my comments on 248/240 s13 cam swap

Information on the naturally-aspirated KA24E and KA24DE engines.
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DeXteR
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oh yeah, absolutely. maybe i wasn't clear.

MY DRAWINGS ARE NOT TO SCALE!!! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DRILL YOUR OWN CAM GEAR OFF MY DRAWINGS!!! there's a great template you can print out and use from djpants guy's thread. perhaps when i get some free time this winter, i'll grabe that template and an extra cam gear, take some fine measurements and draw a to-scale template that will put the 248 cam at 0*.


Bigvinnie
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DeXteR wrote:oh yeah, absolutely. maybe i wasn't clear.

MY DRAWINGS ARE NOT TO SCALE!!! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DRILL YOUR OWN CAM GEAR OFF MY DRAWINGS!!!
LOL that would suck if a noob really tried to do that.

BTW I have an extra set of 240/248 with the cam gears does anybody know who would want them for $90. Plus Whatever the shipping cost would be to whatever zip? I took it from a 92,240sx fast back OBD1 KA.

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iitywygms
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DjPantsSpecR wrote:advancing it 2.5 degrees jsut brings the intake opening event back to stock.

there is no doubt that retarding it is going to make better power, but at the cost of high EGTs. I personally was using 2.5 degrees of retard on the intake side and 5 on the exhaust.

but i also have no regard for my motor
I used my exhaust cam on the intake side and a 232 duration exhaust cam on the exhaust side, getting 248/232

So if I redrill the intake cam gear for 2.5 degree advance it will be closer to stock position, but I will loose some power? Then why would I want to redrill the cam and do that? Do the egt go up that much? Also, I read somewhere that I should check clearance and shim accordingly. I did not do this, and I have not seen anyone mention it in this thread. Is it safe to say that doing this is normally not necessary?

Modified by iitywygms at 5:41 PM 11/22/2007

Modified by iitywygms at 5:30 PM 11/26/2007

Modified by iitywygms at 7:22 PM 11/26/2007
Modified by iitywygms at 7:23 PM 11/26/2007

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240_fun
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SOOOthis is all soo confusingive got a s13 KA240int/248extplus i got another exhaust from a junker so thats a 248ext right?what kind of swap could i do with what ive got?does anyone want a 248ext to trade for a 232int maybe?

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d3vilskid
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wow its been awhile sincei ve been in this thread, anyways bigvinnie i went back and reread one of ur comments bout retarding to make power throughout the band rite. Well I read something interesting in the UTI website saying the if you advance the cam it would give you more bottom end power(torque) and if you retard the cam it would yield you more top end power. Might have misread it so correct me if im wrong, Ill post thesite up soon.


Modified by d3vilskid at 11:37 PM 12/11/2007

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d3vilskid
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how much u just selling the cam gears for just need one or two already have an extra one

Nisxsz
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d3vilskid wrote:how much u just selling the cam gears for just need one or two already have an extra one
What do you need? I have 4 stock cam gears, used but in good cond.

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d3vilskid
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just a the gears already have two 232s n two 248 and one 240

Nisxsz
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I'm in Atlanta GA 30341. If you're in GA i can meet up with you somewhere. Pair for $15. [email protected]

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d3vilskid
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nah not from atl, but i am going back down to alabama for the holidays if u wanna meet up than, if not how much to send to hampton, va

Nisxsz
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Yea, i dont ship. too much hassle. Sorry.

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iitywygms
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d3vilskid wrote:wow its been awhile sincei ve been in this thread, anyways bigvinnie i went back and reread one of ur comments bout retarding to make power throughout the band rite. Well I read something interesting in the UTI website saying the if you advance the cam it would give you more bottom end power and if you retard the cam it would yield you more top end power. Might have misread it so correct me if im wrong, Ill post thesite up soon.
Post the link up if you get a chance. I have tried it without redrilling the cam and with 2.5 advance. For some reason I feel like the 4 tooth method without redrilling the cam made better power. Its hard to tell without a dyno tho.

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simmode1
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Can anybody shed some light on installing the 240/232 setup? The 4 tooth method doesn't seem to be working right here... Any special adjustment you can think of?

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240_fun
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is the 232 an intake or exhaust cam?r u doing it on a s13?if its a 240int/232exh the cams do not need to be rotated if its a 240int/232int the 232 cam should be rotated clockwise 4 teeththe #1 lobes should be facing away from e/o someone plz back me up on thatand always turn the crank a full 360 degrees b4 u start it up to make sure ur not gonna bend any valves

Nisxsz
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240/232? what?

The swap is 248/232. That's intake/exhaust.Set #1 cyl to TDC and all that good stuff. Pin on the notch second from the left - crank pulley, 1st cyl lobes facing outwards on cams, blah blah right.

If you have a s13 do this:Your stock cams are 240/248. So take the 248, put it on intake side. Get a 232 exh. from s14(must be exhaust!) put it on your exhaust side. You will notice when you put your 248 exh on your intake side that it will automatically sit 4 teeth CCW, or 3 links. You won't need to worry about rotating since it "sits" in there 1st lobes facing outward, already 4t CCW.

if you have a s14 do this:Your stock cams are 232/232. So take out your intake cam, put in an exhaust cam from a s13, 248exh, for your intake.

***************

Note* DO NOT ROTATE CRANKSHAFT WITH YOUR CAMS UNSECURED, YOU WILL MESS UP YOUR TIMING!!!!*

I did that ^ and had to take off the front cover and rotated it until everything was back to 1st cyl TDC (service manual ftw?). So DONT DO IT (i was not thinking, at all).

After you have everything in and ready, rotate the crankshaft and make sure it spins freely (you can take out sparkplugs if you want, if not then you will feel the compression however its still not difficult to turn).

I have a s13 and that's what i did ^. I hope this helps a bit.

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d3vilskid
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http://www.circletrack.com/tec....html

ok here is the site sorry it took me awhile kinda forgot.

talks about all the good stuff on cams, so itsa good site andyou will read the stuff about advancing on the first page first paragragh and the third page.

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simmode1
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Nisxsz wrote:240/232? what?

The swap is 248/232. That's intake/exhaust.Set #1 cyl to TDC and all that good stuff. Pin on the notch second from the left - crank pulley, 1st cyl lobes facing outwards on cams, blah blah right.

If you have a s13 do this:Your stock cams are 240/248. So take the 248, put it on intake side. Get a 232 exh. from s14(must be exhaust!) put it on your exhaust side. You will notice when you put your 248 exh on your intake side that it will automatically sit 4 teeth CCW, or 3 links. You won't need to worry about rotating since it "sits" in there 1st lobes facing outward, already 4t CCW.

if you have a s14 do this:Your stock cams are 232/232. So take out your intake cam, put in an exhaust cam from a s13, 248exh, for your intake.

***************

Note* DO NOT ROTATE CRANKSHAFT WITH YOUR CAMS UNSECURED, YOU WILL MESS UP YOUR TIMING!!!!*

I did that ^ and had to take off the front cover and rotated it until everything was back to 1st cyl TDC (service manual ftw?). So DONT DO IT (i was not thinking, at all).

After you have everything in and ready, rotate the crankshaft and make sure it spins freely (you can take out sparkplugs if you want, if not then you will feel the compression however its still not difficult to turn).

I have a s13 and that's what i did ^. I hope this helps a bit.
LOL! I love how this guy is dropping all this knowledge about something I didn't even ask about! Ha!

When I asked for info on the 240/232 swap, I didn't typo. This thread started out covering more than just the 248/232 swap. I already have that in my car. The 240/232 inquiry was for my friend's auto s13. It is a little different than the 248/232 swap. Thanks for all the info but we got it figured out and it works great! He says you can feel 'explosive' power come on at about 3700rpm all the way to about 6k w/ a slight drop off on its way to redline....

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d3vilskid
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if its a s13 it should hav the 240 as an intake already,just get a s14exhaust cam 232 n it should fit rite in no 4 teeth method and if its a s14 232 intae correct me if imwrong it should be clockwise not ccw 4 teeth

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award78
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Nisxsz wrote:240/232? what?

The swap is 248/232. That's intake/exhaust.Set #1 cyl to TDC and all that good stuff. Pin on the notch second from the left - crank pulley, 1st cyl lobes facing outwards on cams, blah blah right.

If you have a s13 do this:Your stock cams are 240/248. So take the 248, put it on intake side. Get a 232 exh. from s14(must be exhaust!) put it on your exhaust side. You will notice when you put your 248 exh on your intake side that it will automatically sit 4 teeth CCW, or 3 links. You won't need to worry about rotating since it "sits" in there 1st lobes facing outward, already 4t CCW.

if you have a s14 do this:Your stock cams are 232/232. So take out your intake cam, put in an exhaust cam from a s13, 248exh, for your intake.

***************

Note* DO NOT ROTATE CRANKSHAFT WITH YOUR CAMS UNSECURED, YOU WILL MESS UP YOUR TIMING!!!!*

I did that ^ and had to take off the front cover and rotated it until everything was back to 1st cyl TDC (service manual ftw?). So DONT DO IT (i was not thinking, at all).

After you have everything in and ready, rotate the crankshaft and make sure it spins freely (you can take out sparkplugs if you want, if not then you will feel the compression however its still not difficult to turn).

I have a s13 and that's what i did ^. I hope this helps a bit.
So how do you set it back to 1st TDC? I installed a 248 on my intake and think I may have slipped a tooth on the main lower cam sprocket. It's idling like ****. Idling is oscillating and almost stalls sometimes.

Bigvinnie
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I wish I could do this to this thread right now!!!

Nisxsz
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check the timing on your distributor.

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alkemyst
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Bigvinnie wrote: I wish I could do this to this thread right now!!!
?

Obviously not everyone has done all the things you have and take for granted now. How about just unsubscribing and ignoring this.

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gingerbredman
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jeez laweez this threads long, so from what ive heard the cams from ka24de's in the 240 and altima are interchangeable? the newer 240's are like extinct around here. so do the altima cams include a 232? i just pulled a 248 exh. cam today and was planning on installing it but i reckon 248/232 is better for a ka-t setup. soo...anybody want a 248?

verge513
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i dont believe the altima cams will work..bc of the position of the distributor. on the altima its mounted on the rear of the engine and the distributor connects at the rear of the exhaust cam..about the intake cam im not sure...maybe somthing to look into.

p0onsta
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Today I went ahead and did the cam swap, using a 248 exhaust cam in the intake, and the 232 exhaust cam in the exhaust. I have an S14 motor with the slightly higher compression. The 248 exhaust cam was rotated 4 teeth CCW and redrilled for an additional 2.5* retard. I couldn't help but notice that I seem to be losing power throughout the powerband when compared to my 232/232. Has there been anybody else who's tried this? Please let me know. I'm resetting the ECU as we speak and hopefully this would help.

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alkemyst
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p0onsta wrote:Today I went ahead and did the cam swap, using a 248 exhaust cam in the intake, and the 232 exhaust cam in the exhaust. I have an S14 motor with the slightly higher compression. The 248 exhaust cam was rotated 4 teeth CCW and redrilled for an additional 2.5* retard. I couldn't help but notice that I seem to be losing power throughout the powerband when compared to my 232/232. Has there been anybody else who's tried this? Please let me know. I'm resetting the ECU as we speak and hopefully this would help.
I wouldn't have touched the exhaust cam...also are you absolutely positive you got a 248 intake...many are selling other cams as that.

You could have also messed up on the sprocket.

p0onsta
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I have an S14, so 232/232.

I didn't touch the exhaust cam. I took a S13 248 exhaust cam and installed it in the intake. I'm positive that I have the proper cam, since it came out of my own S13 engine. I'm sure I did the gear properly also.

So has anybody tried this setup? I'll report on my findings after I reset my ECU.

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alkemyst
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p0onsta wrote:I have an S14, so 232/232.

I didn't touch the exhaust cam. I took a S13 248 exhaust cam and installed it in the intake. I'm positive that I have the proper cam, since it came out of my own S13 engine. I'm sure I did the gear properly also.

So has anybody tried this setup? I'll report on my findings after I reset my ECU.
I suggest going back to the first page in this thread. The 248/232 setup is probably the most popular.

Do you have an automatic?

p0onsta
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I have a 5 speed. In the later pages of this thread, it was stated that 240/232 makes the best power (most area under the curve). Further on, it was "discovered" that retarding the timing will actually net more power. I do not have an Air/Fuel Controller, so I went for the milder 2.5 retard on intake, 0 on exhaust. This will leave me with the proper overlap for power. According to BigVinnie's post, this would be proper.

I've read through all 9 pages, but got confused since there was no definitive conclusion as to what the best setup is with a set of S13 cams and a set of S14 cams. I guess I can ride around in this one for a while and swap over to 240/232 to see what the difference is when I have time.

If there are any others out there who've tried 248(-2.5)/232, please let me know. I was reading the article that d3vilskid linked to regarding advancing/retarding the cam timings, and it said that retarding the timing will net higher top end, trading off the low end. Prior to this cam swap, I've never really pushed the engine past 5k much. So for any of you who's tried, does 248(-2.5)/232 sacrifice low end for some top end gains? From what I've read, 248(+2.5)/232 will put the timing closer to stock and not have the dips in power at ~3k, but 248(-2.5)/232 will net even more power. I'm looking to DD and autoX this car, which means I'll be in 2nd gear most of the time, and not too high up in the rev range when driving around town.

p0onsta
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Sorry, double post. but after driving the new setup for 2 days, I've come to the conclusion that 248(-2.5)/232 is indeed slower all over the place, until it goes past 5k. None of the dips in power that were noticed by others in 248/232 were there, but the nicer top end was. I really miss my bottom end though, so next I will try 248(+2.5)/232 and hopefully it will do what 240/232 does, only better: power all over the rev range.

Has there been any others who've tried this? Is anybody reading this thread anymore? DJPantsSpecR? BigVinnie?
Modified by p0onsta at 8:17 PM 3/19/2008


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