No Start After Engine Refresh - Help Needed

[Y33TJPN]

Trying to diagnose what could be causing a no start after removing intake/plenum and replacing essentially everything in the valley while replacing Valve Cover Gaskets.

During this I managed to snap the vacuum fitting going from the charcoal canister to Vacuum gallery B. Because of this we decided to delete the EGR system as I am in a situation where I am emissions exempt and wouldn’t mind cleaning up some of the chaos that is in our engine bays. That being said I still have all vacuum lines, EGR Solenoid, EGR valve etc.

Video below is with all EGR parts removed, went back through and reconnected everything EGR related except the charcoal canister vacuum line and the vacuum line from the EGRC BPT to EGR Valve - capped all ends to prevent vacuum leaks of course. Problem still persists

While troubleshooting released fuel pressure and removed fuel line to confirm it was wet and had fuel going to injectors. Injectors were all removed, tested and balanced/refreshed with new caps and o rings.

Also replaced all spark plugs with recommended plugs in FSM. FSM advises to not gap the spark plugs so they were put into car exactly as they came from the box.

Any insight is appreciated based on the cars reaction to being turned over.


https://flic.kr/p/2kRBz2r

[Ludeaem]

Well, going back to basics you need 4 things to start a car. Air, Fuel, Spark, Compression. I've done this job and still have a vacuum leak I need to address in which I bought a smoke machine. I would suggest you gap those plugs. I never trust the pre gap BS. Takes a handful of seconds to double check and make sure you have the right gaping tool so you don't break the electrode/s.

What codes are coming up? Have you scanned it?

[Y33TJPN]

Well, going back to basics you need 4 things to start a car. Air, Fuel, Spark, Compression. I've done this job and still have a vacuum leak I need to address in which I bought a smoke machine. I would suggest you gap those plugs. I never trust the pre gap BS. Takes a handful of seconds to double check and make sure you have the right gaping tool so you don't break the electrode/s.

What codes are coming up? Have you scanned it?

Where would be the best source to find out what the gap needs to be on the spark plugs? Per the manual it says to not gap them and because of this I could not find specs for this.

I’m checking the OHMs on the coils to make sure they didn’t finally give out during the month+ I took to do this job. I have no records on when these have been replaced so I am considering ordering Hitachi Coils for both banks if I find out my current ones are causing failure.

Codes when scanned were P1400 initially. After I reconnected the EGR sensors/every vacuum line minus what was mentioned above and cleared codes/reconnected battery code did not reappear. No other codes are present.

[Y33TJPN]

Also, while I’m thinking about it. Can anyone direct me to where I would be able to find which coil connectors go to which coil? I believe I reattached them to the correct position but my loom was disintegrating and it was hard to confirm 100%. Any direction on which combination of colored wire go to which coil would be fantastic. Having a hard time finding the correct page in the manual. Thank you.

[3Q Jay]

the gap is 1.1 mm, or about 0.044" but I wouldn't stick anything in there (easy to damage the platinum --you did buy the PFR5G11s, right)?
eyeball experience. I'm not saying that my eyes or yours are calibrated. but easy to tell the difference between 0.030 and 0.050 and if it's in between then that's not going to be your problem.
I recommend dielectric grease on the PORCELAIN only. not the electrical contacts. You want to keep spark from jumping out of the boot (they dry out) and going direct to ground instead of thru the electrode to ground.

[3Q Jay]

try EC-270 and EC-271 for the wire color coding on the trigger for each coil.

[VStar650CL]

The trigger wire (pin 3) will be the only wire that's a different color on each coil in the bank. All coils are WHT/RED for power, BLK for ground. Here are the trigger colors:
#1 WHT/RED
#2 RED/BLU
#3 GRY
#4 WHT/RED
#5 GRY/RED
#6 VIO/WHT
#7 BLU/RED
#8 GRN/RED

[Y33TJPN]

The trigger wire (pin 3) will be the only wire that's a different color on each coil in the bank. All coils are WHT/RED for power, BLK for ground. Here are the trigger colors:
#1 WHT/RED
#2 RED/BLU
#3 GRY
#4 WHT/RED
#5 GRY/RED
#6 VIO/WHT
#7 BLU/RED
#8 GRN/RED

Thanks! This helps a ton. Will update this thread tonight on my results.

[VStar650CL]

Correction, #1 YEL/RED. Sorry!

[Ludeaem]

This is the tool you'll want to use with platinum tips. I ended up going the BKR5EGP route and it runs great.

https://www.autozone.com/clamps-and-mea ... lsrc=aw.ds

[Y33TJPN]

The trigger wire (pin 3) will be the only wire that's a different color on each coil in the bank. All coils are WHT/RED for power, BLK for ground. Here are the trigger colors:
#1 WHT/RED
#2 RED/BLU
#3 GRY
#4 WHT/RED
#5 GRY/RED
#6 VIO/WHT
#7 BLU/RED
#8 GRN/RED

This corrected the no start! I had managed to switch adjacent ignition coils on both banks IE 2<->4 6<->8 1<->3 5<->7. Followed the above (with the #1 Yellow/Red note following) and started up like a charm. That being said is there anything I should further investigate given I cranked it multiple times (10 minutes or so of a few cranks every minute) with the wrong firing order in place?

[VStar650CL]

Nah, the worst it would cause is some transient flooding. Warm it up well and drive it a bit to let the PCV suck out any fuel that may have got past the rings and into the crank.

[Y33TJPN]

Continuing to work out the kinks, I know I’m close to getting this thing back to daily driver duty.

After I connected the connectors to the right coils I started it up and had no SES/CEL and no unwarranted lights besides the air bag indicator (that’s been there since purchased). At this point I didn’t get to test drive it or let it idle for very long as I was technically on the clock

I came home and was excited to start it up again, double checked to make sure everything was connected and tight and turned it over and the AC fans immediately came on, which hasn’t happened before. Also ran codes and had 3 codes - P0115, P0325 and P0330 - looked in the engine bay again and realized the knock sensor connector was unplugged. Phew.

Still trying to troubleshoot the P0115 for the ECTS. Little backstory is when purchased my car had a single prong ECTS (part #25080-89907). The prong had broken off so I ordered a replacement (part #25080-89903 as it was something I could pick up same day and not delay starting further). This replacement part is technically for a 300zx but I took a chance as I figured they look and serve the same purpose.

In the manual it advises troubleshooting methods but they all revolve around the coolant temp sensor part 22630-ED000 And this is a multi prong connection. Any idea why mine came with a single prong and how to trace what could be causing this code? Infiniti parts deal states my sensor part # is for “ FED. S + CAL. S, S” but doesn’t list any production dates. If someone could decode this that would be helpful - I’m assuming FED is federal and CAL is California but not sure how that correlates to my MY.

If I’m reading the manual right my car is in failsafe mode and since it is receiving either very high or very low voltage from the sensor or it’s connector it is essentially guessing at what the temp is and adjusting the gauge based on the amount of time since the ignition has been turned to start. I pulled the car out of the garage and the gauge got all the way to the line before the “H” in my travel of less than a half half mile and very little idling prior to departure. It seems that’s not accurate unless something is very wrong with my cooling system.

As always - any assist is appreciated!!!!

[Y33TJPN]

Continuing to work out the kinks, I know I’m close to getting this thing back to daily driver duty.

After I connected the connectors to the right coils I started it up and had no SES/CEL and no unwarranted lights besides the air bag indicator (that’s been there since purchased). At this point I didn’t get to test drive it or let it idle for very long as I was technically on the clock

I came home and was excited to start it up again, double checked to make sure everything was connected and tight and turned it over and the AC fans immediately came on, which hasn’t happened before. Also ran codes and had 3 codes - P0115, P0325 and P0330 - looked in the engine bay again and realized the knock sensor connector was unplugged. Phew.

Still trying to troubleshoot the P0115 for the ECTS. Little backstory is when purchased my car had a single prong ECTS (part #25080-89907). The prong had broken off so I ordered a replacement (part #25080-89903 as it was something I could pick up same day and not delay starting further). This replacement part is technically for a 300zx but I took a chance as I figured they look and serve the same purpose.

In the manual it advises troubleshooting methods but they all revolve around the coolant temp sensor part 22630-ED000 And this is a multi prong connection. Any idea why mine came with a single prong and how to trace what could be causing this code? Infiniti parts deal states my sensor part # is for “ FED. S + CAL. S, S” but doesn’t list any production dates. If someone could decode this that would be helpful - I’m assuming FED is federal and CAL is California but not sure how that correlates to my MY.

If I’m reading the manual right my car is in failsafe mode and since it is receiving either very high or very low voltage from the sensor or it’s connector it is essentially guessing at what the temp is and adjusting the gauge based on the amount of time since the ignition has been turned to start. I pulled the car out of the garage and the gauge got all the way to the line before the “H” in my travel of less than a half half mile and very little idling prior to departure. It seems that’s not accurate unless something is very wrong with my cooling system.

As always - any assist is appreciated!!!!

Disregard everything above - I realized I was looking at two completely different parts of the cooling diagram and completely confused myself by thinking the coolant temp sensor to ECU and coolant temp sensor to gauge are the same thing.

Where we sit now is no SES/CEL and no Slip or TCS light (these were on initially on my test drive) following rechecking connections and realizing my ECTS connector on the coolant Y pipe was not fully secured which explains the initial P0115 code. Would this cause TCS and slip lights to come on though? Those went off immediately following me securing the ECTS connector.

Last thing to figure out is why my gauge is showing it’s getting to the last line before the H within a half mile but then when I proceed to park it and leave it in idle it is staying where it’s at with no indication of getting hotter. I would think as I was idling and having no air flow this would cause the coolant to get hotter.

[Y33TJPN]

UPDATE:

Came back out to the car 6 hours after my post last night and turned key to on position. temp gauge instantly went to near midpoint which seems off for what should be a cold engine after sitting that long - felt the plenum and the valve covers and they were slightly warm but just slightly.

I’m wondering if the coolant gauge sensor I purchased transmits it’s signal at a different rate than ours and is relaying that the temp is hotter than it actually is. I can’t see any reason why my coolant would be blocked or having issues after this valley/valve cover rebuild when it was perfect temps the few hundred miles I drove it before starting this refresh.

[VStar650CL]

Definitely sounds like a wrong/bad temp sensor or a bad gauge.

[Y33TJPN]

Definitely sounds like a wrong/bad temp sensor or a bad gauge.

This is what I’m thinking. I’ve already ordered the correct part # based on IPD diagrams. Is there a way to test the resistance of my current sensor and compare it to new? Seeing a difference would definitely give me peace of mind. Would it just be one multimeter lead to ground and one to sensor to measure OHMS?

Last thing I want to do is assume it’s a faulty sensor and drive the Q in an overheating condition.

Further inspection after short drives is I still have smoke coming off of the exhaust because of residual oil. I don’t see any indication it is fresh oil coming from the newly replaced gaskets so I think I’m going to get under the car tomorrow AM and try to clean as much of the oil from the leaking valve covers as possible and keep an eye on if any fresh oil appears.

[VStar650CL]

Get a laser thermometer and shoot the area near the OE temperature sensor. If the gauge says overheat but the laser says normal temperature, you can be sure the gauge or sender is faulty. It's probably the gauge. The sensors are simple RTD's, resistors that change value with temperature. When they die, they almost always flatline. The gauge pegs the needle, usually at the Cold end, and doesn't move. Problems with inaccurate display are far more likely to be a faulty gauge.

[Y33TJPN]

Get a laser thermometer and shoot the area near the OE temperature sensor. If the gauge says overheat but the laser says normal temperature, you can be sure the gauge or sender is faulty. It's probably the gauge. The sensors are simple RTD's, resistors that change value with temperature. When they die, they almost always flatline. The gauge pegs the needle, usually at the Cold end, and doesn't move. Problems with inaccurate display are far more likely to be a faulty gauge.

Went ahead and followed the above and am feeling pretty safe I do not have cooling issues but instead have a fault sensor or gauge as suggested. Measured temp with infrared at cold, idle and after 10 min idle + 1 mile round trip and despite my gauge saying I am about to explode my temp after turning car off and letting it sit for a couple minutes was 95.5 from a 80.4 degree completely cold engine which sounds much more spot on to how the gauge reflected prior to this tear down.

I’m going to wait until the correct part # sensor comes in and put that in and see if that corrects the issue. If it doesn’t I will begin looking at the gauge for a fault.

In the meantime it’s under the chassis to get rid of years worth of oil buildup assuming the valve covers have been leaking for some time.

EDIT: to add to that referencing the manual my ECM driven fans do not turn on at any point during these tests indicating the ECM coolant sensor is not registering a high coolant temp. I can confirm my ECM driven fans are working correctly as when I unknowingly had my ECM coolant temp sensor unplugged and it was in failsafe mode the AC fans were on any time the engine was turned over and idling. Boy that FSM and this forum is a lifesaver - thanks to everyone who assisted!

[cbird805]

A good indication whether your engine cooling system is working properly is to turn your heater on full, and see if you are getting hotter than ambient temp air blowing. As counter-intuitive as it may seem, it indicates that coolant is recirculating and that your thermostat is working properly. I'm not discounting the coolant temp sensor being bad, but it also sounds like either coolant isn't recirculating properly. A bad water pump or thermostat can also cause your temp to be abnormally high. Does the temp rise at idle? They should be right in the middle of the gauge normally.

[Ryantzer]

A good indication whether your engine cooling system is working properly is to turn your heater on full, and see if you are getting hotter than ambient temp air blowing. As counter-intuitive as it may seem, it indicates that coolant is recirculating and that your thermostat is working properly.

I'm not sure that's accurate - if the thermostat is stuck closed coolant would still circulate through the engine and heater core, so having hot air inside doesn't indicate a properly working thermostat.

[VStar650CL]

I'm not sure that's accurate - if the thermostat is stuck closed coolant would still circulate through the engine and heater core, so having hot air inside doesn't indicate a properly working thermostat.

You're correct, that's inaccurate. It does tell you the water pump is working and that the coolant level is high enough for flow, but doesn't tell you anything about flow through the radiator.

[Y33TJPN]

As a conclusion to this thread I thought I would confirm for future DIYers that my gauge was reading hot due to resistance the sensor (incorrect part #) was sending to the gauge. I replaced it with the correct part # and all is good. Ran live monitor on my OBDII scanner to confirm, engine is sitting happy between 165-178 degrees.

[Ryantzer]

165-178 sounds way too cold - do you have the proper temp thermostat installed?

[VStar650CL]

165-178 sounds way too cold - do you have the proper temp thermostat installed?

Second that. Rated temp on a 'stat is where it should crack open, full flow temp will be 3~5 degrees higher. So, for instance, a 180 'stat should generally keep the engine at 180~185. These guys would know better than I would, but I think your 'stat should be higher than that. Keep in mind that running cold will give you a tiny bit more power but will accelerate engine wear, depending how much colder you're running. Ring and piston wear at 90F is 8 times greater than at 180F on a typical engine.

[Ryantzer]

The other issue is that the ECU may not go into closed loop operation because it thinks that the engine hasn't reached operating temperature, which means it will be running rich and getting poor fuel mileage.

There is really no power gained with a lower temp thermostat - the lower coolant temp has no effect on the intake air temperature, which is the only area where lower temps would be a benefit. Reducing the coolant temps by 15 degrees is going to have zero effect on the combustion chamber temperatures, which are in the thousands of degrees.

[VStar650CL]

There is really no power gained with a lower temp thermostat - the lower coolant temp has no effect on the intake air temperature, which is the only area where lower temps would be a benefit. Reducing the coolant temps by 15 degrees is going to have zero effect on the combustion chamber temperatures, which are in the thousands of degrees.

Most of the dyno tests I've seen show very small gains, but no more than a few hp even on big powerplants. You're absolutely right about the open loop, and constant rich running will also contribute to engine wear by gradually polluting the oil.

[Y33TJPN]

165-178 sounds way too cold - do you have the proper temp thermostat installed?

The thermostat wasn’t changed by myself and no record of it being changed by a shop. The owner before me wasn’t sure how to change the battery so I’m confident he didn’t touch anything related to the cooling system. Of course could have been changed before him but the car looked overall untouched mechanically.

This could be running cooler due to a lesser ratio of water to coolant. Currently I’m running mostly distilled water to flush out the system of whatever was put in before my ownership.

[3Q Jay]

The factory installed thermostat is 21200-6P000 (now-6P001). It has an 82C setpoint (~180F). This was higher than that used on the G50 platform.
When I first purchased my '95 back in 2007, I noticed that it took a long time to warm up (confirmed by ECU temp scan). When doing the re-hab mx, I found that the original factory installed t-stat had a split in the o-ring which allowed coolant flow even before the spring opened.
To be precise, you are saying you are running a lesser ratio of coolant to water? Running more "coolant" than water will actually raise the engine operating temp as the fluid must attain a higher temp prior to boiling off to the overflow tank.

[VStar650CL]

To be precise, you are saying you are running a lesser ratio of coolant to water? Running more "coolant" than water will actually raise the engine operating temp as the fluid must attain a higher temp prior to boiling off to the overflow tank.

I think the OP means heat transfer, Jay. Glycol has crappy heat transfer characteristics, that's why Nissan will void a CVT warranty if there's higher than 50-50 in the cooling system. Straight glycol will reduce cooling capacity by as much as 25% and actually freezes higher than 50-50 does. Straight water provides the best transfer but of course boils, so 50-50 is simply the best compromise. However, none of that should affect the temp at which the 'stat opens, so I doubt that's why the OP is running cool. If the 'stat is the correct temperature then you're quite right, some sort of bypassing is the likely culprit.