my KA-T buy list -- watcha think?

[fiznat]

Okay, here's a list that I've compiled from all my searching around. PLEASE let me know if you see anything wrong with this setup OR if you know of places where I can get the parts cheaper.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it!

Turbo: T3/T4B Hybrid from http://64.225.76.178/catalog/t3t4.html $556

Manafold: Importautopeformance Custom Equal Length from http://www.import-autoperforma...s.htm $699 (ughh I really dont want to spend this much--- where can you buy revhard manafolds or another good equal-length type?)

Wastegate: Tial 35mm Wastegate .45 bar spring from http://www.store.yahoo.com/sr2....html $225

Fuel Pump: Walbro 244 lph Fuel Pump from http://www.heavythrottle.com $119

Timing Control MSD BTM Boost Timing Control http://www.overboost.com/obs/p...name= $201.70

Ignition Module MSD 6a Ignition Control Module from http://www.overboost.com/obs/p...name= $206.90

Injectors 370cc from http://shop.store.yahoo.com/sr....html $100 (are these $100 each or $100 for a set of 4??)

Air/Fuel Control: A'Pexi SAFC II, in black from http://www.phase2motortrend.com/apsafdig.html $315

Blow Off Valve: HKS Super Sequential and Recirculation fitting from http://www.store.yahoo.com/sr2....html $215 + $11

Intercooler Kit: Greddy VSPL S13 Intercooler Kit from http://www.phase2motortrend.com/gredvssr20de.html $752

Clutch: Centerforce Dual Friction and throwout bearing For KA24DE engine from http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/power.html $228 + $25

Exhaust: Apexi N1 Dual Or Greddy DD from http://www.heavythrottle.com $500

Please let me know what you guys think, I'm about to start buying things peice by peice... I dont think Ive made any mistakes but let me know if you see any. I know I'm going to need small stuff like oil lines and gaskets and whatnot also, I tried to just include the bigger things. I know I'll need another hotpipe and a downpipe as well... not sure what I'm going to do about those things. Right now I'm aiming for 7-8 psi on stock internals.

Thanks again!

[SingleCamSam]

You could definitely save some cash if your goal is 7-8 psi.

-Fuel Pump: Stock $0-MSD BTM for stock ignition: $125 at summit racing-NPR Intercooler with custom piping: $300-"De-Leaked" DSM Blow off valve: $40

[HolyShiznit]

You can find MUCH cheaper T3/T04e's on ebay, they average 250-350. They are either new or rebuilt by a company with like 100% positive feedback.

You can buy the DSM blow off valve, save TONS of money and still have that cool PSHHHHHHH sound.

You can probably save a TON of money also on the intercooler but if you don't want to have a shop custom make the piping then I guess that's ya best bet.

If you are going to buy the MSD stuff and a SAFC II you realize that after all the money is spent you will be like 100 or so bucks off from a stand alone system? Why not just buy one and save your money? No point in buying the timing stuff if you are going 7-8psi anyways. You should be ok by just backing off your stock timing. But that's just me.

It wouldn't cost that much to have a shop wield the JGS tools manifold and it would cost probably less than half of what you are going to spend on that manifold. (Geezuz christ man 600+ bucks??)

I paid less for everything that you listed up there but that's me and I hunted around. If you are willing to pay it then go ahead, and good luck no matter what.

[fiznat]

well it makes more sense to let you guys know that I only plan on STARTING with 7-8 psi on the stock internals. When I have more money I plan on building the motor- and then the sky is the limit basically... I didnt want to buy anything that I wouldnt also be able to use at higher boost levels.... hmph but then again maybe I wont ever do that and I'm just wasitng my money

[fiznat]

[quote=" HolyShiznit You can find MUCH cheaper T3/T04e's on ebay, they average 250-350. They are either new or rebuilt by a company with like 100% positive feedback.[/quote]

I did a search for "T3/T04e" and only came up with 1 $500 turbo... what do you search for to find the ones you're talking about?

[quote=" HolyShiznit

You can buy the DSM blow off valve, save TONS of money and still have that cool PSHHHHHHH sound.[/quote]

Hmm that's interesting-- what model DSM BOV are you talking about (or are they all the same?) Can they be had new, or are you talking about just getting a used one off of ebay?

[quote=" HolyShiznit You can probably save a TON of money also on the intercooler but if you don't want to have a shop custom make the piping then I guess that's ya best bet.[/quote]Yeah I know, I was thinking about just getting a spearco core and having the piping custom made, but I dont know anyone local that can do nice mandrel bends yet. I've been looking around though-- I'm definetly aware of how much $$ I can save in this area- thanks though.

[quote=" HolyShiznit If you are going to buy the MSD stuff and a SAFC II you realize that after all the money is spent you will be like 100 or so bucks off from a stand alone system? Why not just buy one and save your money? [/quote]Which standalone are you talking about? Haltech is expensive as HELL and even the greddy e-manage is much higher than what I'd be spending once you buy all the harnesses you need and whatnot.

[quote=" HolyShiznit It wouldn't cost that much to have a shop wield the JGS tools manifold and it would cost probably less than half of what you are going to spend on that manifold. (Geezuz christ man 600+ bucks??)[/quote]Yeah I knooowww... lol I just felt guilty going with the cheapest manafold available. Do you think I'll really see any sort of difference with log style versus equal length manafolds? You're probably right though, I should go with the log style kit from JGS... it just makes so much more sense..

[quote=" HolyShiznit I paid less for everything that you listed up there but that's me and I hunted around. If you are willing to pay it then go ahead, and good luck no matter what. [/quote]

Thanks alot for your help man... I plan on doing a little more hunting around also- basically the point of this thread was to make sure my SETUP was ok before I concentrate too much on the prices. You're definetly helping me out towards that end alot- so thanks.

[fiznat]

also I was wondering, since I plan on using the T3/T04 turbo, do I need to buy the T3 or the T04 flange for the JGS manafold?

[TopStreet240]

the turbo will be using a T3 flange. Unless you go straight T4 they almost always use a T3 flange. Earlier in the post someone talked about a DSM bov. They are talking about the stock 1st gen bov from all DSM's if you want one just contact me [email protected], i can get you one for cheap.

[HolyShiznit]

Fiznat buddy go on E-bay motors and search for T3 Turbo. You should get a million results. There will be a few companies selling something titled close to "T3/T04e Honda Acura 500hp". Those are the ones I am talking about.

And yes, Structure already answered for me, make sure it is a FIRST GEN DSM blow off valve. The 2nd gens sucked mah balls.

About the standalone, you might not be able to directly swap all of your timing/fuel management stuff directly across for the standalone but you would be quite high up there in the ol' price range. I would just copy Orion's set-up and drop the timing stuff. Just back off the base timing of the car .5 for every psi of boost( I think that's what Orion said) and use the SAFC/II to correct for the fuel. You should be ok.

I went with the JGS tools and just because it is cheap doesn't mean it won't hold up. The Rev Hard manifold will take a LOT of machine work to make sure it works and doesn't crack. With the JGS tools all you have to do it wield the crap in place(and you get to choose where you want to mount the turbo). You still might have to separate the runners though.

Anyways hope this helps!

[fiznat]

Hmm yeah I found those turbos on ebay and damn this looks like a MUCH better option than paying $550 or so for pretty much the same thing. I'll have to wait around to get the A/R ratios I want, but damn for half the price I think it's worth the wait.

As far as the timing stuff I think I'm just going to go with the MSD BTM for stock ignitions (like here: http://store.summitracing.com/...D5462 ). I know you can just adjust the base timing, but for only $165 I think I'd feel safer with the variable (boost-dependent) timing. Ive got 150k on the engine as it is, so I think I'm going to baby it as far as making sure it never sees detonation.

Yeah the JGS manafold doesnt seem like it would be THAT bad... and hell even if it does break, with the money I saved I could buy another before I even catch up to the price of the other manafold I was looking at.

I have a question though, I always thought wastegates attached directly to the turbo-- how come JGS offers an option to "add a wastegate flange" to their manafold? I didnt think the wastegate attached to the manafold itself at all.... or maybe I just dont know what I'm talking about.. Could somebody help clear this up for me?

Hmm also I'm thinking for small stuff: like the manafold to block gasket and whatnot... where is a good place to find these parts? Can I use the stock header gasket or do I need a special one? Also what about oil feed and return lines- what length do you guys find works well? Just planning ahead...

Thats all I can think of right now. Gonna start buying parts pretty soon- thanks so much for all your help guys!

[fiznat]

They are talking about the stock 1st gen bov from all DSM's if you want one just contact me [email protected], i can get you one for cheap.

Hmm I might have to take you up on that. Is it pretty clean or is it kinda messed up like alot of the ebay ones look? Does this BOV vent directly to the atmosphere or does it recirculate? ...or can I do either? Please let me know!

[SingleCamSam]

I would recirculate it. Keeps you out of all the MAF issues.

[fiznat]

yeah I wasnt planning on it anyways (unless its like ultra wake up the neighborhood loud, which I dont think it is...)

[Projex240]

IF YOU DONT WANT TO RECIRCULATE IT, JUST DO A BLOW THROUGH SETUP. CLEANS UP THE INSTALL A BIT AND SOUNDS MUCH COOLER

[fiznat]

haha thanks man... lol and I love that quote in your sig

[cosmo]

I have a question though, I always thought wastegates attached directly to the turbo-- how come JGS offers an option to "add a wastegate flange" to their manafold? I didnt think the wastegate attached to the manafold itself at all.... or maybe I just dont know what I'm talking about.. Could somebody help clear this up for me?

Hmm also I'm thinking for small stuff: like the manafold to block gasket and whatnot... where is a good place to find these parts? Can I use the stock header gasket or do I need a special one? Also what about oil feed and return lines- what length do you guys find works well? Just planning ahead...

Thats all I can think of right now. Gonna start buying parts pretty soon- thanks so much for all your help guys!

Most of the T3/T4 turbos don't come with an internal wastegate so you've gotta get one and put it on the Mani.

I'm pretty sure you can get the gaskets you need at JGS.

[brokeashell]

are there any other options for turboeing the ka? such as the td05-12g turbo from a dsm or a t3 from the old school z's (z31)...what kind of hp number would u be likely to expect with good fine tuning and running 7-9psi

[brokeashell]

btw...does anyone know what kind of 1/4 mi times one should expect with a setup like fiznats?

[aleph1]

that price you have for the turbo is for just the center housing rotating assembly....not the whole turbo....just the center, you want the ones that say Turbo assembly.

The 370cc injectors are usually 100-150 for all 4.

you should check out http://www.groupbuycenter.com/

they have good prices on a lot of that stuff with free shipping most of the time.

EDIT: woah check this deal out, 278 shipped SAFC2 http://www.groupbuycenter.com/buy.aspx?id=12155

[cory2081]

There is also the tubular manifold from Turbo Boss. It's rather expensive, $600-$800, but, it looks like a high quality part. I plan on turbocharging my '96 240 sometime in the future as well. Just looking around for parts!!

[aleph1]

the IAP is one is a far better deal IMHO, NICO members can get it for 650 shipped. THe turbo boss one is listed at 800. Plus the IAP one has supports welded on...And that turbo boos one looks like it doesnt have a wastegate flange on it at all...

BTW- GNs are awesome =) But a KAT is...awesomer

[andrave]

I'd use a cast manifold or you will have cracking eventually.Also for the price of the SAFC you can get a greddy emanage. Of course you will pay more for the harnesses but at least its upgradable to infinity (you won't ever outgrow it) which you eventually will with safc or just timing control. the Z31 turbo's suck, from what i hear, I'd avoid them. Besides a used turbo is just asking for trouble, if you get a used one I'd rebuild it.as for a wastegate an EXTERNAL WASTGATE mounts on a flange, directly on the manifold. An INTERNAL WASTEGATE (typical oem turbo) has the wastegate mounted on the turbo and it vents what the 'gate bleeds off back into the downpipe, where as an external vents to atmosphere unless you hook it back up.Internals are notorious for boost creep issues, but externals give you a little bit more complexity and initial cost.

[aleph1]

I agree that cast is far more durable, but name a good cast manifold that is for top mount turbos (eg NOT RH). Exactly...

I know about wastegates. Im assuming when people put on an aftermarket turbo kit they wont waste their time with internal WGS. Henceforth, I meant EXTERNAL wastegate flange...

The emanage unit itself is around 400, that doesnt come with all the sensors and accessories most people would want. PLUS you need a laptop to program it. Also, like you mentioned wiring issues as greddy doesnt make a 240SX harness...So in the end it really ISNT that cost effective.

[andrave]

um, 400 dollars WHERE? I can get one for 415 used with injector and ignition harnesses, and support tool.a more average price is around 280 dollars new. And thats not much more than safc price (both being new).

Anyway, whats wrong with the revhard manifold?

[aleph1]

Ive seen em around for 400, but i checked ebay and most where about 260-285, so you are correct in that respect. but I still think the fact that the emanage requires a laptop and the pain of trying to wiring it up is enough to make me wanna go with an SAFC and some form of timing control. I would rather have an SDS system than the emanage...BTW- Do you need the E-01 to control boost with the emanage? Just curious, if so, that makes it even more expensive...

Rev Hard is meant for bottom mount (who knows why) and the ports dont match up at all if you top mount it.

[solarex]

I'd use a cast manifold or you will have cracking eventually.

you don't think cast manifolds would crack?!?? i have seen some did, even some oem cast ones. i would say a quality manifold be a quality made equal-length stainless steel one will hold up to all your boosting years.

[cory2081]

yeah, Aleph, my GN was awsome!! I like the 240 better though b/c it's just so damn sporty and good lookin. I got lucky and found a REAL nice one, so, I just had to have it. Cast manifolds are OK. I have never really liked them. As long as you get a tubular one that is made of good stainless (not cheapo steel) and the wall thickness is good, you shouldnt have any problems. If it ever does leak, it can be fixed, unlike cast ones that are not easily welded on, depending on what kind of steel it is. I wonder if ATR (Applied Technologies and Research). They do custom exhaust, mandrel bends, and they use good materials!! I think I have some connections there too....hmmmmmmmm........

[andrave]

I have seen lots of tubular manifolds crack, especially at the welds. While it is true that they can be fixed, that doesn't make it any easier to live with. And I think cast manifolds crack a lot less, at least from what I've seen. another thing to think about is what caused the manifold to crack.. if you have a lot of engine movement or if your exhaust isn't properly secured, this could ver easily account for extra stress on your manifold and crack it.I do agree with the point that cast manifolds are more difficult to repair, though.

Anyway I like the Emanage system, its affordable and can control your entire engine for the same price as safc and some timing controller...I haven't used it but once I started getting boosted its what i plan on using. You don't have to use a laptop, a lot of people think that laptop ownership is required. From what I can tell you should be able to use a desktop just as easily (if you don't mind the bulk, lol). But I have always used laptops, and I am required to get a new one for law school anyway, so its not that big of a deal for me. And the wiring isn't anything I can't handle (at least in theory) so I'm all for it. there is just something that appeals to me about having an engine management that can do whatever I want, without having to worry about piggybacking and manipulating and doing things within the guidelines of the factory ECU.Oh, about the boost- as far as I can tell, you should probably plan on getting a seperate boost controlled if you wanna use emanage. The boost controller that links up with it would be nice but its gonna be at least 400 dollars. If you are gonna go with an electronic boost controller you could easily spend 250 or 350 dollars, and the Greddy one will interface with E manage. Might be something worth saving for, not sure. And of course, if you purchase the boost controller that would also save you having to buy the support tool, if I understand the system correctly.I'm still learning about the Emanage, BTW so if any of this is inaccurate I plead ignorance, just trying to share what I have found.

I searched on the revhard manifold, but it looks like using it top mount isn't that big of a problem, just grinding it to match the exhaust ports, slotting the bolt holes, and cleaning up the casting. Of course, it is true that most of those things should be done from the factory, but I think I'm gonna be using revhard.

[aleph1]

I am aware you can "mod" the RH manifold to fit, but the point is shouldnt it be that way from RH? I have no idea what they were thinking, we need to petition to get them to modify it to fit top mount. =) I believe cast iron is a safer bet as far as daily driving and the like, while the steel ones can be just as strong there are many factors to look over with a steel manifold to see if it is. Its more of a peace of mind with cast I think. IAP guaratees their manifold for 1 year....but a lot of steel manifolds usually start cracking within a few years, sooner if they build crappier, right? Im starting to rethink my manifold plans, as I will need a reliable daily driver so cast might be the way to go. BTW My friends 1st gen eclipse (GS) had a maniold leak, it was cast too =) Dunno what caused it.

Lets put it this way. I am not going to dump a bunch of money on a system that was never built for our cars and nobody, to my knowledge, has tested it on a 240SX. I'll wait to see how your experience is with the Emanage, if all goes well, I dont see why I wouldnt get it =P

BTW- the emanage is still a piggyback system as it does not replace the ECU.

[cory2081]

You get what you pay for, and that probably holds true with the manifold. It's like andrave said, the engine movement can cause these manifolds to crack. So, it may be more of a downpipe design issue rather than the manifold. There should be a movable joint that allows for engine movement. A good torque strap never hurts to keep movement to a minimum

[aleph1]

Well I was planning on making a downpipe with a flex section...