Lightweight Flywheel Interest Thread

[JDRosenberg07]

Okay so ive emailed about 8 or 9 different companies asking if they were in the process of making or were interested in making a lightweight flywheel for our A/C. I told them i would create an interest thread for it. I am basically trying to find out how many people are interested for each engine.

And just to clear this up early for people who arent very car savvy,

Benefits Include: Reduced mass equals increased acceleration. Improved mid-range torque in a normally aspirated engine due to not having to overcome the heavy weight of a stock flywheel. Faster Revving and decreased deceleration. The benefits are mainly in the lower power band and lower gears.

The main drawback is cost of installation. It can be a bit $$$

This is for the 2.5 and 3.5

Sedan and Coupe

ONLY for the 6MT

NOT for the CVT's

Here is a really good video that shows a comparison between a stock and a lightweight flywheel in a Porsche 997.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er1eYuVe2zE
Modified by JDRosenberg07 at 9:58 PM 7/25/2009

[crayzitalian3]

yo JD isn't there one from stillen?

http://www.stillen.com/product...LTIMA

nvm realized it was just for the 3.5's

[JDRosenberg07]

I emailed kyle a few months ago asking if there was a possibility of them making a lightweight flywheel for the 2.5 and he said that they there simply werent enough out there to make one for it. but maybe we can change their minds too if we can get enough people wanting one

and as for the one on their website it says its for the 2002-2007 3.5l... not sure if that makes a difference tho.

[crayzitalian3]

who knows, i wish i had a m/t, i decided the other day that i will be sticking with my car for a while because my car payments are up in june of 2010 and i wanted to upgrade to a Z, but don't want to be working my butt off just to keep up on the payments for the car and insurance. so now im stuck with an auto for a while

[Throckmorton]

Benefits Include: Reduced mass equals increased acceleration. Improved mid-range torque in a normally aspirated engine due to not having to overcome the heavy weight of a stock flywheel. Faster Revving and decreased deceleration. The benefits are mainly in the lower power band and lower gears.

The main drawback is cost of installation. It can be a bit $$$

Modified by JDRosenberg07 at 9:58 PM 7/25/2009

I searched on other forums and came up with this food for thought:

Aftermarket Lightweight Flywheel (ALF)

Aftermarket lightweight flywheels are designed to weigh less than the stock factory flywheel. The most common ALFs are constructed either of aluminum or steel. Most aluminum flywheels feature a replaceable friction surface, making them easy to rebuild. On the other hand, a steel flywheel can be resurfaced only once.

Pros: On a naturally aspirated vehicle, an ALF is a good way to reduce excess rotating mass, allowing for increased acceleration.

Cons: Excessive low end clutch chatter, premature synchromesh wear, and possible engine damage will occur if the ALF is too light or not properly balanced. If the ALF is too light, a lack of initial inertia can cause the vehicle to stall easily when moving off from a standstill.

Conclusions

A properly designed flywheel that is chosen to match the vehicle application is integral, since the flywheel is an energy storage device that determines the amount of power available to get the car moving. A heavier weight flywheel can store more energy as it rotates, which is perfect for cars with engine and gear combinations that need more power or inertia to make the car accelerate. A lighter flywheel creates less inertia at launch, but accelerates quicker through the gears.

Just making you think before you dive in.

Be safe,Loenard T.

[bravey_z12]

how much$$$ and power we talking about ?if is worth a diff gain ,i d be interested

[JDRosenberg07]

Well I just emailed the companies over the weekend so I'm still waiting to hear back.. Installation i'm not sure on but could be around $600 from what I've heard.

As far as gains go there are more gains in the lower and mid range of the rpm band and decrease the higher you go. I don't have exact numbers and I will try to get a reasonable estimate from the responses I get but from what I've read it can be pretty significant.

Lenny, I appreciate the extra insight as I am not an expert when it comes to mechanics but i have done my homework too, all the companies I've emailed are all well known companies that are well experienced in making flywheels not some joe schmo I found on eBay so I don't think anyone should worry about them not being properly balanced or poorly made.

Second, I'm not asking them to make a 7lb racing flywheel, my A/C is my DD and I'm not looking for anything extreme. JWT made one for the earlier model altimas that was 12lbs, half the weight of the OEM flywheel according to their website. So low end chatter or stalling due to loss of inertia is unlikely.

If a company is willing to make one, trust me to make sure they will do it right I have never been one to go half a$$ on anything, especially something that could potentially blow up my engine if not done properly

[Throckmorton]

Well I just emailed the companies over the weekend so I'm still waiting to hear back.. Installation i'm not sure on but could be around $600 from what I've heard.

As far as gains go there are more gains in the lower and mid range of the rpm band and decrease the higher you go. I don't have exact numbers and I will try to get a reasonable estimate from the responses I get but from what I've read it can be pretty significant.

Lenny, I appreciate the extra insight as I am not an expert when it comes to mechanics but i have done my homework too, all the companies I've emailed are all well known companies that are well experienced in making flywheels not some joe schmo I found on eBay so I don't think anyone should worry about them not being properly balanced or poorly made.

Second, I'm not asking them to make a 7lb racing flywheel, my A/C is my DD and I'm not looking for anything extreme. JWT made one for the earlier model altimas that was 12lbs, half the weight of the OEM flywheel according to their website. So low end chatter or stalling due to loss of inertia is unlikely.

If a company is willing to make one, trust me to make sure they will do it right I have never been one to go half a$$ on anything, especially something that could potentially blow up my engine if not done properly

I agree with your assessment of the companies involved. They do make quality products, and you are correct, they would not stay in business if they made inferior products. Forgive me if I left you with the impression that the companies are the 'fly by night', here today, gone tomorrow type that you sometimes see selling items on e-Bay. And no, I'm not saying that all companies that sell on e-Bay are shady.

I'm only trying to provide information so people who are contemplating a modification will have a little more knowledge to act upon before they spend a lot of money to buy the item, spend money to install it, and then find out that they are not satisfied with the results.

Maybe it is just me, but I would rather have as much information as possible, pro and con, before I make a purchase. I sense that you feel the same way as I do.

I do have a question . You made the statement: "So low end chatter or stalling due to loss of inertia is unlikely.."

How do you know that? What facts do you have to show that this would be the case with a late model 2.5 Altima?

In my opinion, that is a rather large assumption, as you state: "Well I just emailed the companies over the weekend, so I'm still waiting to hear back.. "

I am in complete agreement wth your statement: "I have never been one to go half a$$ on anything, especially something that could potentially blow up my engine if not done properly."

You mention a price of $600.00 to install the flywheel. That sounds reasonable. Checking the Stillen website, and yes, I am aware that they as yet do not make one for the late model 2.5, I found that similiar performance flywheels cost around $600.00, and clutch disc kits are also in the $600.00 price range. In my opinion, it would be prudent to install a high performance clutch kit when the flywheel is installed.

I'm not sure that spending between $1200.00 and $1800.00 for a performance clutch kit and performance flywheel is cost effective, as there are a few downside 'cons' that factor in the equation for street driven vehicles. Race track driven is a different story.

It is your car and your money, so you are free to choose what to do to it.

Just keep an open mind.

I'll leave you with these memorable lyrics from The Rolling Stones

You can't always get what you wantYou can't always get what you wantYou can't always get what you wantBut if you try sometimes you might findYou get what you need.

Knowledge is a possession of which man cannot be robbed, everything else needs to be bolted down and padlocked.

Be safe,Leonard T.

[rich2342]

[QUOTE=Throckmorton]

I searched on other forums and came up with this food for thought:

Aftermarket Lightweight Flywheel (ALF)

Aftermarket lightweight flywheels are designed to weigh less than the stock factory flywheel. The most common ALFs are constructed either of aluminum or steel. Most aluminum flywheels feature a replaceable friction surface, making them easy to rebuild. On the other hand, a steel flywheel can be resurfaced only once.

Pros: On a naturally aspirated vehicle, an ALF is a good way to reduce excess rotating mass, allowing for increased acceleration.

Cons: Excessive low end clutch chatter, premature synchromesh wear, and possible engine damage will occur if the ALF is too light or not properly balanced. If the ALF is too light, a lack of initial inertia can cause the vehicle to stall easily when moving off from a standstill.

Conclusions

A properly designed flywheel that is chosen to match the vehicle application is integral, since the flywheel is an energy storage device that determines the amount of power available to get the car moving. A heavier weight flywheel can store more energy as it rotates, which is perfect for cars with engine and gear combinations that need more power or inertia to make the car accelerate. A lighter flywheel creates less inertia at launch, but accelerates quicker through the gears.

Just making you think before you dive in.

Be safe,Loenard T.

Good Post man.. It's not all roses when you go from a Dual mass flywheel to lightened rotating mass slywheel. It can throw off the synchronization of the engine and affect gear shift and transmission life.

They make for fun racing though...

[RobPaulson]

Leonard ur the man!

Awesome informational post. I learned something today

Is there any way that you could expand on this point a little further, i do realize and accept there is a huge difference, i just have absolutely no idea what it is as i've never raced or been into that scene...

I'm not sure that spending between $1200.00 and $1800.00 for a performance clutch kit and performance flywheel is cost effective, as there are a few downside 'cons' that factor in the equation for street driven vehicles. Race track driven is a different story.

1. Why would you recommend a performance clutch kit as well? what benefits does it provide and how does it work with / enhance the flywheel mod? (just stronger and more durable to handle the added power from the flywheel?? if u cant tell im a complete newb lol)

2. If you do install all of these 'racing' parts, how does street driving cause potential issues?

[JDRosenberg07]

1. Why would you recommend a performance clutch kit as well? what benefits does it provide and how does it work with / enhance the flywheel mod? (just stronger and more durable to handle the added power from the flywheel?? if u cant tell im a complete newb lol)

A performance clutch would only be necessary if you were to drastically increase the torque in your car, like adding a turbo or super. If you didnt upgrade your clutch and increased your power waaaay more than stock, your stock clutch could and most likely slip and not hold the power.

I believe Lenny suggested installing a clutch and a flywheel at the same time because it would cost way less on labor then if you have one installed and then a couple months down the road install the other.

So if your only adding bolt-on mods that have some gains but is still in spitting distance of stock power then you should be fine without a performance clutch. It doesnt exactly enhance the flywheel, as the flywheel does not technically "add" power, it just reduces rotational mass to accelerate quicker.

2. If you do install all of these 'racing' parts, how does street driving cause potential issues?

These arent neccessarily racing parts, im not looking for a 7lb flywheel like i stated in an earlier post, im looking for something around 12ish lbs which is not extremely light.

Good Post man.. It's not all roses when you go from a Dual mass flywheel to lightened rotating mass slywheel. It can throw off the synchronization of the engine and affect gear shift and transmission life.

How exactly is that? If the flywheel is properly machined and balanced it would no more throw off the synchronization of the engine that the stillen pulley does, which is none btw, and both are connected directly to the crank.

And the same goes for gear shifting and transmission life. some flywheels actually prolong the life of your engine and transmission as they dont have to work nearly as hard to move the vehicle.

[JDRosenberg07]

I do have a question. You made the statement: "So low end chatter or stalling due to loss of inertia is unlikely.."

How do you know that? What facts do you have to show that this would be the case with a late model 2.5 Altima?

In my opinion, that is a rather large assumption, as you state: "Well I just emailed the companies over the weekend, so I'm still waiting to hear back.. "

It is not an assumption as stalling due to lack of inertia happens when the flywheel is extremely lighter than stock. I have already stated that i am not looking for an extremely light flywheel. i am simply looking for something that will decrease the rotational mass of the stock flywheel. And yes while some inertia will be lost it will not be so much that it would cause you to stall out.

And as for the low end chatter, this is mainly caused by aftermarket clutches due to a much higher coefficient of friction which refers to the clutch. The higher the friction the more chatter you will have.

However chatter can also be caused by a flywheel itself but this is when there are imperfections on the flywheel's surface or if it is not properly machined, balanced, resurfaced, etc..

6. CAN MY FLYWHEEL CAUSE CLUTCH CHATTER? – Yes but it is only possible if the clutch has extreme heat damage due to excessive slipping of the clutch. The type of clutch disc material used causes most clutch chatter. The more abrasive and “grabby” the material the more chatter you will have.

There may be however some added vibrations due to switching from a dual mass flywheel, used to reduce engine vibrations, to a light weight or single mass flywheel.

You mention a price of $600.00 to install the flywheel. That sounds reasonable. Checking the Stillen website, and yes, I am aware that they as yet do not make one for the late model 2.5, I found that similiar performance flywheels cost around $600.00, and clutch disc kits are also in the $600.00 price range. In my opinion, it would be prudent to install a high performance clutch kit when the flywheel is installed.

The price i found for installation was simply an estimate i found on other websites were for other vehicles and was only to be used as a rough estimate. The actuall cost of installation will vary. as will the price of the flywheel and clutch.

Why do you see it prudent to instal a clutch with the flywheel? i would agree if you planned on adding a super or turbo that would greatly increased power beyond the specs of the stock clutch down the road. otherwise it would be unnecessary to add more clamping force if you dont have the excess power to clamp down.

[peteyd]

I want the clutchmasters FX300 clutch but they don't make a flywheel yet and no one does as you have found out. I have spoke with Clutchmasters a few times the FX300 is good up to 550ftlbs of tq @ the flywheel and retails for about $550 roughly. It's the same clutch as the g35/350z. But i've been pretty much holding off until a flywheel was produced since my turbo should be going on in the next few weeks I'm not sure how long the stock clutch will hold so i'm still researching around.

[JDRosenberg07]

Well so far I have gotten responses back from JWT who said they will be looking into the possibility of a clutch/ flywheel upgrade in the future,

however I did get a response from Fidanza who said they would be willing to make one for a minimum of 10 orders but they would need a stock sample. He could not give me a rough price estimate without seeing the flywheel, he did however say that they would work with one of their distributors for an introductory price.

The only thing is not many people seem to be very interested in this so it may not go much further unless some people start showing some interest. I'd hate to see this not work out when it's such a realistic possibility

[peteyd]

Honestly I don't see this happening as I wouldn't be surprise the ratio of mt altimas to cvts are probably like 10 - 1 if not higher. When mine was purchased it was the thrid 6mt 3.5 produced and it was quite a bit of trouble to get it. If we could get more altimas in general to go for this then I could see this happening but honestly now no. Another option to look into is to see how differnt the flywheels are between the us and the g35/z's, since we do share same transmissions.

[JDRosenberg07]

Yeah i know there arent as many MT's on here but impretty sure we have more than 7 on this forum between the sedans and coupes. I mean look at the short throw shifter, if there wasnt enough MT's racingline wouldnt have come out with it.

[mcheddadi]

Yeah i know there arent as many MT's on here but impretty sure we have more than 7 on this forum between the sedans and coupes. I mean look at the short throw shifter, if there wasnt enough MT's racingline wouldnt have come out with it.

lol 7? http://forums.altimas.org/zerothread?id=366113

we are more than the CVT guys on this forum

[Throckmorton]

I believe Lenny suggested installing a clutch and a flywheel at the same time because it would cost way less on labor then if you have one installed and then a couple months down the road install the other.

So if your only adding bolt-on mods that have some gains but is still in spitting distance of stock power then you should be fine without a performance clutch. It doesnt exactly enhance the flywheel, as the flywheel does not technically "add" power, it just reduces rotational mass to accelerate quicker.

These arent neccessarily racing parts, im not looking for a 7lb flywheel like i stated in an earlier post, im looking for something around 12ish lbs which is not extremely light.

And the same goes for gear shifting and transmission life. some flywheels actually prolong the life of your engine and transmission as they dont have to work nearly as hard to move the vehicle.

JDR,

You are correct when you said that I said it would be cheaper to replace the clutch at the same time you are having the flywheel changed., as you would save a second labor charge if you wanted one installed later.

I also agree with your comment about add-on mods.

I see that you want a flywheel that weighs around 12 pounds. From what I understand, the stock 2.5 flywheel weighs somewhere in the 20-22lb range, but I could be off a little, so don't bet next weeks paycheck on it.

Put your thinking cap on for a moment or two.

Why did Nissan choose a flywheel weight of lets say 22lbs?

Why not use a flywheel of 20lbs? 18lbs? 16lbs? 14lbs?

I don't work for Nissan, but I have at one time or the other have spent the night in a Holiday Inn Express.

The answer that I would postulate is that after a considerable amount of real world testing, this particular weight was chosen because it provided the best all around performance, driveability, and offered the best reliability, for how the car was designed by the factory engineers for its intended use. I don't for a minute think that Nissan intended or designed the 2.5 Altima to be driven as a stunt double car in the next The Fast and the Furious movie.

Can the overall, day to day, street driven performance be improved in the 2.5 Altima? Of course it can be improved.

It seems to me that you have your heart set on purchasing a light weight flywheel, once one becomes available. I say go for it!

You are extremely informed on this issue, and you have researched the issue. You are to be commended for this work. Knowledge is power!

I have but one simple request from you. If and when the lightweight flywheel is made for the 2.5, and you install it, please be honest in your assessment when you post your results. Let us see the pros and cons of your install, and as you said "And the same goes for gear shifting and transmission life. Some flywheels actually prolong the life of your engine and transmission as they dont have to work nearly as hard to move the vehicle."

I hope for your sake your comment is correct. I just am not prepared to take that risk for my car.

Maybe President Obama will invite us both to the White House to drink a beer or two and discuss this adinfinitum.

Take care,Leonard T.

[mcheddadi]

this thread is so formal it makes my head hurt

[dldjros69]

I hope for your sake your comment is correct. I just am not prepared to take that risk for my car.

do you have any mods or plans to mod you car?

[peteyd]

Pick 2

Fast, Cheap, Reliable

[peteyd]

this thread is so formal it makes my head hurt

and i gotta agree with you

[JDRosenberg07]

So I guess no one is really interested in a flywheel then

[dldjros69]

So I guess no one is really interested in a flywheel then

You may be right. A few things could have caused the low number of responses. By you posting this in the correct section and not the coupe section. that could have hurt it.

The price and the fact that its not a DIY mod.

Bahh i still want one.

[peteyd]

im still interested depending on a price for the 3.5

[JDRosenberg07]

You may be right. A few things could have caused the low number of responses. By you posting this in the correct section and not the coupe section. that could have hurt it.

Bahh i still want one.

My thoughts exactly... Lol so I guess that makes it LBC's fault then...

im still interested depending on a price for the 3.5

The only problem with that is the company needs a stock flywheel and a minimum of 10 orders in order for them to make one.

So really 2 stock flywheels and 20 minimum orders to make both

[peteyd]

i may just wait for my turbo is in and see how long the stock clutch holds up and if anything have a one off made

[JDRosenberg07]

I don't get it.. This thread has over 300 views but less than 30 posts so far and only 7 votes between both engines. Why isn't anyone else chiming in?

[1125Altima3.5]

I hope for your sake your comment is correct. I just am not prepared to take that risk for my car.

I think the biggest risk is in finding a mechanic you trust to open up your engine and put it back together correctly. Barring a block rebuild or major warranty work, the only way anyone is going into my engine is through the oil fill plug, and the only thing going through there is going to be oil!

[peteyd]

I think the biggest risk is in finding a mechanic you trust to open up your engine and put it back together correctly. Barring a block rebuild or major warranty work, the only way anyone is going into my engine is through the oil fill plug, and the only thing going through there is going to be oil!

as far as i know you dont have to open up your engine to get to your fly wheel its all transmission work which is why its recommened to have the clutch and flywheel all done at the same time to save money. any reputiable transmission shop can do it but itll be costly because you'll have to drop the engine more then likely to remove the transmission.