Need some help selecting engine oil
Need some help selecting engine oil
Okay my father just bought an '03 Q45 back in November. It has now come time for it's first oil change. For the past 10-11 years we have all used synthetic oil in our cars. Say what you will, in the past ten years no one in my family has ever had so much as a valve cover or throttle body removed from a car for repair (i.e. never had a veicle suffer any serious mechanical failure.) So I was flipping through the owner's maual on the car this evening and I noticed something that seemed somewhat odd. It said Infiniti reccomends the use of mineral based (dinosaur by-product) oil. Then I checked the owner's manual for my car (97 I30.) It recommends either mineral or synthetic base oil. It seems somewhat strange that my older car would suggest either one whereas the Q45 recommends a mineral base oil. But it's also strange that they suggest a low friction, energy conserving oil, when the best low friction oils are synthetic bases. I like Infiniti products. I drive one. My next car will most likely be one. But I'm wondering if this isn't yet another stupid move on behalf of Nissan that ultimately serves to give it an inferior image. Or is it a scam to get people to change their oil more frequently by the dealer. It's some real BS that the Q45 calls for oil changes every 3750 miles whereas a Mercedes E-class has intervals every 15K. As a matter of fact most other high end luxury cars have oil change intervals much higher than 3750 miles. I don't want responses questioning why I should want synthetic oil over dinosaur crap. I don't want to start a debate over what is a better oil. I have my opinion and everyone else is entitled to thier own, but it's not relevant to this post. I don't have a problem with frequent oil changes, I change the oil in my motorcycle every 1500 miles. I do it myself and it still costs me 65$ per change because full synthetic motorcycle oil costs about 14$ per liter. So the frequency of oil changes and the cost of oil changes are not the issue. What is an issue is the fact that the owner's manual calls for what I and my father believe (through experience and research) to be the use of an inferior product. Neither he nor I am interested in voiding the warranty of a brand new 60K$ car. Is does not say that using synthetic will void the warranty, it merely states that they recommend using mineral base oil. So if a problem arises it gives the dealer leeway to be a prick. So, does the owner's manual call for dinosaur remains for legitimate reasons, or do they do it to get you into the dealer so they can keep gouging you for overpriced maintenance. I know I said cost is not an issue, and from an affordability standpoint it isn't. We just don't want to spend money we don't think we should have to spend. We don't want to pay the dealer 75$ for regular oil every 3750 miles when we can pay the valvoline place 50$ for full synthetic every 3750 miles. So could someone enlighten me as to why the owner's manual calls for mineral base oil, and if it's bad to use synthetic? I know this is long winded, but I wanted to leave an impression on my first post.
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Nismo_Freak
- Posts: 10314
- Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:42 pm
- Car: 89 Nissan 240SX
Re: Need some help selecting engine oil
JHowell37 wrote:1)Okay my father just bought an '03 Q45 back in November.
2) It has now come time for it's first oil change. 3)For the past 10-11 years we have all used synthetic oil in our cars. Say what you will, in the past ten years no one in my family has ever had so much as a valve cover or throttle body removed from a car for repair (i.e. never had a veicle suffer any serious mechanical failure.) 4) So I was flipping through the owner's maual on the car this evening and I noticed something that seemed somewhat odd. It said Infiniti reccomends the use of mineral based (dinosaur by-product) oil. 5)Then I checked the owner's manual for my car (97 I30.) It recommends either mineral or synthetic base oil. 6)'s also strange that they suggest a low friction, energy conserving oil, when the best low friction oils are synthetic bases. 7)Or is it a scam to get people to change their oil more frequently by the dealer. It's some real BS that the Q45 calls for oil changes every 3750 miles 8)whereas a Mercedes E-class has intervals every 15K. As a matter of fact most other high end luxury cars have oil change intervals much higher than 3750 miles. 9)What is an issue is the fact that the owner's manual calls for what I and my father believe (through experience and research) to be the use of an inferior product. 10)So if a problem arises it gives the dealer leeway to be a prick. So, does the owner's manual call for dinosaur remains for legitimate reasons, 11) do they do it to get you into the dealer so they can keep gouging you for overpriced maintenance. 11)I know I said cost is not an issue, and from an affordability standpoint it isn't. We just don't want to spend money we don't think we should have to spend. 12)We don't want to pay the dealer 75$ for regular oil every 3750 miles when we can pay the valvoline place 50$ for full synthetic every 3750 miles. So could someone enlighten me as to why the owner's manual calls for mineral base oil, 13)and if it's bad to use synthetic? I know this is long winded, 14)but I wanted to leave an impression on my first post.
1)Congratulations!Love those cars VK45de is a good engine too!2)You are still on break in at this point Infiniti engines in general and VK's in particular seem to take longer to break-in than most.3)Makes sens e most of us here like synthetic oils.4)That is indeed odd. Likely has to do with the fact that oil change intervals are shorter this way, sometimes PPL with syns think they can go a couple of years w/o changing.6) Syn oil meet the best requirements and this is what I would use perhaps wait one more oil change for a bit more break in.7)I wouldnt call it a scam. Its actully good procedure to have someone look under the car for safety if nothing else at least once every 90 days or 3750 miles which ever comes first. This way small problems can be caught before thy become big ones.As for safety again, one can nneverr know if a tech migth not spot a cracked tire froma road hazard that otehrwise would ahve been unnoticed. At a quicky lube the "tech" likely wont bother to look in most cases. And most cases is what a manufacturer will go by.Personally I use 3000 to 3500 mile oil change with syn and OEM filters (which are very good filters in all respects, construction , filtration and flow, better that what your quickie lube will put in)8) Yes but MB and BMW have had some problems with cars run the extent of those intervals indicators.9)I agree syn is much better especially a PAO rgoup IV or better syn. Some non syn are also very good today Chevron Supreme, Any shell oil with XLVHI base stocks,Also nearly all non syn oils meet API SL.On the other hand most syns meet at least the lower ACEA specs (thougher than API SL), with the best meeting ACEA A3. Check the back of your bottles ACEA A3 is what you need with a performance engine ( ACEA A5 is <not> higher spec).Viscosity also plays a role for example most 30 weights even if synthetic cant meet ACEA A3 ( but ACEA A1 instead),Mobil1 0w-40 is an excellent oil (PAO lubestock) as is this one:http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....il%2A10) you wont have to worry abpout that, the only leeway dealers would possibly have is if you used a non API approved oil. Infinti requires API SL to be used in new vehicles if your oil meets that spec its approved. Also remember this is not a Dodge dealership legitimate warranty claims will never be denied at an Infiniti dealer.Quite the opposite often dealers cover stuff that is clearly beyond of what they need to. Infinti delaers ahve a histroy for often covereing a bit beyond time and/or milage, just to keep good will.12) You dont have to but beware of quicky lubes unless you ahev a rela good relation with the quickie lube shop <and> keep an eye on the car while they are under it. Personally I wouldn't entrust a 2k3 Q maintenance job to someone making $7/hr.13) No its not bad, use it after your scond oil change ( assuming 3500-4000 mile intervals).14) we like meticulous members, we are all like this.
Again welcome to NICO!
Fred..
Well, I got to the bottom of this today. I called Infiniti Customer Service. They said the reason for only recommending petrol base oil is because they haven't done any extensive testing with synthetics. They said as long as it meets the API, SAE, BFE, whatever standards then use whatever. That and viscosity are most important.
I took it to the Valvoline place. If you are a meticulous prick like me, those places are fine. I stand over top of the car and make them show me the old oil filter they have removed. I constantly ask questions, not to gain new knowledge but to make sure they are thinking.
When I think of engine break-ins, I think like the motorcyclist I am. Most of the guidelines that tell you to take it easy on the vehicle, and all that are there so the manufacturer can cover themself. The day I bought my bike I had my brother come with me. I signed the paperwork, went to the parts counter, bought some oil and a filter. Then I went outside and got the run down on the bike. I put the oil and filter in my brother's car and told him to meet me at the house. I ran the hell out of the bike all the way home (about 25 miles.) Got home, put the bike up on the stand and drained the oil and removed the filter. Ten minutes later my brother got there and I put on the new filter and added oil. I cut open the "old" filter, found the requisite metal shavings, then discarded it. Bike engine broken in. Doesn't burn a drop of oil after 8300 miles. Inspection of subsequent filters has yielded no more metal in the filter element. I'd explain why this works, but this is not the topic for that. Doing this accomplishes what I consider to be a break in. It works for cars as well. On some bikes (BMWs with the boxer engine) if you don't run the piss out of them in the first few hundred miles, they'll burn oil for life. On bikes, I give them about a thousand miles before full synthetic. The car gets it on the first change. Like I said no catastrophic engine failures in ten years and close to a million miles driven during that time, in this house.
Shell does make some good (albeit obtuse) stuff. Good luck finding it around here. Most people are more than willing to accept Wolf's Head.
As far as warranties, way back in '89 my parents bought my older brother and '89 Mercury Tracer, brand new, when he turned 16. It had a stickshift. He learned to drive on this car, my sister did, and finally I did. You can imagine the sorry state the trans and clutch were in by the time I started to drive. The clutch went out about two months after I started driving (but it actually lasted 70,000 miles, not bad for three teenagers.) A week after we got the clutch replaced, I was out taking full advantage of the new clutch, and second gear gave it up. We limped the car back to the dealer and they wound up replacing second, third, and fourth gears inthe car. Thank God my parents bought the extended warranty which covered all but the 50$ deductible. This was a clear case of abuse, but they took care of it anyway. So I can't worry too much about warranty issues not being resolved.
I did use an OEM filter in the Q45. The OEM filters do have a better feel then the standard Fram, or whatever. Something interesting to know about late model Nissan oil filters. Just about all of their late model cars use the same filter. So the 60K$ '03 Q45 uses the same filter as a 96 sentra. Seems a little odd, but still a good idea, at least you'll never have to worry about the dealer running out.
I took it to the Valvoline place. If you are a meticulous prick like me, those places are fine. I stand over top of the car and make them show me the old oil filter they have removed. I constantly ask questions, not to gain new knowledge but to make sure they are thinking.
When I think of engine break-ins, I think like the motorcyclist I am. Most of the guidelines that tell you to take it easy on the vehicle, and all that are there so the manufacturer can cover themself. The day I bought my bike I had my brother come with me. I signed the paperwork, went to the parts counter, bought some oil and a filter. Then I went outside and got the run down on the bike. I put the oil and filter in my brother's car and told him to meet me at the house. I ran the hell out of the bike all the way home (about 25 miles.) Got home, put the bike up on the stand and drained the oil and removed the filter. Ten minutes later my brother got there and I put on the new filter and added oil. I cut open the "old" filter, found the requisite metal shavings, then discarded it. Bike engine broken in. Doesn't burn a drop of oil after 8300 miles. Inspection of subsequent filters has yielded no more metal in the filter element. I'd explain why this works, but this is not the topic for that. Doing this accomplishes what I consider to be a break in. It works for cars as well. On some bikes (BMWs with the boxer engine) if you don't run the piss out of them in the first few hundred miles, they'll burn oil for life. On bikes, I give them about a thousand miles before full synthetic. The car gets it on the first change. Like I said no catastrophic engine failures in ten years and close to a million miles driven during that time, in this house.
Shell does make some good (albeit obtuse) stuff. Good luck finding it around here. Most people are more than willing to accept Wolf's Head.
As far as warranties, way back in '89 my parents bought my older brother and '89 Mercury Tracer, brand new, when he turned 16. It had a stickshift. He learned to drive on this car, my sister did, and finally I did. You can imagine the sorry state the trans and clutch were in by the time I started to drive. The clutch went out about two months after I started driving (but it actually lasted 70,000 miles, not bad for three teenagers.) A week after we got the clutch replaced, I was out taking full advantage of the new clutch, and second gear gave it up. We limped the car back to the dealer and they wound up replacing second, third, and fourth gears inthe car. Thank God my parents bought the extended warranty which covered all but the 50$ deductible. This was a clear case of abuse, but they took care of it anyway. So I can't worry too much about warranty issues not being resolved.
I did use an OEM filter in the Q45. The OEM filters do have a better feel then the standard Fram, or whatever. Something interesting to know about late model Nissan oil filters. Just about all of their late model cars use the same filter. So the 60K$ '03 Q45 uses the same filter as a 96 sentra. Seems a little odd, but still a good idea, at least you'll never have to worry about the dealer running out.
Howell-
Up until a short time ago there were two filters-one for the Q, Z , and a few others, and one for other lines. Then one was discontinued. At the same time production was moved from Japan to other plants. Quite a few of us have caches of the old Japanese filters. I don't think we have come to a real conclusion here on the quality difference.
My prejudice, largely without technical foundation, is for the made in Japan label when I buy a part. It feels right, and Nissan parts meet the common sense test that, for the top of the line, the engineers did the best possible design job. But, the reality is that Renault has to think globally, and begin to standardize and hedge labor and currencies.
Up until a short time ago there were two filters-one for the Q, Z , and a few others, and one for other lines. Then one was discontinued. At the same time production was moved from Japan to other plants. Quite a few of us have caches of the old Japanese filters. I don't think we have come to a real conclusion here on the quality difference.
My prejudice, largely without technical foundation, is for the made in Japan label when I buy a part. It feels right, and Nissan parts meet the common sense test that, for the top of the line, the engineers did the best possible design job. But, the reality is that Renault has to think globally, and begin to standardize and hedge labor and currencies.
Dennis,
Aren't you concerned about flow issues with the high filtering Mobil 1 filter?
I am willing to give up some filtration in exchange for a freer flowing filter OEM, which also has very good internal construction.
Of course they all go in bypass at some point anyway...
Those filters are so nice I never did cut open a 15218-60U00, but I remebr seeing one at T3 at the 15218-55Y00 looked just the same to me.
No cellaphane wrap around the filter.
Fred..
PS: I any case I still have 5 15218-60U00 hoarded..
Aren't you concerned about flow issues with the high filtering Mobil 1 filter?
I am willing to give up some filtration in exchange for a freer flowing filter OEM, which also has very good internal construction.
Of course they all go in bypass at some point anyway...
Those filters are so nice I never did cut open a 15218-60U00, but I remebr seeing one at T3 at the 15218-55Y00 looked just the same to me.
No cellaphane wrap around the filter.
Fred..
PS: I any case I still have 5 15218-60U00 hoarded..
One really underappreciated filter is the Walmart ST3600.I always thought it was too cheap to be any good but reports and cut open on some oil forums are positive.
If I ever have to make an oil change on a budget I'll use the ST3600.Right now I am still sticking w/ OEM.
Perfect fit and a bit oversized for more capacity.
Fred..
If I ever have to make an oil change on a budget I'll use the ST3600.Right now I am still sticking w/ OEM.
Perfect fit and a bit oversized for more capacity.
Fred..
MOBIL1 is among the best filtering filters out there, good construction too.I was using it myself all teht iem and probably posted thats what I use.
But with that much filtering I wonder if flow is as good as OEM especially in high speed applications.
Of course as soon as oil pressure comes too high bypass opens anyway, so this may not be significant.
Still OEM filters are half price and are sure to have a good balance between filtration and flow.
I don't dislike the Mobil1 filter, have used a lot myself.
But lately I have seen internal cosntruction of some cheaper filters and liked it. And in the last 2 years I have become to trust other less expensive filters as much (Bosch, OEM)
Fred...
But with that much filtering I wonder if flow is as good as OEM especially in high speed applications.
Of course as soon as oil pressure comes too high bypass opens anyway, so this may not be significant.
Still OEM filters are half price and are sure to have a good balance between filtration and flow.
I don't dislike the Mobil1 filter, have used a lot myself.
But lately I have seen internal cosntruction of some cheaper filters and liked it. And in the last 2 years I have become to trust other less expensive filters as much (Bosch, OEM)
Fred...