wow, im suprised i havent stumbled across this earlier.
i would offer help, but im a hardware guy. i cant write code, but i can etch the boards and assemble them.
what is the software written in, VB?
i really like the setup your going with. im pretty much abandoning the idea of an RB in the J30, or a VH. the motor is cheaper, parts are available, and it came in the car in other countries.
my planned new setup would require a blow through MAF.twin GT25's, a dual inlet single outlet FMIC, and a blow through MAF.
since i cant write code, your setup is promising.
do you think there is enough range in global correction to emulate a Q45 MAF?
New MAF/MAP Setup UPDATE!! :)
I'm actually good on assembling/creating the PCBs. Yup the computer side software is written in VB.NET, which in itself has been a little project to get to know. I was a VB6 guy before this, .NET is a new world... In debug mode it will show you the asm if need be!
I am recent to the nissan world, what motor exactly are you running? Honestly I can make it so there is enough resolution in global correction for you to emulate the Q45... HOWEVER, my personal opinion is that it should be done the same way I ran my setup, which is to run the 2 MAFs (Q45, and for your setup I would run a 3.5" GM sensor for 600+ horsepower resolution) in parallel (heh, ironic that they are technically running in "series") and get the GM maf to directly emulate the Q45. Also the RPM signal on a 6 isnt going to be the same as the distributer-based 4cyl KA.Basically, the system could be adapted for any nissan really, its just a matter of me getting some time with the car, what output MAF to emulate, and time... But as it stands it wouldn't work for your setup unless you did A LOT of playing around and tuning...
Note: SR20det, CA18 could probably use this with just a simple global correction. If i could get my hands on a tester car with these engines I could make a direct system for them too... But for now lets concentrate on the KAs =]
Ivory... if your still **** out of luck I can try to work with you (once I have completed this for the KA), especially cause I'll bet your car has little to NO support for turboing.. its just that I dont have a 94 j30 to use as a test car, and I'm in WI - your in NY.. You are welcome to shoot me an email if you would like.
Murray
I am recent to the nissan world, what motor exactly are you running? Honestly I can make it so there is enough resolution in global correction for you to emulate the Q45... HOWEVER, my personal opinion is that it should be done the same way I ran my setup, which is to run the 2 MAFs (Q45, and for your setup I would run a 3.5" GM sensor for 600+ horsepower resolution) in parallel (heh, ironic that they are technically running in "series") and get the GM maf to directly emulate the Q45. Also the RPM signal on a 6 isnt going to be the same as the distributer-based 4cyl KA.Basically, the system could be adapted for any nissan really, its just a matter of me getting some time with the car, what output MAF to emulate, and time... But as it stands it wouldn't work for your setup unless you did A LOT of playing around and tuning...
Note: SR20det, CA18 could probably use this with just a simple global correction. If i could get my hands on a tester car with these engines I could make a direct system for them too... But for now lets concentrate on the KAs =]
Ivory... if your still **** out of luck I can try to work with you (once I have completed this for the KA), especially cause I'll bet your car has little to NO support for turboing.. its just that I dont have a 94 j30 to use as a test car, and I'm in WI - your in NY.. You are welcome to shoot me an email if you would like.
Murray
yeah, the new .NET CRL looks like fun to get the hang of. im still working my way through ANSI C++. figured i would at least put an effort into learning to code. ive neglected coding in favor of hardware/OS admin.
the j30 has a RWD 3.0l v6 [vg30de] the vh45de is a 4.5l dohc v8.
the VH uses a single large maf. the maf is larger than the z32 maf which is said to support 550 hp.
what size is the gm maf your using? im assuming its an F body maf.
what i want to do is have two small gt25 turbos on log manifolds.to maintain a single MAF, i want a pod filter to each turbo, and ill make a FMIC with two bottom inlets and a single top outlet. that single pipe through the maf, then to the throttle body.
i want to use the stock intake because the motor will be stock internals on 6-10 psi. i dont know if i want to go higher than that because of the stock 10.2 compression. a fuel controller like this would be perfect to pull some fuel out for larger injectors, and the GM maf which im pretty sure is bigger than the q45 maf. i have to check it out.
the j30 has a RWD 3.0l v6 [vg30de] the vh45de is a 4.5l dohc v8.
the VH uses a single large maf. the maf is larger than the z32 maf which is said to support 550 hp.
what size is the gm maf your using? im assuming its an F body maf.
what i want to do is have two small gt25 turbos on log manifolds.to maintain a single MAF, i want a pod filter to each turbo, and ill make a FMIC with two bottom inlets and a single top outlet. that single pipe through the maf, then to the throttle body.
i want to use the stock intake because the motor will be stock internals on 6-10 psi. i dont know if i want to go higher than that because of the stock 10.2 compression. a fuel controller like this would be perfect to pull some fuel out for larger injectors, and the GM maf which im pretty sure is bigger than the q45 maf. i have to check it out.
Chezedik wrote:My intent is for Supercharging, but currently, I will be running NA until I get that together. Is there any need for any input on a naturally aspirated model. Or is there an overall reason you are looking specifically for turbo'd 240's?
Well if you are using this setup as MAF, then it would require just to hook it up and start running, assuming that you are staying NA and arent switching injectors or any of that.. If you wanted to you could play with the global setting a few percent either way to see if you could pick up some more power but its not needed.
However you voiced the idea of running a MAP sensor... Speed density by nature needs to be tuned more than a MAF setup, because everyone has a different VE from the next person. Even putting on a cat-back exhuast may result in some tuning needed. So basically even if running NA or turbod/supercharged the MAP setup will require more tuning.
As far as supercharging versus turbocharging... It wont matter, this will work for either system.. again because it is a MAF setup. So yea it will work for KA24E, KA24DE, KA24ET, KA24DET, KA24ES
, and KA24DES I just originally said turbo'd because most guys go with turbos over superchargers.ok, the q45 maf is physically larger than the z32 maf, but it has a smaller range, so it maxes out earlier. and the z32 is good for 450 ish, not 550 as i thought.
the j30 has no aftermarket support. that makes it kind of fun to play with, because its unique.
actually, my project is on hold becuase someone stole my project car a few months ago. now im just keeping a lookout for cheap J's.
i orginally wanted an RB, but after its initial cost [rb26] and the fact that parts arent readily available, a mild to moderate boosted VH just seems like a better choice due to the broader torque [J30 is 3500-3600 lbs] range.
im now trying to explore my options about modifing/having an adaptor made for a z32 trans or a T56 or the like. hopefully a Z32 flywheel will bolt to the VH crank, and the z32 trans will need minor modification. that would be good, but not likely.
the j30 has no aftermarket support. that makes it kind of fun to play with, because its unique.
actually, my project is on hold becuase someone stole my project car a few months ago. now im just keeping a lookout for cheap J's.
i orginally wanted an RB, but after its initial cost [rb26] and the fact that parts arent readily available, a mild to moderate boosted VH just seems like a better choice due to the broader torque [J30 is 3500-3600 lbs] range.
im now trying to explore my options about modifing/having an adaptor made for a z32 trans or a T56 or the like. hopefully a Z32 flywheel will bolt to the VH crank, and the z32 trans will need minor modification. that would be good, but not likely.
Hmmm... First off I gotta tell you I DEFINATELY like the setup, I take it its not to common...IvoryJ30t wrote:yeah, the new .NET CRL looks like fun to get the hang of. im still working my way through ANSI C++. figured i would at least put an effort into learning to code. ive neglected coding in favor of hardware/OS admin.
the j30 has a RWD 3.0l v6 [vg30de] the vh45de is a 4.5l dohc v8.
the VH uses a single large maf. the maf is larger than the z32 maf which is said to support 550 hp.
what size is the gm maf your using? im assuming its an F body maf.
what i want to do is have two small gt25 turbos on log manifolds.to maintain a single MAF, i want a pod filter to each turbo, and ill make a FMIC with two bottom inlets and a single top outlet. that single pipe through the maf, then to the throttle body.
i want to use the stock intake because the motor will be stock internals on 6-10 psi. i dont know if i want to go higher than that because of the stock 10.2 compression. a fuel controller like this would be perfect to pull some fuel out for larger injectors, and the GM maf which im pretty sure is bigger than the q45 maf. i have to check it out.
I made this system with the GM 3" MAF, which supports around 500-600 whp. GM put this MAF in like EVERYTHING post 1996, almost all of the 3x00 v6s, the LT1, etc. You can find them all over ebay, junkyards, etc.. They are a dime a dozen and KILL almost all other MAFs for resolution and range. GM also makes a 3.5" MAF which is used I believe in the LS1s or maybe the Z06. This MAF is proven to support I think like 800 or so whp, for now I wont bother integrating that MAF to the system simply because it costs more than the 3", and is harder to mount and I doubt anyone using my system with a KA will overrun the GM 3".
shoot me an email about the MAF if you are still interested I have an idea for you, but I don't want to get too off topic here.
Murray
I have great experience so far with PICs and i'm teaching myself the AVR architecture right now (not too difficult at all), but I don't as of yet have any DSP experience. 50mhz sounds to me like either a scenix chip or a DSP.. anyway I'm always available to talk via phone, email, IM, etc just let me know .. This project sounds great so far! I'm extremely impressed that you are moving so quickly on it ...DSMs_Suck wrote:wsc... I may get in contact with you if I need anything...
I personally am a computer engineer, does your schools EE program work much with embedded systems? I do have one little thing I would like help with but it requires a pretty broad understanding of embedded systems.
Murray
Ok took some quick pictures of the setup, mind you it was a little dark:Front of MAFT Controller
Back of MAFT Controller (The cable seen is the Cable to the GM MAF):
GM MAF running the car... Yes I know, its a sock just to prove it doesn't matter how or where its hooked up:http://www.topstreetperformanc...1.jpg
Still don't believe me here is the lonely KA MAF:http://www.topstreetperformanc...F.jpg
Picture of the MAFT connected to the laptop and running:
And finally here is a video of me with the car off.. Starting the car, connecting to the MAFT with the laptop, revving, doing some data viewing/logging:http://www.topstreetperformanc...T.MPG
Back of MAFT Controller (The cable seen is the Cable to the GM MAF):
GM MAF running the car... Yes I know, its a sock just to prove it doesn't matter how or where its hooked up:http://www.topstreetperformanc...1.jpg
Still don't believe me here is the lonely KA MAF:http://www.topstreetperformanc...F.jpg
Picture of the MAFT connected to the laptop and running:
And finally here is a video of me with the car off.. Starting the car, connecting to the MAFT with the laptop, revving, doing some data viewing/logging:http://www.topstreetperformanc...T.MPG
As of now nothing. You can either purchase a boost master to allow for timing retard that is computer controlled. Otherwise I will eventually make an all in one unit.
I would like to point out that for most people, especially those running 550cc injectors or smaller. You are plenty safe by just knocking back the base timing a few degrees.
Murray
I would like to point out that for most people, especially those running 550cc injectors or smaller. You are plenty safe by just knocking back the base timing a few degrees.
Murray
[quote]those running 550cc injectors or smaller. You are plenty safe by just knocking back the base timing a few degrees.[\quote]
Murray, that's like saying just go ahead and get an S-AFC rather than your MAFT! It all depends what kind of fuel is used (Cali is only 91 oct), ambient temperature, elevation, humidity, driveability and comfort level of the driver.
I think why there is interest in your MAFT is because:-real-time tunability, -ability to tune in 3D, -getting rid of that tiny S13 MAF-easy injector conversion with global fuel setting-ignition map changes (hopefully)-to have at least 1 North American piece on the car
Did I miss anything?
BTW, great video!
Murray, that's like saying just go ahead and get an S-AFC rather than your MAFT! It all depends what kind of fuel is used (Cali is only 91 oct), ambient temperature, elevation, humidity, driveability and comfort level of the driver.
I think why there is interest in your MAFT is because:-real-time tunability, -ability to tune in 3D, -getting rid of that tiny S13 MAF-easy injector conversion with global fuel setting-ignition map changes (hopefully)-to have at least 1 North American piece on the car
Did I miss anything?
BTW, great video!
NateDogg wrote:those running 550cc injectors or smaller. You are plenty safe by just knocking back the base timing a few degrees.[\quote]
Murray, that's like saying just go ahead and get an S-AFC rather than your MAFT! It all depends what kind of fuel is used (Cali is only 91 oct), ambient temperature, elevation, humidity, driveability and comfort level of the driver.
I think why there is interest in your MAFT is because:-real-time tunability, -ability to tune in 3D, -getting rid of that tiny S13 MAF-easy injector conversion with global fuel setting-ignition map changes (hopefully)-to have at least 1 North American piece on the car
Did I miss anything?
BTW, great video!
Also don't forget that with this you can run blow through!
I agree that it is a very "blanket" statement, about the timing. Nate is right, use discretion when tuning for your gas, your intercooler, etc etc. All I mean to say here is that you can knock back your base timing with a turn of a distributer and can safely run without the NEED for a timing control... Would it help, definately. Just saying from experience with jake's KA-T with a pretty good amount of power, all that was done was taking out about 5 degrees of base ignition timing, and the car runs great. Also do realize I know for a fact all S14s, and I think all KA24DEs have a knock sensor, which will help you out a ton. I wouldn't say it will save you from EVERYTHING but that with the timing bumped back a bit (again, the amount this is changed depends on your setup), and that should keep things inline.
I am stoked about this setup. So it will allow for relocation of the MAF right up to the TB or was that just for testing. My interest in an MAP was strictly for relocation purposes, I would prefer MAF no question. I also am interested in timing control, that is half the fun of an EMS, also, I think it would be neat to have a little more info logged for tuning purposes, say ability for Coolant temp, ambient air temp, egt, etc. So when tuning is done, ambient factors can be taken into account. Also, a wideband O2 would be well worth figuring out. But I definately agree it would be nice to have some american gear, and your setup looks like fun, I would definately be interested in a final version.
Chezedik, All good questions that I don't know if I have addressed...
- Ok, first as far as system requirements for your laptop... funny enough I honestly don't know. I am trying to keep it pretty basic so that it can be run on an older machine with windows 95 or windows 98 on it. I will have a little more info on that once I can check to see how it does on windows 98 (maybe later today).
- Yes you can run the MAF essentially WHEREVER you want. You can put it after the BOV (and before the TB) on turbo charged applications and then vent your BOV to the atmosphere with ZERO problems. You can run it draw through right at the filter if you would like. Whatever floats your boat, it will all generate the same signal in the end (gotta love MAF ).
- I admit timing control would be awesome. However I do want everyone to realize this IS still a piggyback, and I am definately not here to compete directly with the AEM. However my unit is what... less than a 1/4 the cost, and thats WITH the MAF. I will tell you all now, things may be looking up for the timing control, I have a good idea on how to get a boost master style timing retard function implemented. My idea would be this: Have it 2D adjustable MAFT voltage vs. Timing retard.. Also do note this would be a timing RETARD ONLY, that retards off the stock timing map. If you want to advance it (not that most people do) you would have to advance the base timing lets say 5 degrees, then you could pick and choose where to retard the timing back to normal.*I will begin to start playing with the timing retard idea, after I complete the 3D fuel version* So I will probably release the fuel controller + MAFT version first. Don't worry though because I can always upgrade your unit if you send it to me and pay the difference in price between the 2 units.
- Tuning/Datalogging stuff.. Honestly for now, Im gonna have to keep it basically the way it is, later on I may add a feature that will datalog Injector pulse. For now its: RPM, MAF%, O2 volts (will LOG narrowband or wideband), and Throttle. I could potentially add the other things you said to a different version, but based on my current hardware design, having all those parameters is kind of out of the question.But
Not sure what you meant by "flashed" so I will answer both possibilities: - Yes the units can be flashed for upgrades, however you will need to send me it... - What I think you were asking was if the laptop was needed to run the MAFT.. The answer to that is NO WAY . All you need the laptop for is to datalog or to change the fuel settings (later on ignition settings) if need be. Once you change them they are stored internally in the ECU in EEPROM. If you lose your fuel settings on the laptop its not a big deal either the MAFT controller automatically sends the fuel settings from the MAFT to the laptop everytime it connects.
I really could use an S14 tester honestly, but if you are interested and have a working KAT feel free to email me.
Murray
- Ok, first as far as system requirements for your laptop... funny enough I honestly don't know. I am trying to keep it pretty basic so that it can be run on an older machine with windows 95 or windows 98 on it. I will have a little more info on that once I can check to see how it does on windows 98 (maybe later today).
- Yes you can run the MAF essentially WHEREVER you want. You can put it after the BOV (and before the TB) on turbo charged applications and then vent your BOV to the atmosphere with ZERO problems. You can run it draw through right at the filter if you would like. Whatever floats your boat, it will all generate the same signal in the end (gotta love MAF
).- I admit timing control would be awesome. However I do want everyone to realize this IS still a piggyback, and I am definately not here to compete directly with the AEM. However my unit is what... less than a 1/4 the cost, and thats WITH the MAF. I will tell you all now, things may be looking up for the timing control, I have a good idea on how to get a boost master style timing retard function implemented. My idea would be this: Have it 2D adjustable MAFT voltage vs. Timing retard.. Also do note this would be a timing RETARD ONLY, that retards off the stock timing map. If you want to advance it (not that most people do) you would have to advance the base timing lets say 5 degrees, then you could pick and choose where to retard the timing back to normal.*I will begin to start playing with the timing retard idea, after I complete the 3D fuel version* So I will probably release the fuel controller + MAFT version first. Don't worry though because I can always upgrade your unit if you send it to me and pay the difference in price between the 2 units.
- Tuning/Datalogging stuff.. Honestly for now, Im gonna have to keep it basically the way it is, later on I may add a feature that will datalog Injector pulse. For now its: RPM, MAF%, O2 volts (will LOG narrowband or wideband), and Throttle. I could potentially add the other things you said to a different version, but based on my current hardware design, having all those parameters is kind of out of the question.But
Not sure what you meant by "flashed" so I will answer both possibilities: - Yes the units can be flashed for upgrades, however you will need to send me it... - What I think you were asking was if the laptop was needed to run the MAFT.. The answer to that is NO WAY
. All you need the laptop for is to datalog or to change the fuel settings (later on ignition settings) if need be. Once you change them they are stored internally in the ECU in EEPROM. If you lose your fuel settings on the laptop its not a big deal either the MAFT controller automatically sends the fuel settings from the MAFT to the laptop everytime it connects.I really could use an S14 tester honestly, but if you are interested and have a working KAT feel free to email me.
Murray
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Ubernoober
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I have a 93 240 with a SR20det ,50lb injectors Z32 mafs Gt25R turbo and just tuned to Super AFC2 and a 95 240sx just got the new motor in it , 1400 miles as we speak. I am currently using jim wolf ecu on8:5 to 1 KA turbo, the 3 bar plus mafs adjustment to supposedly 550 flywheel with "Big kahuna" t4 72lb injectors, wideband ,all engine parts from ka24de.com ross pistons, rods, complete valve train,jimwolf cams,etc. Anyways, I am surely interested in doing some tuning and really would like to go to a stand alone. The car runs great now ,but I am hoping to see if it can run better, more effecient and maybe get rid of the damn silly OBD2 codes that will randomly come ,EGR, rear o2, silly ones like that. Will this engine management eliminate some of this?What else will you need ? MSD ignition ? And possibly will you have something I can put on my SR car also later? I would be interested in buying and giving you some feedback . Will your base maps be real good and work with 8:5 to 1 compression etc.email me some info .Thanks mike
This unit is actually a middle ground between a full standalone and a piggyback controller such as the SAFC... It will allow for ALOT more tuning than an SAFC, as it is a FULL 3D map (more on this later). It also allows for a further range of correction. Finally it employes a translator which allows you to get rid of the stock AFM in trade for a GM sensor which is far superior to the stock sensor, and is even superior to a z32 AFM.
However, honestly if you are going balls to the wall here.. it can't beat a standalone... again I'm not trying to compete with AEM's standalone.
I am intending this to be used on a car that is looking for more than just an SAFC (or SAFC2). However doesn't want to spend over a grand for a standalone, and doesn't need all the extras that come with the standalone.. Again as it stands its less than a 1/4 of the price!
If I do go through with the ignition retard capabilites, it will be basically the most BAD *** piggyback... just short of a standalone.
With that said...
However, honestly if you are going balls to the wall here.. it can't beat a standalone... again I'm not trying to compete with AEM's standalone.
I am intending this to be used on a car that is looking for more than just an SAFC (or SAFC2). However doesn't want to spend over a grand for a standalone, and doesn't need all the extras that come with the standalone.. Again as it stands its less than a 1/4 of the price!
If I do go through with the ignition retard capabilites, it will be basically the most BAD *** piggyback... just short of a standalone.
With that said...
I HAVE THE 3D FUEL MAPS WORKING!!!
Ok so I spent much of the weekend working on this project (the gf was gone with friends most of the time)... I have a full 3D fuel map working... along with a few features that can assist in tuning.
The map is adjustable RPM vs. Translated MAF voltage. As such the map is a fine tuning map... The translator will work with a general tune, but after translating the signal it will apply your 3D fuel map to the final output signal.
So I went a little overboard... the PC interface is actually pretty bad *** for the map.. and includes the following features: - Color coded maps to help visualize.. with shading - Fully 3D graph of the MAP... Rotatable anyway - When datalogging, the map will trace so you can see what the MAFT is doing in REAL TIME <- BAD *** FEATURE! What this means in layman's terms is that the current cell in the 3D fuel map will be highlighted to show you where the MAFT is reading from... SO if you feel a stutter somewhere you can drive around while watching the map and once you feel the stutter/problem you will know exactly where the map is to be modified - Map tuning features to help using the map: - Create Hole/Bump in the MAP, using smoothing algorithms - Fill entire row (RPM) with value - Add value to entire row (RPM) - Fill entire column (MAF%) with value - Add value to entire column (MAF%) - View table in 3D graph mode - Set translucancy on the 3D graph (can make it see through and keep it in the background) <- Eye candy.
So... ill bet you all want to see pics.. those will be next
Ok so I spent much of the weekend working on this project (the gf was gone with friends most of the time)... I have a full 3D fuel map working... along with a few features that can assist in tuning.
The map is adjustable RPM vs. Translated MAF voltage. As such the map is a fine tuning map... The translator will work with a general tune, but after translating the signal it will apply your 3D fuel map to the final output signal.
So I went a little overboard... the PC interface is actually pretty bad *** for the map.. and includes the following features: - Color coded maps to help visualize.. with shading
- Fully 3D graph of the MAP... Rotatable anyway - When datalogging, the map will trace so you can see what the MAFT is doing in REAL TIME <- BAD *** FEATURE! What this means in layman's terms is that the current cell in the 3D fuel map will be highlighted to show you where the MAFT is reading from... SO if you feel a stutter somewhere you can drive around while watching the map and once you feel the stutter/problem you will know exactly where the map is to be modified - Map tuning features to help using the map: - Create Hole/Bump in the MAP, using smoothing algorithms - Fill entire row (RPM) with value - Add value to entire row (RPM) - Fill entire column (MAF%) with value - Add value to entire column (MAF%) - View table in 3D graph mode - Set translucancy on the 3D graph (can make it see through and keep it in the background) <- Eye candy.So... ill bet you all want to see pics.. those will be next
MAFT 3D fuel map with just base map.. (NO fine tuning):
MAFT 3D fuel with a TOTALLY fake fine tuning map.. just shows pretty colors and all.. :
Finally a picture of the 3D graph with 25% translucancy over the table. You can move the graph anywhere you want and resize it to whatever size... the translucancy can be 0-100% :
Hopefully I will have another video from the cheapy digital camera sometime tomorrow that shows the 3d map working and the trace mode operational.
Murray
MAFT 3D fuel with a TOTALLY fake fine tuning map.. just shows pretty colors and all.. :
Finally a picture of the 3D graph with 25% translucancy over the table. You can move the graph anywhere you want and resize it to whatever size... the translucancy can be 0-100% :
Hopefully I will have another video from the cheapy digital camera sometime tomorrow that shows the 3d map working and the trace mode operational.
Murray
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