my comments on 248/240 s13 cam swap

Post by **DjPantsSpecR** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:12 pm

well, no, a large plenum is good for a turbo vehicle. I believe xcessive has choosen a 3.2 liter plenum, which is a little over 1.5 times the displacement. I think they've made a decent choice. the AMS manifold looks to be a similar if not larger size

2 times the volume for a five liter plenum is kinda crazy, 3 and a half or less is nice, but it really depnds on the app. On low boost sometimes an n/a design is better, it really depends.

but this works because on a large plenum that is being pressurized, each draw on a cylinder can only grab so much air while air is coming in. The air actually gains additional density and can produce more power. this is at the trade off of response. but you wouldnt miss it anyways if youre using a huge turbo, which would make use of a huge plenum. a general rule, not entirely true, but you know what im saying.

Post by **spank044** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:42 pm

I grasp the concept, but I'm going to start a new thread and get some more attention to the matter. Check it out if you get a chance. Its call "Cutsom Intake Manifolds, Whose got em and Who made their own. Tell us here."

Modified by spank044 at 3:18 PM 3/1/2007

Post by **blinker_fluid** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:15 pm

bought a set of crower 264/264 cams. do you think 264/248 would be good for a auto w/ headers.

Post by **DjPantsSpecR** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:03 pm

once again i don't.

the crower 264s are seriously bad ***, jsut use both.

or if you want you can send me one of them, in that case try 264/248, which according to crower is actualyl 264/256

Post by **booboo** » Wed May 02, 2007 10:49 am

I have a 1991 240sx ke24de so what cams do i need and how to do it

Post by **zero_gripS13** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:04 pm

my cam gears will be drilled tonight and i will probably throw em in after tuesday (drift practice tuesday raher not have any bad luck and not be able to run)

im gona try 240(-7.5)/248(-5) .."tre " setup..

unless u have a better suggestion..

try to prevent torque and power drop off till after 6300 or so..while maintaing good responce and midrange.

or could u do me a favor and epxlian the effect on the powerband by advanceing/retarding intake/exhaust cams..

thanks

Post by **neverlift** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:54 pm

I'm no djpannies but my understanding is you want to get more valve overlap and broaden the powerband and/or move said powerband around to desired rpm range.... do some google searches and you can find out plenty...

I do recomend waiting for djpants or another more cam inclined member to chime in.

Post by **zero_gripS13** » Thu May 03, 2007 7:49 pm

ive read that

retarding intake aand exhaust with shift powerband to higher rpms and advance will shift power to low/mid.

240(-7.5)/248(-5) retards both cams should shift power band up.

which seems to be correct.

now i have a dyno i seen on FA that shows a 12hp gain with 248/232 over stock 232/232 cams. this is just with rotated gear 4 teeth.

http://forums2.nicoclub.com/sh...83449

i wonder if it be better just to throw them in and mess with timing on them..

thoughts?

Post by **93HATCH240** » Fri May 04, 2007 12:54 am

All this cam talk has gotten me a lil confused. I have a 95 ka in my 93 s13. I still have the cams from the 93. From what Ive read the s14 ka has 232 I/ 232 E? Correct? and the s13 has 240 I/ 248 E? My currents mods are listed i my sig. I was planning on going with s13 xhaust 248 as an intake cam and leaving the xhaust cam alone since its already 232 xhaust. This would mean 248 I/232 E? I like to rev it to 7000 but havent since i put the 95 ka in since it redlines at 6500. Will swapping the cams allow me to rev higher or do you have and other suggestions?
Modified by 93HATCH240 at 8:17 AM 5/4/2007

Post by **zero_gripS13** » Fri May 04, 2007 1:02 pm

vhalaa

well my friend got em back to me ..

the botem 2 are not usable, but i dont even really need em, and i forgot to tell him not to drill em so consider it weight reduction :P..

i did have to take a dremal and extend the outside of each hole since he drilled em a lil inward.. do u think thats baD?? should i just get new ones and try again??

can wiggle left and right when installed and not bolted up but even the stock one does that so that should be a problem.. im excited if i dont have to get new ones im putting em in wednesday or thursday and see what happends

Post by **DjPantsSpecR** » Fri May 04, 2007 5:01 pm

the wiggling is a bit of a problem. at this kind of level precision is necessary. a slight wiggle there could be 2 or 3 degrees at the cam. Now, witht hat said, i never worried about that. the only bad thing that could happen is inconsistent results, maybe soemtimes when you retard 5 degrees it actually retards like 2 degrees or something...

as for the drifter, try the "tre set up" or my original 248/248 set up. i LOVED the midrange torque on there, and coupled with my intake manifold it was a ****ing screamer. Just start messing around and driving, i wish i had been able to try more before i lost her.... but its summer again, so i'll be back out.

so try those two combos, let me know, either way you're gonna love em both. FREE HORSEPOWER!

Post by **zero_gripS13** » Sat May 05, 2007 2:57 am

ill be putting em on after tusday ill let u know if i like the tre setup.. i might dyno it with the tre setp and compare it to my stock dyno..

Post by **neverlift** » Sat May 05, 2007 3:48 am

do IT DO it

we need some dynos of this stuff!

Post by **93HATCH240** » Sat May 05, 2007 1:23 pm

93HATCH240 wrote:All this cam talk has gotten me a lil confused. I have a 95 ka in my 93 s13. I still have the cams from the 93. From what Ive read the s14 ka has 232 I/ 232 E? Correct? and the s13 has 240 I/ 248 E? My currents mods are listed i my sig. I was planning on going with s13 xhaust 248 as an intake cam and leaving the xhaust cam alone since its already 232 xhaust. This would mean 248 I/232 E? I like to rev it to 7000 but havent since i put the 95 ka in since it redlines at 6500. Will swapping the cams allow me to rev higher or do you have and other suggestions?

Modified by 93HATCH240 at 8:17 AM 5/4/2007

Post by **DjPantsSpecR** » Sun May 06, 2007 5:23 pm

are you saying physically your motor wont rev past 6500? How much of the 95 motor did you put in? like the tranny, distributor, and ecu? thats the problem then....

but if you have a 7400rpm jwt ecu, and youre saying the motor falls on it face after 6500, youre correct.

Alot can be found with many cam swaps, but it all depends on what kinda power bands youre lookin at once you get into cam gears. But if youre reving that high i would recommend saving up 315 bucks to get Crower V2s.

Or if youre the opposite of ballin, like me, you'd use 248s, and gears to emulate the exhaust closing and intake opening events. its on you to figure out how to do that.

Post by **93HATCH240** » Tue May 08, 2007 4:09 am

I used the 95 motor with my 93 intake and exhaust mani. dist. 91 tranny. I'm only saying it goes to 6500 because the s14 i took it out of the rev limit on the dash was 6500 so I'm hesitant to bring it above that. I am the complete opposite of ballin so I'd rather not spend the money. I Dont have to shift it at 7400 with my new motor thats where my old ka was going to. hell i was even able to get it to 8000 without blowing it on stock valvetrain with over 200k on it. I just wanted your advice on cams that have a nice pull from midrange to redline. I was thinking of 248 I and 232 E because from what i have read that produces the power range im looking for on an s14 motor. Just wanted to double check
Modified by 93HATCH240 at 3:07 PM 5/8/2007

Post by **turbo_dreams** » Tue May 08, 2007 4:04 pm

just bookmarking this thread to my recent topics so i wont have to look for it when im in school n time's limited, great info

Post by **DjPantsSpecR** » Tue May 08, 2007 5:58 pm

well i ring my 95 motor in my s13 out to 7k everyday, many many times a day. Trust me you'll be jsut fine.

as for making useful power past 1st gear, tis probably best to shift at 6500....

as for a good midrange cam set up, i suggest my 248/248 as detailed in the DIY adjustable cam gears. Or 240/232. I have 240/232 in my automatic and i love it.

Im positive that 248/232 with an adjustable cam gear could be made to make even more power than than using jsut the four teeth method. I jsut havent been able to get to it yet...

so its all trial and error, since we dont have funds to dyno all of our cam and gear swaps.

Post by **redpotatoes** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:03 am

I will be try the 248/232 (4 teeth cc) in about two weeks. I currently have the 248/248 (4 teeth cc) on my S14. I hope to see a difference.

Post by **93HATCH240** » Wed May 09, 2007 8:36 am

DjPantsSpecR wrote:well i ring my 95 motor in my s13 out to 7k everyday, many many times a day. Trust me you'll be jsut fine.

as for making useful power past 1st gear, tis probably best to shift at 6500....

as for a good midrange cam set up, i suggest my 248/248 as detailed in the DIY adjustable cam gears. Or 240/232. I have 240/232 in my automatic and i love it.

Im positive that 248/232 with an adjustable cam gear could be made to make even more power than than using jsut the four teeth method. I jsut havent been able to get to it yet...

so its all trial and error, since we dont have funds to dyno all of our cam and gear swaps.

I'm trying to stay away from adjustabel cam gears as I dont know much about them. In the future I would like to mess around with them but for now i just wanna drop in cams and go from there. I have a manual tranny so i was thinking 248/232.

Post by **Bigvinnie** » Thu May 10, 2007 6:58 am

zero_gripS13 wrote:
can wiggle left and right when installed and not bolted up but even the stock one does that so that should be a problem.. im excited if i dont have to get new ones im putting em in wednesday or thursday and see what happends

Overall the machining looks O.K but then again you can't tell until the holes are measured out. If you claim they wiggle that can be really bad. It can cause shifting within any amount of degrees.

Why were the holes off center or kilter and then a dremel used? Did you use a template on a drill press to mark it out right????

Post by **Bigvinnie** » Thu May 10, 2007 7:16 am

DjPantsSpecR wrote:well, no, a large plenum is good for a turbo vehicle. I believe xcessive has choosen a 3.2 liter plenum, which is a little over 1.5 times the displacement. I think they've made a decent choice. the AMS manifold looks to be a similar if not larger size

2 times the volume for a five liter plenum is kinda crazy, 3 and a half or less is nice, but it really depnds on the app. On low boost sometimes an n/a design is better, it really depends.

but this works because on a large plenum that is being pressurized, each draw on a cylinder can only grab so much air while air is coming in. The air actually gains additional density and can produce more power. this is at the trade off of response. but you wouldnt miss it anyways if youre using a huge turbo, which would make use of a huge plenum. a general rule, not entirely true, but you know what im saying.

All I know is that for natural aspiration you want plenum size to be slightly smaller to it's displacement (or the size of it) to increase the velocity through the runners and into the chamber. Runner length also determines the power of the velocity within the rev range. All this is determined through several calculations that deal with the engines cc's. Long runner plenums such as the skunk 2 are good for high RPM use only on honda applications with a high Compression ratio with increased VE, and HP output, and they don't work well on stock engines. My friend Rollyn has researched this as he is rebuilding his H22 with eagle rods, and 11:1 pistons, and has purchased the skunk 2 manifold. While shorter runners can have better use of a full RPM Range, it does limit a High Peak HP spkike, which is what a long runner skunk 2 manifold makes. Although if the runners are to short and the plenum is to small it can severely cut down on the high end performance.The problem with the KA manifold isn't necessarily that the runners are long, the problem is that they are long, and CURVED, this is better on swirl effect and cold weather conditions, as well as for smogable purposes, but it cut's down on the velocity that moves through the runners. Also noticed are restrictions to SCV's, which Nissan actually perfected in the QR25de manifold by separating the runner into bi runner bipass configuration so that the butterfly's do not effect velocity at higher RPM's.

I happen to do porting work of my own as well as my own plenum designs. Although I use a MIG ARC welder, which isn't sufficient enough for the aluminum gauge metals that I need to use. Also the little dremel that could. I would get more in depth with the work I am doing, but I am giving most of the info soon enough in the forum that I moderate. So I can't spill the beans to you guy's as of yet.... Just going to have to wait.

Modified by Bigvinnie at 10:35 AM 5/10/2007

Post by **HKSdrift3r** » Thu May 10, 2007 11:02 am

For peeps with S14's... would you guys recommend just swappin in a 240/232. 248/232, or the 248/240 set up. I wont be makin the adj. cam gears, at least for a while. Which set up fo you guys like the best? Im lookin for some mid to top end power. Thnks!!

George

Post by **93HATCH240** » Mon May 14, 2007 5:19 am

Next week I'll be swapping in my 248 xhaust cam into my s14 motor. so It will be 248/232 which from reading this thread is more mid range to upper range power which is what im looking for.

Post by **Anto** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:23 am

So let me know if i've got this right.

S13 Exhaust cam as intake, 248S14 Intake cam as exhaust (assuming it's what I get), 232

248(+2.5) as the intake, rotating the cam gear 4 teeth CCW.

1st Question: How would I go about using the S14 Intake cam as the s13 Exhaust cam? I read an earlier post by tloof that stated that an S14 Intake cam installed at the exhaust would be advanced 8.75 degrees. How would I go about fixing this? Rotate the cam gear?

2nd Question: Assuming I got a s14 232 Exhaust cam, would I have to rotate anything to install it, or is it a direct bolt on, with no adjusting needed?

& assuming all this is said & done, would it be safe to run my timing 3* advanced, making it a total of 23*?

Help's greatly appreciated!

Post by **Anto** » Wed May 16, 2007 2:35 pm

Cummon. Anyone?

Post by **93HATCH240** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:11 am

bump I would like to know also

Post by **miked808** » Mon May 21, 2007 8:30 am

Just switched to 248/232 from 248/248. Much better for the Street I must say.

Post by **DjPantsSpecR** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:50 pm

alright, i didnt wanna answer this because all the information is either available in this thread, or easy to figure out.

but here goes: 248(+2.5) is an s13 exhaust cam rotated 4 teeth, and then with the addition of an adjustable cam gear to advance it 2.5 degrees. Okay? im still trying to find actual proof of where the 248 sits when rotated 4 teeth. i worked long and hard on this months ago with inconclusive results. i plan on working on it again.

But anytime you see me refering to 248 or 240, or 232 and then (+/- anything) thats using an adj timing gear. 248(0)/248(0) sucks.

okay, and youre gonna have to do your own math for your 232 exhaust as an intake cam. i did this swap on my friends car (an automatic) a lil over 4 years ago. 248/232(intake).

this should be fairly obvious to you, but if you rotate the exhaust cam 4 teeth CCW to get it to work on the intake side, you msut have to rotate an intake cam 4 teeth CW to get it to work as an exhaust cam.

i'm also not entirely sure about tloofs claim of 8.75 degrees of advance. ive found some of his math to be off, as well as my own. this is all stuff you would take care of with timing gears.

232(ex) will go in jsut fine. and i favor 240/232 over 248/232. But thats mainly because its my DD.

as far as ignition timing goes, 23 degrees should be safe assuming you're not pinging, 25 would be safe, you could pull off 30 assuming youre not pinging. BUT this really has little to do with cam timing in relation to safety, you're not chaning all that much.

now, feel free to send me some money, or cams, or cam gears.

Post by **neverlift** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:26 pm

well my man I got the de in and runnign just need to get ps lines and put tranny fluid in her. oh yeah put the lines back on for the resivior.

my comments on 248/240 s13 cam swap

Re: (DjPantsSpecR)

Re: KA24DE cam swaps (DjPantsSpecR)

Re: (DjPantsSpecR)

Re: (booboo)

Re: (zero_gripS13)

Re: (neverlift)

Re: (zero_gripS13)

Re: (93HATCH240)

Re: (DjPantsSpecR)

Re: (zero_gripS13)

Re: (93HATCH240)

Re: (DjPantsSpecR)

Re: Altima 248 deg Exh Cam (tloof)

Re: (DjPantsSpecR)

Re: (zero_gripS13)

Re: (DjPantsSpecR)

Re: (HKSdrift3r)

Re: (Anto)

Re: (93HATCH240)

Re: (DjPantsSpecR)

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