Official 2011-13 M56/Q70 5.6L Timing Chain Recall Discussion

Forum for Infiniti M37, M56 M35h Hybrid and Q70 owners.
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Big_Tone
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Called for an update earlier today and was told they should be done by Friday.


walt1227
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Do they take the front bumper off to do the timing chain?

Vapingmadmechanic
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Hey everybody, I'm an Infiniti Master Tech and can answer any questions you might have regarding this recall. Let me know.

I'd like to address a few things I see popping up in this thread...
First: If you had the original service bulletin done for the whining noise, you should not need to have the recall work performed. It's the same procedure and the same parts. They changed the way we get the parts though, instead of ordering separate chain guides and chains, they come as a kit for each side of the motor. It looks like a lot of parts, but that's because the engineers who designed the vehicle said that "x" part can't be changed without removing/replacing parts "y and z." So in order to do the repair job, we have to follow their rules or they will kick the claim and the dealer will be charged back the price of the repair.

Secondly: Please bear with us (the dealership service departments), there are a ton of these recalls out there to do and it takes one guy pretty much all day to do one of these, sometimes a little longer depending on what other work he has to do. My dealership usually has about 5 or 6 lined up ready to be done at all times and we have 6 technicians. You might think that we could get 5 done a day, but remember that our normal workload has not decreased, so we still have all of out other clients to take care of as well. We want you to have a loaner car to drive in the meantime and reduce the downtime of your car, so if we schedule your appointment for some point in the distant future, know that we are really trying to convienence you. IF your vehicle starts making that terrible whining noise on start-up please call your dealer and let them know. They will most likely bump your appointment up to get you in immediately.

Please remove any aftermarket parts it makes our job easier and gets your car back to you quicker. If you want any of the work from the bulletins that some have mentioned here done, expect to be told you will have to pay if your car is out of warranty. Any ECM reprogramming can be done under Emissions warranty (8yrs/80k), but don't walk in there with a printout and demand for this to be done. Even if you found it on the internet, just mention the symptoms that are listed in the bulletin and let the tech do his job. In all honesty, we dread when someone comes in with a stack of service bulletins printed out asking for a bunch of work to be done for free.

Let me know if you have any questions. I'm glad to help.

Vapingmadmechanic
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walt1227 wrote:Do they take the front bumper off to do the timing chain?
No. At least they shouldn't. I don't know what kind of tech you might have.

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Ilya
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Vapingmadmechanic wrote:Hey everybody, I'm an Infiniti Master Tech and can answer any questions you might have regarding this recall. Let me know.

I'd like to address a few things I see popping up in this thread...
First: If you had the original service bulletin done for the whining noise, you should not need to have the recall work performed. It's the same procedure and the same parts. They changed the way we get the parts though, instead of ordering separate chain guides and chains, they come as a kit for each side of the motor. It looks like a lot of parts, but that's because the engineers who designed the vehicle said that "x" part can't be changed without removing/replacing parts "y and z." So in order to do the repair job, we have to follow their rules or they will kick the claim and the dealer will be charged back the price of the repair.

Secondly: Please bear with us (the dealership service departments), there are a ton of these recalls out there to do and it takes one guy pretty much all day to do one of these, sometimes a little longer depending on what other work he has to do. My dealership usually has about 5 or 6 lined up ready to be done at all times and we have 6 technicians. You might think that we could get 5 done a day, but remember that our normal workload has not decreased, so we still have all of out other clients to take care of as well. We want you to have a loaner car to drive in the meantime and reduce the downtime of your car, so if we schedule your appointment for some point in the distant future, know that we are really trying to convienence you. IF your vehicle starts making that terrible whining noise on start-up please call your dealer and let them know. They will most likely bump your appointment up to get you in immediately.

Please remove any aftermarket parts it makes our job easier and gets your car back to you quicker. If you want any of the work from the bulletins that some have mentioned here done, expect to be told you will have to pay if your car is out of warranty. Any ECM reprogramming can be done under Emissions warranty (8yrs/80k), but don't walk in there with a printout and demand for this to be done. Even if you found it on the internet, just mention the symptoms that are listed in the bulletin and let the tech do his job. In all honesty, we dread when someone comes in with a stack of service bulletins printed out asking for a bunch of work to be done for free.

Let me know if you have any questions. I'm glad to help.
Welcome to the forum! Nice to see another master tech in here with (I presume) an M.

Do you have the ability to run VINs and see what bulletins have been done? My service lady, although good, has seemed to 'overlook' the ECM/TCM updates I've inquired about the last few visits and I'm done asking her...would love to know if there was a way for me to confirm it via my VIN or some other way.

Thanks again for your post.

Vapingmadmechanic
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I cannot look that up by VIN, but if you can get me your ECM/TCM part numbers I can see if they are the most up to date versions.

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Ilya
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Vapingmadmechanic wrote:I cannot look that up by VIN, but if you can get me your ECM/TCM part numbers I can see if they are the most up to date versions.
I can probably get you that by using a parts site online, however, will that tell you the software version? I would assume I have the same ECU (and thus part number) the car came with back in 2011...but the software may or may not be changed. Or do you mean I should unflash UpRev and go back to stock and see what part number UpRev sees? In that case, the ECM Part # UpRev shows is: 23710-1MP9E. When it's UpRev flashed, it reads: 23710-1MP9E-UpRev Flashed ECU.

Vapingmadmechanic
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1MP9E is what I need. For some reason whenever the module is reprogrammed, it changes the "part number" even though the number on the physical part stays the same obviously. I will check that for you today.

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Ilya
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Vapingmadmechanic wrote:1MP9E is what I need. For some reason whenever the module is reprogrammed, it changes the "part number" even though the number on the physical part stays the same obviously. I will check that for you today.
Ahh, understood. Thank you!

Vapingmadmechanic
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Ilya wrote:
Vapingmadmechanic wrote:1MP9E is what I need. For some reason whenever the module is reprogrammed, it changes the "part number" even though the number on the physical part stays the same obviously. I will check that for you today.
Ahh, understood. Thank you!
As far as I can tell, 1MP9E is the most up-to-date software available.

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Ilya
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Vapingmadmechanic wrote:
Ilya wrote:
Ahh, understood. Thank you!
As far as I can tell, 1MP9E is the most up-to-date software available.
How do I check the TCM? Or is that one only able to be seen with a CONSULT?

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Ilya wrote:
Vapingmadmechanic wrote:
As far as I can tell, 1MP9E is the most up-to-date software available.
How do I check the TCM? Or is that one only able to be seen with a CONSULT?
You will have to check that with CONSULT or possibly an advanced scan tool like a snap-on modis or similar.

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Ilya
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Vapingmadmechanic wrote:
Ilya wrote:
How do I check the TCM? Or is that one only able to be seen with a CONSULT?
You will have to check that with CONSULT or possibly an advanced scan tool like a snap-on modis or similar.
Got it. Thanks.

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Ok so I got the car back today after they had it for exactly a month. They said they had to order parts cause things kept braking when they went on a road test. They replaced everything that broke for free so that's amazing. It drives GREAT now. Huge difference. There is a bit of a belt whine noise but the tech said that will go away after a few days. I'm happy with the car now and so glad I have it back. Only thing that really sucks is I didn't notice it till I got home but they hit the bottom of my passenger door and there is white paint on it and deep scratches. If I go tell them about it tomorrow I would imagine they would just deny it or say "it was fine when you left"

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Dmix wrote:Ok so I got the car back today after they had it for exactly a month. They said they had to order parts cause things kept braking when they went on a road test. They replaced everything that broke for free so that's amazing. It drives GREAT now. Huge difference. There is a bit of a belt whine noise but the tech said that will go away after a few days. I'm happy with the car now and so glad I have it back. Only thing that really sucks is I didn't notice it till I got home but they hit the bottom of my passenger door and there is white paint on it and deep scratches. If I go tell them about it tomorrow I would imagine they would just deny it or say "it was fine when you left"
I would still go back and complain. What's the worst that will happen? They'll deny it, which leaves you in the same boat you are in now. Best that can happen? Someone comes clean. You have nothing to lose.

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Ilya wrote:
Dmix wrote:Ok so I got the car back today after they had it for exactly a month. They said they had to order parts cause things kept braking when they went on a road test. They replaced everything that broke for free so that's amazing. It drives GREAT now. Huge difference. There is a bit of a belt whine noise but the tech said that will go away after a few days. I'm happy with the car now and so glad I have it back. Only thing that really sucks is I didn't notice it till I got home but they hit the bottom of my passenger door and there is white paint on it and deep scratches. If I go tell them about it tomorrow I would imagine they would just deny it or say "it was fine when you left"
I would still go back and complain. What's the worst that will happen? They'll deny it, which leaves you in the same boat you are in now. Best that can happen? Someone comes clean. You have nothing to lose.
I will try cause after the $1300 bill I can't afford to fix it right now lol

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reggiebrown40
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Regretting getting this done already. Infiniti had the car in the shop for 2 weeks. I took it on a trip up to Canada and there were no issues. I'm back home now and my hot/cold needle keeps jumping around. A sloshing water sound and thumping noise can be heard behind the dash. The timing belt didn't fix the low end torque issue for me. I still have to mash the pedal to get it to respond. Seems like some people here had it worse than others.

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reggiebrown40 wrote:Regretting getting this done already. Infiniti had the car in the shop for 2 weeks. I took it on a trip up to Canada and there were no issues. I'm back home now and my hot/cold needle keeps jumping around. A sloshing water sound and thumping noise can be heard behind the dash. The timing belt didn't fix the low end torque issue for me. I still have to mash the pedal to get it to respond. Seems like some people here had it worse than others.
I had the water/sloshing sound which ended up being my AC I guess...but didn't have any issues with cooling.

I do have the same low-end issue especially when giving very little throttle or pulling away from lights. Have to also give a lot more throttle than necessary to get it to shift down.

A few of us had issues with our cars after getting them back.

I don't want to talk about all Infiniti techs as I think the two on our forum are probably quite good at what they do, but Infiniti needs to step up their game...this hasn't just affected members using one dealership, there have been members from all over the US who've had post-work issues. Ridiculous.

Vapingmadmechanic
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Have you considered that your low end torque issues might be related to build up on the back of your intake valves? Have you ever seen what your intake valves look like? They all pretty much have 1/4"-3/8" of carbon baked on the backs of them. This is a design flaw with the 5.6L direct injection engines. The engineers kept a conventional PCV system where oil and oily vapors are sucked into the intake but there's no fuel spraying on the back of the intake valves to clean them like we used to have in muti-port fuel injection engines. The fuel now sprays directly into the combustion chamber and the oil builds up on the back of the valves. As the engine runs it gets baked on and becomes hard. Every direct injection engine I've seen with 15k or more on it looks like that. The good news is that it only builds up to a certain point due to the mechanical opening and closing of the valve. Once you give it a little more throttle, the VVEL kicks in and the valves open further thus allowing more air into the cylinder and providing the torque and power you expect. I would ask your dealer about a direct injection intake cleaning service. My dealer doesn't not offer one, but we are actively searching for a proven, effective product to offer as a service to our clients. It's basically a foaming spray that would be shot into the intake manifold through a vacuum line, allowed to spread and dissolve the build up, then the engine would be started and run to clean it out. Kind of like an Easy-Off oven cleaner. The problem with finding a product is that most are very caustic and finding one strong enough to dissolve the carbon without damaging the aluminum heads is a challenge. I'll try to find a picture in my phone of the intake valves on one of these engines.

Vapingmadmechanic
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I can't find a pic, but if you Google Image search "intake valve carbon build up" you'll see what I'm talking about.

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reggiebrown40
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Ilya wrote:
reggiebrown40 wrote:Regretting getting this done already. Infiniti had the car in the shop for 2 weeks. I took it on a trip up to Canada and there were no issues. I'm back home now and my hot/cold needle keeps jumping around. A sloshing water sound and thumping noise can be heard behind the dash. The timing belt didn't fix the low end torque issue for me. I still have to mash the pedal to get it to respond. Seems like some people here had it worse than others.
I had the water/sloshing sound which ended up being my AC I guess...but didn't have any issues with cooling.

I do have the same low-end issue especially when giving very little throttle or pulling away from lights. Have to also give a lot more throttle than necessary to get it to shift down.

A few of us had issues with our cars after getting them back.

I don't want to talk about all Infiniti techs as I think the two on our forum are probably quite good at what they do, but Infiniti needs to step up their game...this hasn't just affected members using one dealership, there have been members from all over the US who've had post-work issues. Ridiculous.
The list of successful timing chain repairs with no issues is shorter than the list of folks with issues after the repair, which, like you said is ridiculous. This has been a top-notch clusterf*&# from day one. I had an open ticket with Infiniti consumer affairs and they STILL could not repair my car correctly. I hate to say this but I'm going to be switching out of the Infiniti brand soon. I'm tired of the cost cutting, sluggish motors, dealers who can't fix things on the first try, etc. Me and my gf made a list and we found out that I have been back to the dealership immediately after a repair to fix the same issue 6 times in the last year.

I'm sure we have some good techs on the forum but I don't mind saying this. Infiniti techs are now the worst techs in the industry. I think they are hiring guys from Jiffy Lube now.

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Ilya
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Vapingmadmechanic wrote:Have you considered that your low end torque issues might be related to build up on the back of your intake valves? Have you ever seen what your intake valves look like? They all pretty much have 1/4"-3/8" of carbon baked on the backs of them. This is a design flaw with the 5.6L direct injection engines. The engineers kept a conventional PCV system where oil and oily vapors are sucked into the intake but there's no fuel spraying on the back of the intake valves to clean them like we used to have in muti-port fuel injection engines. The fuel now sprays directly into the combustion chamber and the oil builds up on the back of the valves. As the engine runs it gets baked on and becomes hard. Every direct injection engine I've seen with 15k or more on it looks like that. The good news is that it only builds up to a certain point due to the mechanical opening and closing of the valve. Once you give it a little more throttle, the VVEL kicks in and the valves open further thus allowing more air into the cylinder and providing the torque and power you expect. I would ask your dealer about a direct injection intake cleaning service. My dealer doesn't not offer one, but we are actively searching for a proven, effective product to offer as a service to our clients. It's basically a foaming spray that would be shot into the intake manifold through a vacuum line, allowed to spread and dissolve the build up, then the engine would be started and run to clean it out. Kind of like an Easy-Off oven cleaner. The problem with finding a product is that most are very caustic and finding one strong enough to dissolve the carbon without damaging the aluminum heads is a challenge. I'll try to find a picture in my phone of the intake valves on one of these engines.
Isn't that what Seafoam does? It's applied via the vacuum line as well. Come to think of it I haven't done it in a while...perhaps I can try again to see if it helps.

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Ilya wrote:Isn't that what Seafoam does? It's applied via the vacuum line as well. Come to think of it I haven't done it in a while...perhaps I can try again to see if it helps.
What you need is something to sit and soften the build up. Basically oven cleaner. Seafoam is done with the engine running and I don't think it's strong enough for this. Hell, it might work. If done correctly it shouldn't hurt! :bigthumb:

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reggiebrown40
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I bought this car with 26K miles on it, VApingmadmechanic. It's been sluggish since day one. Infiniti refuses to acknowledge this as being an issue. I doubt that carbon build up is the issue, especially since when you throw it in manual mode it accelerates just fine.

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:woot:
reggiebrown40 wrote:I bought this car with 26K miles on it, VApingmadmechanic. It's been sluggish since day one. Infiniti refuses to acknowledge this as being an issue. I doubt that carbon build up is the issue, especially since when you throw it in manual mode it accelerates just fine.
ECM/TCM updates have been done? Can you better describe "sluggish"? Does it just seems to bog down off idle? Is it just a hesistation? Does the engine rev up or drop during this? Does changing between ECO/STANDARD/SPORT mode make a difference?

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Vapingmadmechanic wrote:
Ilya wrote:Isn't that what Seafoam does? It's applied via the vacuum line as well. Come to think of it I haven't done it in a while...perhaps I can try again to see if it helps.
What you need is something to sit and soften the build up. Basically oven cleaner. Seafoam is done with the engine running and I don't think it's strong enough for this. Hell, it might work. If done correctly it shouldn't hurt! :bigthumb:
Well, it's sucked in while the engine is on but then you turn it off for 30-45 minutes and let it 'soak' to break up the sludge...whether it actually does or does not is another story. But, I usually do it every 30kmi and I'm at 82kmi now. Last time I did it was 10/19/15 at 65kmi. Might be worth a shot to do again.
Vapingmadmechanic wrote::woot:
reggiebrown40 wrote:I bought this car with 26K miles on it, VApingmadmechanic. It's been sluggish since day one. Infiniti refuses to acknowledge this as being an issue. I doubt that carbon build up is the issue, especially since when you throw it in manual mode it accelerates just fine.
ECM/TCM updates have been done? Can you better describe "sluggish"? Does it just seems to bog down off idle? Is it just a hesistation? Does the engine rev up or drop during this? Does changing between ECO/STANDARD/SPORT mode make a difference?
I think Reggie and I are having similar issues, so he can corroborate my post, etc.

I noticed this a month or two ago (either right before or right after the recall work was done - to recap they messed up my power steering, AC 2x).

What I seem to notice is...say I'm driving at 40mph and I approach a light that is red. I will start to coast down to say 35mph. Then, before I go any slower, the light turns green and I give a very small amount of throttle to get back to 40...except nothing happens. Car might even lose an additional 1 or 2 mph before I have to give MORE throttle than necessary to get the car to accelerate...at which point the car usually downshifts a gear. It should not downshift and it should not bog down. It didn't do this when I first bought it and I've owned it for a few years now...but not sure exactly when it started. I'm in sport mode 99.9% of the time, so I can't say if it happens in other modes. It also happened for me I believe with stock software and with UpRev software.

Come to think of it, it acts a little like ECO where it seems to resist the initial throttle request as if to tell you 'you're giving too much, back off and let me control the MPG's by giving tiny amounts of power'.

It doesn't always do this, but it happens enough that I notice it and it annoys the hell out of me. It only happens on very gradual throttle inputs.

=========

Just wanted to thank you again for the time you're taking to hear our members out. It's incredibly awesome to have an Infiniti tech who seems to know his stuff on this board.

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reggiebrown40
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Vapingmadmechanic wrote::woot:
reggiebrown40 wrote:I bought this car with 26K miles on it, VApingmadmechanic. It's been sluggish since day one. Infiniti refuses to acknowledge this as being an issue. I doubt that carbon build up is the issue, especially since when you throw it in manual mode it accelerates just fine.
ECM/TCM updates have been done? Can you better describe "sluggish"? Does it just seems to bog down off idle? Is it just a hesistation? Does the engine rev up or drop during this? Does changing between ECO/STANDARD/SPORT mode make a difference?
All updates have been done. As Ilya described -- from a stand still you can hear the car going through gears and when it gets to 3 or 4th gear it just loses power. You mash the pedal and it takes off. It's not just a hesitation, you can feel the loss of power. The engine rev does drop down as it's now probably in 4th gear. I always drive in sport mode. I usually manually shift because of this issue. I had a loaner Q70S awd 5.6 2 weeks ago and it was brand new and did the same thing, just not as bad.

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Received a call this morning and I was excited thinking my car was ready. It isn't. Apparently the dealer only has one tech working on these recalls. He had a family emergency and has been out for two days. Now my car won't be ready until Tuesday.

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reggiebrown40 wrote:
Vapingmadmechanic wrote::woot:

ECM/TCM updates have been done? Can you better describe "sluggish"? Does it just seems to bog down off idle? Is it just a hesistation? Does the engine rev up or drop during this? Does changing between ECO/STANDARD/SPORT mode make a difference?
All updates have been done. As Ilya described -- from a stand still you can hear the car going through gears and when it gets to 3 or 4th gear it just loses power. You mash the pedal and it takes off. It's not just a hesitation, you can feel the loss of power. The engine rev does drop down as it's now probably in 4th gear. I always drive in sport mode. I usually manually shift because of this issue. I had a loaner Q70S awd 5.6 2 weeks ago and it was brand new and did the same thing, just not as bad.
Sounds a lot like the issues described in ITB11-008a and ITB12-021b.
If those have been done, I honestly don't know what else to tell you.

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Ilya
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Vapingmadmechanic wrote:
reggiebrown40 wrote:
All updates have been done. As Ilya described -- from a stand still you can hear the car going through gears and when it gets to 3 or 4th gear it just loses power. You mash the pedal and it takes off. It's not just a hesitation, you can feel the loss of power. The engine rev does drop down as it's now probably in 4th gear. I always drive in sport mode. I usually manually shift because of this issue. I had a loaner Q70S awd 5.6 2 weeks ago and it was brand new and did the same thing, just not as bad.
Sounds a lot like the issues described in ITB11-008a and ITB12-021b.
If those have been done, I honestly don't know what else to tell you.
What is ITB11-008a? Quick Google search didn't return much. 021b I asked to have done (no idea if they did it or not though).

EDIT: Nevermind, found it. Definitely sounds like my issues.

Bulletin Number: ITB-11-008A Bulletin Date: 04-12-2011
Component:
Power train:automatic transmission
Summary
Nissan: there could be many transmission problems. excessive engine braking after accelerating. hesitation or excessive vibration when accelerating from a stop. harsh downshift during acceleration. 2011 m37/m56. *rm




ITB12-021b
-REVISED-
2011–2012 INFINITI M37; SHIFT RESPONSIVENESS ISSUES
One or more of the following conditions:
• Harsher than expected down shifts when coasting to a stop.
• Hesitation/lag when accelerating after coasting.
• Hesitation/lag or harsher than expected down shifts when coming to a stop and accelerating again (rolling stop).
• Engine rev matching during moderate to heavy braking.


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