BWheetley wrote:That's interesting. I will have to check the mileage with fuelly.com and see if I'm actually getting what the car says. If not, Infiniti really needs to release a software update that would correct that. I really enjoy driving it, and am very happy with my decision.

That'd be nice but I wouldn't count on an update to fix it, because Infiniti probably doesn't see it as a flaw. That much error is common with most other manufacturers as well (for example, see <http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/you ... bbing.html>).

But it certainly is a nice car IMO.

Hey guys, and welcome BWheetley... Haven't been on in a while, but enjoyed checking back in.

All is well in M Hybrid land. The gripes are interesting to read, because we all agree...and on a car at this price point, some of these little things are just out-dated, and should have been improved in the 2012 models. Still, I really can't get over how much I'm loving this car, all around, and mostly for the drive and fuel economy. After owning the car for some time now, and really driving it (well over 10,000 miles now, I believe), it just blows me away. First, I've stopped really focusing on fuel economy and I just drive it now, like any other car. I find when I'm not focusing on the EV gauge or battery, etc...the car actually does what it's supposed to do...perhaps better, but certainly not worse. I believe this is the case because when they engineer the car, they're testing under normal driving, and not someone trying to squeeze out every last bit of battery in EV mode driving. The car does what it's supposed to do...and basically, in all of my driving...I find the results are really just the same, whether I'm trying to get better MPGs or just enjoying driving the car. Now, if I really milk my driving, I probably can get an MPG or two, but I'm not really into that, because then I don't enjoy driving as much...also, I didn't drive my old cars that way, so why try to "trick" this car. It is what it is and it consistently gets incredible MPG for a car of this size and power. Also note, this also concludes my belief that the Standard mode is still the best option for this car...and not ECO. However, I have been putting the car into Sport mode every few drives, and I'm telling you, after driving in ECO or Standard for so long, Sport is just amazing...just amazing. I love it. I haven't driven a full tank on it, so don't know how much gas it would consume, but man, it is just a thrill ride, unlike anything else I've ever owned or driven.

For the record, on average, I'm getting 25 city / 27 highway...and that's rounding down. I've got all my numbers on fuelly.com at: http://www.fuelly.com/driver/evanmagic/m35 And, these are real numbers and not from the computer screen in the car. My car reads 2 MPG higher than the real numbers, every time, plain and simple. If I get a trip that's 32 on the highway, I know for sure it's a 30 for real. Typically on a full highway drive, I get 30 on the car computer...so 28 in reality. Mix with some city driving, on a long road trip, I get about 27.5. All this being said, and while I've been disappointed with these numbers based on the EPA's ratings of 27/32 with 29 combined...really, I'm at peace with what I'm seeing. Bottom line, 25/27 is very impressive for this car, real numbers, in my conditions, I can't complain. Also note, in the past couple of weeks, I've rented two cars traveling...a VW CC and a Toyota Camry (both 2013 models). The CC was a turbo...and I'm telling you, I felt like the car was CRAWLING when kicked compared to the M. Not totally surprised, but I did sort of forget how "normal" cars drove. Also, the CC is rated at 22/31...with a 25 combined... I drove combined and got 22 actual numbers. Now, compare this to my HUGE, POWERFUL M...getting 25/27 or higher real numbers...wow...and our M's are monsters compared to these cars. I won't even mention the Camry, because (sadly) it just doesn't compare to anything I've mentioned, but the computer is giving me readouts around 30-34 mpg... I haven't filled it and won't, but I'm sure those numbers are high. Point is, our monster M's are getting numbers compared to much smaller and less powerful cars, if not better.

Side note...saw a four-door Tesla on the road for the first time yesterday. VERY impressive design... The side view actually looks similar to the M, with some swooping features, but the back-end and door-handles really tie it together and make it look expensive and sharp (which it is). Glad I saw it, very cool...but sadly, to make it a practical car, it becomes way over-priced. The reviews also show, the car isn't ready for prime-time, unlike a "Nissan/Infiniti" automobile. Tesla is fighting those reviews, but how many can you fight... After a while, a duck is a duck. We'll see in the world of EV. Still waiting on the Infiniti LE, but apparently it did not show up at the recent Chicago Auto Show...and that's a pretty big show...ugh.

Baxter13 wrote:That'd be nice but I wouldn't count on an update to fix it, because Infiniti probably doesn't see it as a flaw. That much error is common with most other manufacturers as well (for example, see <http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/you ... bbing.html>).

But it certainly is a nice car IMO.

Definitely a nice car. I love it and will always get better mileage than my Explorer did. Though I think with manufacturers being accused of overstating MPGs such as with Ford with the Fusion Hybrid and Hyundai admitting it with the Elantra, it seems they would want to be proactive for these type of things and ensure proper MPGs are being reported... especially in hybrids.

Regardless I do love driving it. lolz

I've come back to provide my MPG update using Fuelly. You guys are right about the fuel economy gauge. It's a little optimistic. It shows approx 33 MPG yet Fuelly shows I'm getting about 28.

How's everyone doing?

So.... my gas mileage has never really improved, though I still love the car...and now thinking I may keep it after the lease (since Infiniti apparently dropped any current plans to build a true EV). I've got about 16,000 miles...no full tank has ever produced above 28 mpg including all hwy driving. Most city drives average 24-25 mpg...never broke 26 mpg with city driving for a full take. So, can't complain...though I seem to always be complaining. Now, however, the heat has returned and I'm back to 100+ degrees during drive time, and my last tank was 22 mpg...which is the worst I've had since day one. So, I'm not convinced, as the heat has come back around, these high temperatures just kill the batteries...whether it's the heat or the A/C increase, my MPG goes down in the desert heat.

Final note, still love the long EV drives...even in the heat...such a great feeling and glad I'm not constantly polluting the air. Glad I'm on the right side of history, but sadly, the automotive industry is just dragging...and dragging...and dragging their feet. Meanwhile, Tesla will soon be the biggest player in automotive. They'll own all the technology that no one else wants to invest in to develop (already licensing it) and they'll own all the EV "fill up" stations... Incredible that no other car company is trying to compete with this...

Anyway...post some updates...

Hi Evan,

Your post was very apropos (esp. re Tesla), as I haven't posted in a while either. I was fortunate enough to be well positioned in TSLA options prior to their May 8 Earnings Report (ER), and when their ER blew the roof off and the stock price went up 2X-3X, I made enough money to completely pay for a loaded Tesla Model S Performance. So I sold my M35h 3 weeks ago and picked up my Red Tesla P85 yesterday.

My overall average on the M35h after 30,444 miles and 21 months was 28.24 MPG, pretty-great for a large luxury-performance sedan of this caliber.

The Tesla Model S P85 however is in another universe entirely. Really just astonishingly, holy-sh*t fast, though frankly not as cushy or luxurious interior- and feature-wise as the Infiniti or MB, Audi, BMW, etc. But the Tesla total package makes anything else feel like a Flintstone's car in comparison. And it completely resolves my main complaint w/ the Infiniti, that being the lazy transmission performance. I'm often engaged in low-speed stop & go traffic on Atlanta interstates; being able to switch lanes immediately is crucial, and waiting for any multi-speed transmission to give me the right gear is an interminable and dangerous wait-time (I've had this problem w/ every car, but the Infiniti is worst than most, as it optimizes for maximum MPG efficiency). The Tesla is essentially in first-gear all the time, so now the main problem becomes not running into the vehicle in front & hoping the car behind doesn't rear-end you.

Do NOT ever drive a Tesla unless you're prepared to shell out the wampum necessary to buy one immediately. It's really that good. I do miss the adaptive cruise control, blind-spot warning, ventilated seats, and other Infiniti features, but you immediately forget all that when driving the Tesla.

Tesla is the car of the future, and if Infiniti and the other manufacturers don't step up their game significantly, they're all going to be just a footnote in history like the horse as the primary means of transport in the early 1900's.

Posting a pic of my new car here, and apologies for possibly taking this thread a bit off-topic.

!! (!!!!!!!)

Congrats on the car!!

One disagreement: the Infiniti is plenty fast enough to switch lanes in any traffic situation. Heck, a corolla is plenty fast enough in that traffic. Merging is about people allowing you the space, if only for the purpose of avoiding an accident.

Wow, Baxter, great to hear from you! And yes, congrats on the new car!

So...I was kicking myself over and over for not getting in on Tesla stock early enough...can't believe I just wasn't thinking...especially when I follow all this so closely. Again, Tesla is taking the auto industry by storm...and Elon Musk is just a powerhouse of talent...very inspiring...not letting the "BS" get him down...amazing.

So...my next thought is that I'll either way till Tesla comes out with their mid-priced sedan (apparently in a few years or less I'm sure you've read)...or I'll pick up a used Model S in time. I could almost justify the payment for it today...however, as you mentioned, without the true "luxury"...it's a big price to pay for an all electric rocket... I was a bit disappointed when I saw the interior... Totally stunning and unique on the outside...it's just that interior...ugh. But, the real owners love them, and that's great...very excited about the future!

Note, I too understand about the lazy transmission performance of the Infiniti at times. Just experienced it over the weekend...trying to jam into traffic and kick it in...only to sit there while the car tried to get me out of EV and into gas...which almost got me hit...

Looking forward to test driving a Tesla...but I haven't for the right reason...again as you mention...I'm afraid I'll fall in love... However, I'd look forward to your updates...and how much you love the car as you go along. For me, I'll have the M Hybrid for a year in August...and so far, the "love" of it has not faded...still enjoy getting it washed, etc...and the "opportunity" to drive it. I'm guessing, I'll start getting an itch for something new in a year or so...but so far so good.

Final note tonight... Did see a Fisker Karma at the local sandwich shop over the weekend... I was going to talk to the guy who got out, but he looked more pompous than the Queen, so I didn't bother... Plus, I think they're done with it, right, no more? And, it's really just a super fancy Chevy Volt...not a true electric... But, the styling is just awesome to say the least. Meanwhile, you can pick 'em up for about half-price on eBay!

Keep us posted!

Fisker is overpriced even at half-price; as you said, it's a beautified Volt. Gorgeous exterior, cramped interior w/ little storage space, mediocre performance, etc. Just a poorly planned product overall. They're done.

M35h is still the best hybrid IMO, but not much market for a performance luxury hybrid it seems. I sold mine to CarMax for $35K, about $3K less than what I owed, so I was initially disappointed at that. But they listed it on their lot for just $39K, and then dropped it to $38K the next week, so I guess they actually treated me pretty fair compared to what they're trying to sell it for.

The Tesla interior grows on you pretty quickly; I'd call it high-quality, but minimalist. The Infiniti is like an old-style Gentlemen's Club, dark & wood-grained, while the Tesla is bright & open. It has a more airy feel than the Infiniti, and the car seems lighter and smaller, even though it's significantly larger and heavier. The instant torque and super-low center-of-gravity makes it more nimble, and it's much more comfortable to zip thru traffic than the M35h. The rear camera stays on all the time and fully-covers both blind spots, so it's actually better than the Infiniti BSW, which doesn't work below 20 mph and isn't trustworthy all the time even at higher speeds. Plus a little nudge with the Tesla's right pedal removes anyone from your blind spot immediately . The amount of storage space is incredible, the small trunk and lack of fold-down rear seats was a bit of a bummer on the Infiniti.

The Tesla Internet radio is great, I'm not even going to bother with an XM subscription anymore, and the iPhone app shows you where your car is all the time and lets you cool it down w/ AC before you get in.

Tesla started with a clean sheet in every regard and it really shows. I'll still keep my other car for the couple times a year when I need to drive more than 250 miles in a day, but when the Super Charger network is fully built-out by the end of next year, even that won't be an issue. The Tesla Gen III car in 3-4 years will crush the mid-range competition if the other car manufacturers don't get something comparable on their drawing boards right now.

Ignoring the initial cost of the Tesla (which is hard to ignore), the nicest thing is being able to accelerate outrageously fast all the time with no "fuel" penalty. Awesome speed at 1/4 the cost is pretty compelling…

Just FYI, here's a link I made in another forum. If you have the means or interest, you should simply buy a Tesla Model S. I'll stand by that as a previous Infiniti M35h owner. Love the Infiniti M35h, but even-more-love/lust for the Tesla Model S…

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthre ... post427820

Awesome, thanks for sending over.

Yes, my brother says the same thing...don't think about it, just buy it, you won't be sorry.

So, I bought some stock...(already wish I bought more as it's moved so quickly) ...I figure if it goes up enough to put down a good chunk of change...I'll get the S...

Still got two years on the M-hybrid. Still love the feel of the car, the luxury of it. Averaging 24-25 mpg. Not great, but not terrible...if I were getting closer to 30, I'd be more happy...and not thinking so much about EVs. Still, I drive other cars (rentals, loaners, friend's) from time to time, and nothing beats getting back into the M. Though, I haven't driven the Tesla...and have been putting it off...again, as I'm afraid I'll truly fall in love.

So, we'll see...let the stock hit 300...get in an S...let my lease get close and switch out the M for a JX (or Q whatever it is)...and all will be good.

Another thought was to get into the new Model X...the SUV... Just not sure I could have an M with no trunk, and an SUV that couldn't take me from LA to Vegas in one charge. Need the SUV for the long drives... Hmmmm....

The long range travel is the only real drawback to the Model S right now, it sucks that I can't easily drive it down to Florida to show my Dad. But that will be solved by the full roll-out of Tesla's nationwide Supercharger network by the end of 2014 (covering 80% of the US) and 2015 (covering 98%). You've got it much better off on the west coast than the rest of the US, as you have the most Superchargers already installed. In your example of LA to Vegas, there's a Supercharger located midway in Barstow where you can get a full charge in a half-hour for free. So you've really got no excuse not to get the Model X!

I also suspect the stock price will be way above $300 before the Model X is even released.

Funnny.... Here in Vegas now...drove up here on Monday...stopped in Barstow for gas! Perhaps not next time! Fingers crossed on the stock!

Evan,

Good luck w/the stock, I think you'll do well! I don't know how much you have, but I hope it's a-bunch. I'm gonna buy as much TSLA stock as I can for the future, as I think it'll be about 10x its value in just a few years (and I know that it's already expensive at $165/share compared to a few short months ago). I actually only own 1 actual share myself right-now, as I've been trading exclusively in Options to-date. I need to get a good base of TSLA stock to hold for long-term. Working on it…

I made a 1,000 mile round-trip down to FL this week in my MB C55 AMG to visit my Dad. The AMG performed flawlessly, easily cruising at 85 MPH, but sucking gas to the tune of 21 MPG and about $200 for the 1,000 miles. The AMG is a great car, but I missed driving the Tesla; the AMG really does feel slow, sluggish, and unresponsiveness in comparison (and it's really-not compared to any other car, only in comparison to the Model S).

Hopefully next year I can make the same trip at $0 cost using the Tesla Supercharger.

Best wishes...

Ok, so I've had my Tesla Model S P85 for 4 months now. It is just the best car imaginable.

If you can afford it, buy it.

If you can't afford it right now, try to figure out how you might in the future.

Simple as that.

Sorry, no M35h content, as this thread has drifted to other content. IMO Hi-Perf hybrid is dead, Tesla is the future...

Sure, I think I actually do have $100,000 kicking around somewhere... Let me check the couch cushions.

Hi Baxter,

Yes, I've come to the same thoughts. Problem is, I can't justify the cost of the model s. I just can't get there. Still with two years left in the M, I can't see myself taking a loss on it, when it really is a wonderful big sedan. Super powerful and comfortable and the decent gas mileage with 25-30% of my miles in EV...hard to justify losing on it to get into a Tesla that costs twice as much if not more..... that's the financial cost balance and utility gain comparison I can't justify. On the flip side the idea of getting off gasoline is ideal, and the car would be in general superior....but the cost? This is what upsets me about Tesla....I feel the bigger and better gamble was simply to produce an affordable car as opposed to the model s....a mass market car that was superior to the rest in its class at an affordable price would have truly propelled the company from where it is today. Now, we won't see that car for four years? In the meantime, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan and others will have affordable, high style EV cars in 2014. Look at the Mercedes B Class for example. Not the glory of the Tesla perhaps, but an affordable car that's still a Mercedes and will get the job done. I think Tesla will be one of the many when it finally produces a real mass market car, and thus, I'm not sure they'll be valued as highly as they would have been making this move earlier... Of course, if money or principle is no matter, than yes, I assume the discussion above doesn't really matter, but the price tag to me on the model s now is almost the opposite of what Tesla says they stand for....which, if not mostly, is at least partly conservation.

So, my only other thought is to pick up a less expensive full EV in the next year, one noted above, and then see what Tesla has to offer when the M is up in two years.

Evan,

That's a solid financial assessment & I can't fault you for that. The Model S *is* a really expensive car, and I was lucky to be in a position to get one. Without the lottery-like gains I made from my stock options, I couldn't justify the cost either.

I had an almost once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to get a dream car essentially free, and I'll admit that emotion played a big part in the decision. And TSLA stock is taking a beating right now due to a lot of media attention on just three fires (one after a horrendous crash) that could have all been a lot worse in a conventional vehicle. So the stock could be a great buy right now, or it could fall even more. I personally think that the current price is a great buying opportunity right now long-term; but nobody can predict the stock market. I do think that if you're in the market for a $100K car, the Tesla is just head and shoulders above any competitor.

But I disagree that MB, BMW, Nissan, etc., can/will have a viable competitor by the time the Tesla Gen. III comes out. The battery management and power-train issues in an EV are non-trivial, and Tesla has a huge lead over its competitors in these areas. The responsiveness and control in a Tesla is way better than in a Leaf or Volt, and that's not just a factor of the extra power. Even at low speeds, the Tesla just feels better than other EV's, and that's due to a lot of tuning experience that Tesla has learned over the past 5 years. Plus the traditional manufacturers have a huge investment in ICE vehicles, and are less likely to push EV development to the same degree Tesla does. Tesla had and has to sell relatively high-priced cars now to finance the R&D for the "affordable" car in 3-4 years. I'm confident the Tesla Gen. III car will be far superior to any competitors when it arrives.

All that said, it's certainly wise to plan to hang onto the M35h for now; it's a great car, and in a couple years we'll all have a much better view of future EV possibilities.


And bejjustu, keep checking those cushions!

RIght, Baxter...well, I hope you're right about the Tesla Gen III or Model E.... Again, my only issue is that I'm waiting 3-4 years for it... So, maybe get something in the middle in the meantime... Meanwhile, Tesla is making the batteries for the MB EV B-Class, so they're still involved...along with all of the super-charging stations they're building.

Stock has taken a big hit...moved up a bit today... I just doubled-up on my shares. No idea what I'm doing, but like being invested.

Hello All

Just got a new M35H last month and I love it. I was actually shopping a 2011 Alpina B7 but got a stupid deal on a M35h so i figured I'd try it for a year or two. Glad I did as it has been one of the best driving cars I have had in quite some time and I've been through a lot of performance cars. The performance, luxury and novelty is hard to beat. Plus it was a lot cheaper than what I was about to spend. I like the RWD also, just threw a set of blizzaks and rims from Tirerack and no issues on the NYC snow we recently had.

Sounds great, Elansman, and congrats! We've posted a lot of information here, but bottom line, it's one of the best cars on the road, for the all around features. I've noticed, depending on where people live, the mpg varies from 24 mpg through 32 mpg average. While I personally am on the low end, and would have loved to have seen numbers around 30, I'm very please with such a car giving me even 24 mpg easy. The size, the space, the drive, the feel, I just love driving it. The comfort of the interior...you just feel like a king. Keep us posted...let us know your experiences, mpg, and any questions?

I've been averaging at the low end on that range (I did get 30+ on a highway stint recently), but I assume it will get better. I've never really got gas mileage like this car in any car I have owned in quite some time, so 24mpg and performance like this, I'll take all day. Great value in this car. This is my first Japanese car in some time and it's great. Also my first hybrid and I'm impressed, I honestly think these type of hybrids are the future of performance cars. Whilst some people are turned off by the curvy look, I love it. A few quirks about this car and a few places where I think Infiniti cut corners but overall a great package for the price.

Good to hear. Yes, I will say, if I can curb expectations, my MPG has never improved, even well over 20,000 miles on the car... That has been disappointing, but I"m fine, again, with what I'm getting. I thought there would be a break in period, but not for me. Again, fine.

I love the lines. I think from any angle, the car looks amazing...perfectly sculpted...and you can't beat that interior. Post a photo of yours if you can with the new rims.

What quirks don't you like and where do you think Infiniti cut corners?

I think the biggest little problem is that technology improves so quickly, so by the time these cars are ready for market...things like navigation on our mobile phones is far superior than what's in our car...so once the cars can just simply regurgitate our phone screens on the auto screens, the cars will feel out-dated in tech... I think the newer "tablet" type screens, like in Tesla, and hopefully what's coming in Volvo (and Infiniti) will do a better job.

A few quirks...you need to have baby fingers to move seat when door is closed, heated steering wheel button ill-placed, transmission gets lost sometimes...takes a while to find gears.
Sunshades and front top console are extremely cheaply made and plasticky, no parking sonar (at least in the 2012...yes I found a brand new dealer leftover 2012 that they were desperate to get rid of).
Otherwise it's a really nice car. I do agree with you on the navigation etc, but that's one feature I rarely use so not too much of an issue. Yeah mpg is disappointing somewhat, but then again I only have 750 miles on mine as of now so hopefully it gets better.
Haven't figured out how to post pics here yet, I'll get a pic up.

Yeah, cool! Yes, great getting those deals when the year end model is still available. The car didn't really change in 2013, except for the sonar as you mentioned. I don't have the sun shades so interesting to hear. Don't find much else that feels cheap. The voice control and phone tools are cumbersome at best for me, but otherwise, at least they work. And unlike our phones, the voice control simply isn't natural or intuitive. Bluetooth audio works well though.

May work to post the photo somewhere else, then link us in. Or email me at evanmagic at aol .com

Actually I was referring to the sun visor and top center console with the weak yellow lighting. LED lights would have been great. I do find the short oil change intervals annoying too. But I guess I'm nitpicking.
We're expecting 6-8 inches of snow friday so I am curious to see how the car handles that with the blizzaks.
Above all, the car is a great value and I love the ride. Hopefully I don't get bored too quick...lol...

There's an issue I've had since I bought the car. Every time the gas tank reads 1/4, it only takes 10-11 gallons to fill up to max. I know the tank has a 17.8 gallon capacity. Took it in to the dealer and they replaced fuel pump, sender unit etc. Now after that the issue got somewhat better however still not entirely resolved.
Have you seen/heard about a similar issue?

Hi,

At around 1/4 tank, I'd say that's about right. I usually let the car warn me before filling up...so I get to the point where the yellow/orange light turns on or I get the warning message in the dash. By that time, the computer reads I've got about 50-70 miles left. I usually push it a bit, but when I fill up, I usually fill up about 13 - 14 gallons. So...what I'm guessing is...on the dash display, when you hit zero fuel left, you've really got a 2-3 gallon reserve of the 17.8 left. Not saying risk pushing it, but I think they just don't want you to run out of gas, based on the display. The real bummer of the car is having a small gas tank. The non-hybrid M has a 20+ gallon tank, but the hybrid version, I assume due to space, shrinks the tank to 17. Gas mileage is better, but you're still going to the gas station the same number of times per month it seems, due to the smaller capacity tank. I think Baxter wrote some notes on mileage remaining in tank and the warning lights in earlier posts...see if you can find it.

Meanwhile, I also noted, I'm only servicing the car on Schedule B, which is every 7500 miles. I talked to Infiniti, and basically, they said it was fine. Now, I live in a "lack of weather" location...always warm here, no snow and may see two days of rain/year, etc. So, the car is not in the "elements." You mentioned snow, so you may want to run it by your dealer or Infiniti and see what they say. My concern was voiding the warranty, in which Infiniti said that would not happen in my case.

Keep us posted...

Thanks for the info, that really helps clarify things. I guess I'll stick to their short intervals...do they not use synthetic oil at the dealer? It's more of a time issue, taking it to them for an oil change.
I see you guys get nice warm weather, this coming weekend's going to be extremely cold. Past year was challenging what with hurricane Sandy which completely devastated parts of Long Island. Some parts are still rebuilding.