Well, never got a response from Wolf Tech so I guess they re not interested.
And Flagship One turned into a confused mess. I talked with them about getting the re-flash done for $150.00 and was on the phone setting up the process when the operator put me on hold to verify with the programmer. She came back and said the cost would be $397.00 to do this. I told her these service costs were quoted to me on my first phone call; $397.00 for opening it up and doing replacement chip work on the PCB, which according to them it should not need; or $150.00 for a re-flash. She said she would call back in a few minutes, and that was a week ago. So, I guess their word is useless, and they are out.
I guess I'll try to find a dealer with some guts to do a simple re-flash. I've been through 3 so far and each never done or had to do one, according to them.
MT Gear Position
Re: MT Gear Position
Thanks for the lead! I just sent them the info. So I'll see what they have to say.
-
VStar650CL
- Technical Expert
- Posts: 8417
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:25 pm
- Car: 2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S
Re: MT Gear Position
Dealt with those guys once, vicariously through a customer. I recall they were prompt and did what they promised.
The reason dealers have "never done that" is because it's rarely needed. The only reason to do a "blank program" on a non-blank ECM is if it's corrupt or it's a used unit with the wrong program. That doesn't come up frequently, and frankly most dealers will palm it off by making you buy a new ECM so they don't need to risk tinkering. It's really very straightforward and no different from programming an actually-blank unit, but unless they have a really good Consult guy they probably don't know that. So I suppose some reticence is forgivable. If you told them you'd sign a waiver letting them off the hook if it didn't work, you'd probably get a better answer.
-
AZhitman
- Administrator
- Posts: 71063
- Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
- Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 S13, 92 SE-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14.
- Location: Surprise, Arizona
- Contact:
Re: MT Gear Position
Yeah, I'm thinking you're getting information paralysis here. Car-part.com or ebay should have an ecu from a matching truck.
In fact, go take a pic of your ECU label and post it here. This process shouldn't be this difficult.
In fact, go take a pic of your ECU label and post it here. This process shouldn't be this difficult.
-
VStar650CL
- Technical Expert
- Posts: 8417
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:25 pm
- Car: 2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S
Re: MT Gear Position
I dunno, AZ. MT 4-bangers aren't exactly "standard fare" at the Frontier banquet. It's worth a look if he can get a pic, but even that isn't easy on a Frontie. It's squeezed in next to the electrical box.
-
AZhitman
- Administrator
- Posts: 71063
- Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
- Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 S13, 92 SE-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14.
- Location: Surprise, Arizona
- Contact:
Re: MT Gear Position
Yep, I had to pull the one from our '05.
Rare enough, but not unobtainable.
Rare enough, but not unobtainable.
-
VStar650CL
- Technical Expert
- Posts: 8417
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:25 pm
- Car: 2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S
Re: MT Gear Position
I was afraid of that, the A/T version uses the same hardware and most of the eBay JY's don't specify A/T or M/T or give a donor VIN. I only saw one on eBay that looked close (one digit off on the NEC number), that was $188 and no guarantee it already has the right firmware.
Re: MT Gear Position
SAI Electronics; seems like a good firm. I called them and they said that they could only do hardware repair, such as PCB component repair due to, say water leakage. The tech rep said that they can't do software re-flash for this model, but that they can do it for some older brands such as Ford.
The tech rep did say try a locksmith; they can get and read the software and VIN and may be able to remove the cruise control speed restriction. Hmmm, never thought of that avenue.
-
VStar650CL
- Technical Expert
- Posts: 8417
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:25 pm
- Car: 2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S
Re: MT Gear Position
Wellllll, you can always cruise to Little Rock at high RPM and I'll send you back at a lower one.
I dunno, I certainly didn't think this would be such an adventure for you.
Re: MT Gear Position
Why don't I just send it and you re-flash it and send it back; ha! Better not; don't want to cause trouble.
-
VStar650CL
- Technical Expert
- Posts: 8417
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:25 pm
- Car: 2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S
Re: MT Gear Position
It wouldn't cause trouble, but it isn't practical the way the Consult3+ is set up. I'd have to find another Frontier to patch it into, then unscrew all the security and other DTC's that would pop up in other systems.
Re: MT Gear Position
[/quote]The reason dealers have "never done that" is because it's rarely needed. The only reason to do a "blank program" on a non-blank ECM is if it's corrupt or it's a used unit with the wrong program. That doesn't come up frequently, and frankly most dealers will palm it off by making you buy a new ECM so they don't need to risk tinkering. It's really very straightforward and no different from programming an actually-blank unit, but unless they have a really good Consult guy they probably don't know that. So I suppose some reticence is forgivable. If you told them you'd sign a waiver letting them off the hook if it didn't work, you'd probably get a better answer.
[/quote]
So, I have to ask. Have you done a re-flash on the factory installed ECU in the vehicle, like what you suggested? From your earlier comments it seems that as long as the laptop is fully charged the risk of making a brick is extremely low.
Your idea of signing a waiver is a fair point, when considering the tech's viewpoint
[/quote]
So, I have to ask. Have you done a re-flash on the factory installed ECU in the vehicle, like what you suggested? From your earlier comments it seems that as long as the laptop is fully charged the risk of making a brick is extremely low.
Your idea of signing a waiver is a fair point, when considering the tech's viewpoint
-
VStar650CL
- Technical Expert
- Posts: 8417
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:25 pm
- Car: 2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S
Re: MT Gear Position
Sure, in the original vehicle. Over the years we've saved several ECM's with corrupt flash that way, as well as some used parts with wrong programs. It's only a s@%# show trying to do it off the vehicle or in a different one.
I know, I know, Nissan and all the other OE's claim flash never corrupts. That's a full-of-s@%# show and I can prove it.
I know, I know, Nissan and all the other OE's claim flash never corrupts. That's a full-of-s@%# show and I can prove it.
Re: MT Gear Position
Ok, bud, here goes. I stopped by the local Nissan dealer today ( I called them before but they don't call back), talked to the service manager, and arranged for them to re-flash the ECU next Tuesday. He did ask if this was a new ECU, I said no, but asked if you could treat it like a new ECU and just re-flash it. He said "yes" but that he had never done one himself, and will confirm this request with his tech. I hope this takes care of it.
-
VStar650CL
- Technical Expert
- Posts: 8417
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:25 pm
- Car: 2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S
Re: MT Gear Position
Like I said, it's something most places have done rarely if at all. They just have to follow the normal "new ECM" rules and it will be fine.
Re: MT Gear Position
Well, here we go
Went to the Nissan dealer today and the first problem was getting into the ECU. The diagnostic equipment had trouble getting into the ECU. But after back-dooring the ECU, as the service manager explained, they were able to get into the ECU and re-flash it. So, did it fix the problem? NOOOOOOO!
So, one thing the service manager noticed was that it appeared that the wheel speed sensors had been replaced. I could not remember off-hand if they had been done. The service manager said they did not look like Nissan parts and that may be the reason that the system is not working right, even though he said they performed a trouble code check of the system and found no codes. He said that an after-market sensor may not have a proprietary function that an OE sensor has, and something such as that may be causing the system to malfunction.
After I left, I started thinking about this and yes, the each front wheel bearing was replaced with Moog bearings that included the sensors. And also, one time several years ago the driver-side, rear sensor was replaced, with a brand name sensor because it was working on/off and causing the ABS light to turn on. After that particular rear sensor replacement the ABS light has never come back on.
So, could after-market sensors be missing something that the OEM sensors have and that the ECU looks at?
Went to the Nissan dealer today and the first problem was getting into the ECU. The diagnostic equipment had trouble getting into the ECU. But after back-dooring the ECU, as the service manager explained, they were able to get into the ECU and re-flash it. So, did it fix the problem? NOOOOOOO!
So, one thing the service manager noticed was that it appeared that the wheel speed sensors had been replaced. I could not remember off-hand if they had been done. The service manager said they did not look like Nissan parts and that may be the reason that the system is not working right, even though he said they performed a trouble code check of the system and found no codes. He said that an after-market sensor may not have a proprietary function that an OE sensor has, and something such as that may be causing the system to malfunction.
After I left, I started thinking about this and yes, the each front wheel bearing was replaced with Moog bearings that included the sensors. And also, one time several years ago the driver-side, rear sensor was replaced, with a brand name sensor because it was working on/off and causing the ABS light to turn on. After that particular rear sensor replacement the ABS light has never come back on.
So, could after-market sensors be missing something that the OEM sensors have and that the ECU looks at?
-
VStar650CL
- Technical Expert
- Posts: 8417
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:25 pm
- Car: 2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S
Re: MT Gear Position
I don't see how. Nissan/Bosch ABS's are as fussy as they come, even a single missing pulse will trigger an instantaneous sensor code. The sensors themselves have no smartwork, they're dumb inductives with no special characteristics. The speed signal to the ECM does come from the ABS, though, so I suppose it's possible the ABS has tinkered firmware and not the ECM.
Re: MT Gear Position
So now what? Nissan sensors are quite expensive, and yes, they are nothing but inductive pick-ups generating an electrical pulse as the tone ring passes by it.
-
VStar650CL
- Technical Expert
- Posts: 8417
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:25 pm
- Car: 2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S
Re: MT Gear Position
Like I said, I don't think it's possible for the sensors to be responsible. If they were missing teeth above a certain speed then they'd be doing it in 4th gear too, and you'd be getting Rockefeller Center on the dashboard. The thing about the M/T that's different from A/T is the lack of a dedicated VSS sensor, the ECM and cluster get all their speed data from the ABS. The ABS in turn gets engine speed back from the ECM, so it could easily make the same calculation to determine whether the truck is in 5th. So maybe the "secret governor program" is inside the ABS and not the ECM.
Re: MT Gear Position
Does the ABS get programmed like the ECU? Surely the ABS was not removed and sent somewhere.
Re: MT Gear Position
Also, the dealer mentioned this yesterday. The tech found several instances in what must be a dealer-only, service database, that mentioned wheel speed sensors and aftermarket products. Is this something that you can get more specific details?
-
VStar650CL
- Technical Expert
- Posts: 8417
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:25 pm
- Car: 2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S
-
VStar650CL
- Technical Expert
- Posts: 8417
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:25 pm
- Car: 2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S
Re: MT Gear Position
I can get the TechLine database, that's probably where they looked. But knowing how these things are programmed, I see zero ways that wheel sensors could cause your issue without also throwing codes.
Re: MT Gear Position
On a whim I looked and found one of the old original front wheel sensors that I removed and kept from the OEM wheel bearings when I replaced them several years ago. I put it on the front wheel bearing and a new after-market sensor, that I had bought from around the same time frame, on the other wheel bearing. Tested it out and still didn't fix it.
-
VStar650CL
- Technical Expert
- Posts: 8417
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:25 pm
- Car: 2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S
Re: MT Gear Position
Zero is zero. Since a calculation is needed just to figure out that the truck is in 5th, and since it will cruise past 65 in 4th, I feel perfectly safe in saying the issue has to be firmware. There's no way any sort of hardware failure could cause those symptoms. The only question is, which firmware is doing it?
Re: MT Gear Position
How many firmwares are there to choose from? And how do I narrow down which is not operating correctly?
-
VStar650CL
- Technical Expert
- Posts: 8417
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:25 pm
- Car: 2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
2004 Nissan Altima 2.5 S
Re: MT Gear Position
The only two that have the information to make the 5th gear calculation are the ECM and ABS. The Combination Meter also, but those have to be "hard" reprogrammed (it can't be done by CANbus and normal means). So I think the ABS is the only likely culprit. If you can intercept the data interchange with a streaming scanner or CAN sniffer and then compare what happens in 5th gear vs 4th, you might be able to see exactly what is occurring.
Find Your Forum!