NJ BILL TO BAN ANY MAGS ABOVE 5rounds

Hiking, fishing, hunting, boating, biking, travel and recreation-related discussion forum
User avatar
IBCoupe
Posts: 7534
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 11:51 am
Car: '08 Nissan Altima Coupe 3.5SE
'19 Infiniti QX50 FWD
'17 BMW 330e iPerformance
Location: Orange County, CA

Post

themadscientist wrote:
bigbadberry3 wrote:What argument do you propose that supports the existence of high capacity magazines?
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
Clearly, the framers contemplated completely unregulated firearms.

In fairness, BBB took the wrong approach to responding to that, but it was still stupid, and immensely so. MY ARGUMENT IN FAVOR OF THIS PARTICULAR POLICY, WHICH NO LEGAL THINKER OF ANY REPUTE HAS ADOPTED, IS THIS VAGUE CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISION, SO SUCK IT, LIBS.


User avatar
AZhitman
Administrator
Posts: 71061
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 S13, 92 SE-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14.
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Contact:

Post

bigbadberry3 wrote:Good thing that I live my life by a paper that was written over 200 years ago. :crazy:
Statements like this make me question your suitability for your chosen profession.

Would you prefer something that was whipped up in the late 1980's?

If you can't comprehend the extraordinary nature of the Constitution, you haven't studied it enough.

User avatar
AZhitman
Administrator
Posts: 71061
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 S13, 92 SE-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14.
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Contact:

Post

IBCoupe wrote:MY ARGUMENT IN FAVOR OF THIS PARTICULAR POLICY, WHICH NO LEGAL THINKER OF ANY REPUTE HAS ADOPTED, IS THIS VAGUE CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISION, SO SUCK IT, LIBS.
Sarcasm is completely unbecoming when it's not well-thought out.

How many other Amendments are similarly vague? I'll let you refer to your notes (you DID keep them, didn't you?)

User avatar
ImStricken06
Posts: 5052
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:45 am
Car: 2008 Rogue(sold)
2013 Santa Fe
2016 Sorento
Location: Within Range
Contact:

Post

s0m3th1ngAZ wrote:Are you suggesting we remove freedoms in order to fix our issues?
its a tough question. anyone with morals, class, self-respect, etc - will tell you that there is too much being 'accepted' now a days under the guise of "freedom of expression". i mean dont you look at something and say to yourself: "wow thats just wrong"? or do you walk around and view everything as 'OK'? take the likes of parez hilton, etc. there should be no good reason why we dont view a grown overweight man, walking around in pink panties in the streets as 'acceptable'. yes- its apart of the freedoms that we enjoy everyday, but there needs to be moral and ethical boundaries/limits to everything, dont you say? to simply say: "free country do and act as you please", is simply asking for an all out free-for-all. [and before some liberal takes what i said and twists it around as me being homophobic or anti-gay, im not. being gay doesn't mean having to be a clown. just like being black doesnt mean being a thug. you can be a social clown like parez hilton and be straight. and one can be white and still be a thug. just like me being russian- doesnt automatically mean me having to be a vodka drinking mafioso.]

am i looking to amend the constitution to limit certain freedoms? NO. am i hoping that society takes a few decades of a step back: YES.
i respect the days of when women had self-respect and didnt walk around dressed in outfits one would find in a strip-club. the days men acted like men, and had chivalry. the days men held the door open for someone older(especially a female). The days when people 18-35 didnt act like they are owed a life by someone rich. the days when children had respect for adults, fear & respect for cops/teachers/etc . days when parents were positive roll models for their children. and more.
because anyway you look at it, "now a days" sucks. to not go into specifics, but i never thought America would reach a state of where the biggest risk to human safety comes from within. we have not only the typical left vs right issues that we have always had(just now even more cut-throat), but now we have Americans turning into Muslim supporters and attacking us, the explosion of illegal aliens that are poisoning our youth with drugs smuggled across the boarder. American citizen thugs that cant read or write, let alone speak ENGLISH and are running around hustlin' drugs and pimpin 'n hoin' our own women. the same thugs then pro-create and make similar thugs. im telling you - America is in serious trouble with all the immoral behavior (that is often perpetuated by some 'protected' group- so god forbid someone speaks out and ridicules said behavior.)

call me old fashioned, lame, i dont care. but being only 28, i foresee a serious social war in this country. and its gonna be conservative vs liberal. the left is just running away with immoral behavior, and anyone who doesnt accept it is a label: hater. im not saying a 'social war' by means of men lined up with rifles pointed at one another on some battle field, but a social war of people moving into 'like-minded' states or area's and hating the opposing group; basically social class warfare that involves pushing opposing people out of real estate markets, jobs, social circles, etc. right back to where we started. [and i predict that ultra liberal area's not doing so well, just like california lol]

User avatar
bigbadberry3
Posts: 2095
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 6:19 pm
Location: USA

Post

AZhitman wrote:
bigbadberry3 wrote:Good thing that I live my life by a paper that was written over 200 years ago. :crazy:
Statements like this make me question your suitability for your chosen profession.

Would you prefer something that was whipped up in the late 1980's?

If you can't comprehend the extraordinary nature of the Constitution, you haven't studied it enough.
What makes the constitution set in stone? An unchangeable document? Not like there exists an amendment process or anything .....

EDIT:

Side note on Jefferson, dare I say, rewriting the constitution periodically:

http://student-of-life.newsvine.com/_ne ... about-that

User avatar
IBCoupe
Posts: 7534
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 11:51 am
Car: '08 Nissan Altima Coupe 3.5SE
'19 Infiniti QX50 FWD
'17 BMW 330e iPerformance
Location: Orange County, CA

Post

AZhitman wrote:
IBCoupe wrote:MY ARGUMENT IN FAVOR OF THIS PARTICULAR POLICY, WHICH NO LEGAL THINKER OF ANY REPUTE HAS ADOPTED, IS THIS VAGUE CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISION, SO SUCK IT, LIBS.
Sarcasm is completely unbecoming when it's not well-thought out.

How many other Amendments are similarly vague? I'll let you refer to your notes (you DID keep them, didn't you?)
There isn't one that's not, but the Third is close to being unambiguous. But a blanket appeal to the Second Amendment as being the reason not to regulate the capacity of firearm magazines and clips doesn't just take a walk in the park of that ambiguity, it sets up shop and builds a summer home, there.

It's conceivable that the Second Amendment can be read to prohibit Federal, State, and local governments from regulating firearms in any way, but that's not a popular interpretation, at least among those who purport to read the constitution for its own sake, and not as a lever in favor of policies they like.

User avatar
ImStricken06
Posts: 5052
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:45 am
Car: 2008 Rogue(sold)
2013 Santa Fe
2016 Sorento
Location: Within Range
Contact:

Post

regulating magazines, will not stop mass shootings, or murderous shootings at all. so why even waste time on it? because "it feels good"? im all for slowing down crime- but the left is looking in the wrong direction. (obviously due to their inexperience with firearms.)

blaming guns/magazines/bullets for the violence we are seeing, is like blaming cars/alcohol/bars for the DWI problem we face(which kills more people yearly than guns by the way).

would limiting the alcohol content in beer or hard liquor lower the amount of DWI related deaths we see? by forcing someone to take two shots, instead of one- would that extra few seconds stop a dirtbag from driving drunk? no. dirtbags will be dirtbags no matter what limitations we impose. the only people that will suffer are the guys that have to now buy twice as much alcohol to 'relax' at home on a friday night. WHY DO LIBERALS NOT SEE THIS?

User avatar
IBCoupe
Posts: 7534
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 11:51 am
Car: '08 Nissan Altima Coupe 3.5SE
'19 Infiniti QX50 FWD
'17 BMW 330e iPerformance
Location: Orange County, CA

Post

ImStricken wrote:
s0m3th1ngAZ wrote:Are you suggesting we remove freedoms in order to fix our issues?
its a tough question. anyone with morals, class, self-respect, etc - will tell you that there is too much being 'accepted' now a days under the guise of "freedom of expression". i mean dont you look at something and say to yourself: "wow thats just wrong"? or do you walk around and view everything as 'OK'? take the likes of parez hilton, etc. there should be no good reason why we dont view a grown overweight man, walking around in pink panties in the streets as 'acceptable. yes- its apart of the freedoms that we enjoy everyday, but there needs to be moral and ethical boundaries/limits to everything, dont you say? to simply say: "free country do and act as you please", is simply asking for an all out free-for-all.]
Avert your freakin' eyes and move along. Interesting, that last, bit though. Moral and ethical boundaries/limits to ammunition capacity? NEVAR.

User avatar
ImStricken06
Posts: 5052
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:45 am
Car: 2008 Rogue(sold)
2013 Santa Fe
2016 Sorento
Location: Within Range
Contact:

Post

bigbadberry3 wrote:What makes the constitution set in stone? An unchangeable document?
because its been working great for the past how many hundred years? because it was the reason America was the #1 nation for so long? as soon as it started getting pissed on by progressive's is when we started to see the issues we now face.

its also the reason tools like piers morgan fled his anti-gun, socialist homeland, for America.

User avatar
ImStricken06
Posts: 5052
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:45 am
Car: 2008 Rogue(sold)
2013 Santa Fe
2016 Sorento
Location: Within Range
Contact:

Post

ImStricken wrote: its a tough question. anyone with morals, class, self-respect, etc - will tell you that there is too much being 'accepted' now a days under the guise of "freedom of expression". i mean dont you look at something and say to yourself: "wow thats just wrong"? or do you walk around and view everything as 'OK'? take the likes of parez hilton, etc. there should be no good reason why we dont view a grown overweight man, walking around in pink panties in the streets as 'acceptable. yes- its apart of the freedoms that we enjoy everyday, but there needs to be moral and ethical boundaries/limits to everything, dont you say? to simply say: "free country do and act as you please", is simply asking for an all out free-for-all.]
IBCoupe wrote:Avert your freakin' eyes and move along. Interesting, that last, bit though. Moral and ethical boundaries/limits to ammunition capacity? NEVAR.
thats what i do, but thats not the point. the point is the problem: we have clowns that are walking around and its accepted and or ignored. those clowns then are joined with more clowns, since being a clown isnt looked down upon- rather simply ignored. before you know it, we have a new protected group of clowns that the left are seeking to have accepted in society and laws made that block anyone from saying anything against "clowns" aka hate-speach. now clowns are seen as common people. and in the next coming year, the clowns push the envelope even further..... before you know it, we will have Sodom and Gomorrah

User avatar
IBCoupe
Posts: 7534
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 11:51 am
Car: '08 Nissan Altima Coupe 3.5SE
'19 Infiniti QX50 FWD
'17 BMW 330e iPerformance
Location: Orange County, CA

Post

You're a riot. Which hate speech laws do you think these will look like? Those afforded to Muslims? Jews? Homosexuals? Which hate speech laws are you looking at for inspiration?

I'm just looking for some indication that we're talking about something more than your feverish fantasy. But really, so what if we have Sodom and Gomorrah? Do you remember the sin that brought about their destruction? I don't think you do, because if you did, you probably wouldn't be referencing them, as it undermines your point.

User avatar
AZhitman
Administrator
Posts: 71061
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 S13, 92 SE-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14.
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Contact:

Post

I think the problem here is that Americans, as a rule, suck at debate. The two sides have gotten SO far away from the MEAT of the matter at hand, that it devolves (within seconds) into a broad-brush condemnation of caricatures of the other side, and that's flat-out retarded.

Back to the DETAILS. Look at the implications of implementing such a ban. What are the facts that support it? Where is the research? How can it be effectively employed, without loopholes or failures? How much will it cost? Can it be reasonably expected to achieve its goals?

This is no different from the Left lobbing the "war on women" grenade. Did anyone REALLY think that in 2013, Roe v Wade would be overturned and women would be back in the alleys, blowing some crackhead for an appointment with a coat hanger? GET FREAKIN' REAL. Morons, the lot of them.

I wasn't around, but according to my History teacher, Prohibition wasn't much of a success. It led to more expenses and casualties than could have ever been foreseen.

Then again, what do I know? I just like facts. And right now, the knee-jerk anti-gun people are looking like the uneducated mouthbreathers in this debate.

EDIT: A somewhat pithy article on this very topic: http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/opinion/h ... index.html

User avatar
biggie
Moderator
Posts: 10330
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 2:31 am
Car: '16 Q70L/'14 Q60S Vert/'19 Armada/'09 FX35
Location: Clemmons, NC

Post

On a little broader scale has anyone published the numbers of gun companies laying off workers or closing their doors after a ban?

Granted killing the economy isn't of any concern in the current govt.

User avatar
s0m3th1ngAZ
Posts: 3858
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:11 am
Car: 96' Miata
2014 Focus ST

Post

ImStricken wrote:
s0m3th1ngAZ wrote:Are you suggesting we remove freedoms in order to fix our issues?
its a tough question. anyone with morals, class, self-respect, etc - will tell you that there is too much being 'accepted' now a days under the guise of "freedom of expression". i mean dont you look at something and say to yourself: "wow thats just wrong"? or do you walk around and view everything as 'OK'? take the likes of parez hilton, etc. there should be no good reason why we dont view a grown overweight man, walking around in pink panties in the streets as 'acceptable'. yes- its apart of the freedoms that we enjoy everyday, but there needs to be moral and ethical boundaries/limits to everything, dont you say? to simply say: "free country do and act as you please", is simply asking for an all out free-for-all. [and before some liberal takes what i said and twists it around as me being homophobic or anti-gay, im not. being gay doesn't mean having to be a clown. just like being black doesnt mean being a thug. you can be a social clown like parez hilton and be straight. and one can be white and still be a thug. just like me being russian- doesnt automatically mean me having to be a vodka drinking mafioso.]

am i looking to amend the constitution to limit certain freedoms? NO. am i hoping that society takes a few decades of a step back: YES.
i respect the days of when women had self-respect and didnt walk around dressed in outfits one would find in a strip-club. the days men acted like men, and had chivalry. the days men held the door open for someone older(especially a female). The days when people 18-35 didnt act like they are owed a life by someone rich. the days when children had respect for adults, fear & respect for cops/teachers/etc . days when parents were positive roll models for their children. and more.
because anyway you look at it, "now a days" sucks. to not go into specifics, but i never thought America would reach a state of where the biggest risk to human safety comes from within. we have not only the typical left vs right issues that we have always had(just now even more cut-throat), but now we have Americans turning into Muslim supporters and attacking us, the explosion of illegal aliens that are poisoning our youth with drugs smuggled across the boarder. American citizen thugs that cant read or write, let alone speak ENGLISH and are running around hustlin' drugs and pimpin 'n hoin' our own women. the same thugs then pro-create and make similar thugs. im telling you - America is in serious trouble with all the immoral behavior (that is often perpetuated by some 'protected' group- so god forbid someone speaks out and ridicules said behavior.)

call me old fashioned, lame, i dont care. but being only 28, i foresee a serious social war in this country. and its gonna be conservative vs liberal. the left is just running away with immoral behavior, and anyone who doesnt accept it is a label: hater. im not saying a 'social war' by means of men lined up with rifles pointed at one another on some battle field, but a social war of people moving into 'like-minded' states or area's and hating the opposing group; basically social class warfare that involves pushing opposing people out of real estate markets, jobs, social circles, etc. right back to where we started. [and i predict that ultra liberal area's not doing so well, just like california lol]
Don't sugar-coat it dude, you want to limit certain people's freedoms so YOU can feel better about yourself. Social warfare? America has been in a constant state of social upheaval for its entire history. Liberals and their ilk are nothing new. Your intolerance at such a young age is troubling and indicative of the REAL problem with this country - xenophobia. Now, Americans have always been distrustful of other cultures but that mentality will destroy us wholesale...but that's a tangent for a different thread.
For the record, I oppose gun control legislation and lean about as much as a metronome, so there yah go.


Return to “The Great Outdoors”