubing as you can see it inside the box. Im running my Propane Fuel threw that tubing to cool The water that will fill the entire container and will Ice down the IC pipe that goes threw the center. Now Obviously you cannot cool just a Straight threw pipe and expect it to work. So I designed some runners inside the pipe to Slow down the air just enough to get fully cooled before exiting the IC without restricting the flow of the IC.

Now the water system is going to be setup with a 5gal fuel cell in the truck with a water pump flowing the water threw the IC to get full cooling ability.

Now the cool thing about this design is If the Propane will not cool 100% of what I expect. The all I gotta do is add some ICE to my duel cell and It should work Like a Dry Ice system.

I should have this finished and installed in a few weeks.

So you guys think it will work? Or am I still in my own world on this?

I'm sorry, but that will not work at all.. if you're lucky your dT would be a drop of maybe 1-2 degrees..

sepulchralx wrote:I'm sorry, but that will not work at all.. if you're lucky your dT would be a drop of maybe 1-2 degrees..

So what makes it not work? I have already proven the Propane will cool the Intake temps better than air to air can. And that was with a cooler that was 12x12 with a a/c condensor in it that was only 3" thick. Thats all the cooling it received and I was able to get 110degree's constent threw 20 dyno pulls @ 90 degree's outside temps.This cooler not only has 28" of cooling ability. But it also has water as a heat soak.So how could it not be better than what I had?A air to air cooler runs in the 120-180 degree range.

The problem with your cooler is that the air going throu it is hot. And yes its got 4 x 28" x 2" worth of area to exchange heat with.(Not including the ID of the tube)

But.... that is only the air that comes in contact with those 4 blades.(Not including the ID of the tube)

Then lets say those 4 blades soak up tons of heat, they only have 4 28" x .039" area to exchange the heat with the cooled water.(Not including the ID of the tube)

You should really just pick up one of those ebay A2W IC's. You could probably get one for 50-75 bucks.

Or if you can weld get a cheap A2A then box it in with some sheet metal and put your copper tubing on both sides (face and backside).That way you still have the characteristics of the A2A IC but you have a better temp differential.

If you think about it a regular A2A IC has miles more internal surface area then yours does.You should try to mimic that without killing the flow.

Not trying to knock your idea.Its good, you just need to go about it another way.

I agree with you chaps. There doesn't look to be close to enough cooling surface area.

Now watch, he's going to bash all of us when he proves us wrong.