L16 / 5 Speed Transmission

1965-1971 Datsun 521 forums. All 520 and 521 topics and discussion can be found here.
1bad521
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby 1bad521 » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

I have a 1970 PL521 with the L16 and I would like to put a five speed Transmission behind it. Does anyone know what will work?

Any info would be appreciated!

 

Cory


71-521
Posts: 858
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby 71-521 » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

There are 2 types of tranny's...the short tail and the long tail...
A "dogleg" five speed from a 200sx will bolt right in but they are weak...
A 280zx trans will require shortening the driveline...
here's some more info that was posted elsewhere:

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Trucks: 

521 (all) : Short transmission with flanged output 

620 (72-73): Short transmission with sleeved output 

(everything else below has sleeved output) 

620 (74-79): Long transmission; 5-speed optional starting in '77 

720 (80): Long transmission 

720 (81-86) NAPS-Z type long transmission except 83+ 4X4 used a married transfer case. 

Cars: 

240Z: Long transission; early 70 models had a dealer-option 5-speed that was very weak. 

260Z: Long transmission, 4-speed only 

280Z: Long transmission, 5-speed optional starting in '77 

280ZX Non-Turbo: Long 5-speed 

280ZX Turbo: '82-83 had Borg-Warner T5 which is unlike any other Datsun transmission. 

510, 610, 710, 200SX through 1979: Short transmission. Starting in '77 the "dogleg" 5-speed was optional except in the 200SX where it was standard. 

200SX (80-83): Long-tail NAPS-Z type 5-speed 

510 (80-81): short-type NAPS-Z 4 and 5-speeds, some 5-speeds were doglegs and some were 210 type 5-speeds that were far too weak for the Z20S. 

810/810 Maxima (through '84): Long tail transmission. Rumor has it some early (76-79) 810s had the short tranny but all I've seen were long. 5-speeds optional starting '77 and standard by '81.

Get a 1975-79 620 truck speedo cable...the 720 4x4 is longer still.
and more....

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FS5C71A: The original Nissan production 5-speed, used on some Roadsters and early 1970 Z's. Similar in construction to the Nissan Competition gearbox as it had a removeable bellhousing. But wasn't the NISMO close-ratio type. Very rare.

FS5C63A: That's the L-series dogleg. Came in both L-series and NAPS-Z type front housings. The L-series ones are more common as the 200SX '77-79 had it almost in every car. The '77 710 and the '78-79 510 had it as an option on everything but the Wagon. The NAPS-Z version was only used as an option on '80-81 510s and was very uncommon. In '81 they even tried the 60L below. Bad move...

FS5C60L: Another dogleg, used on some late '81 510s but usually used on 210s (2 different cases, A-series and NAPS-Z). You do NOT want that tranny. Reason below.

FS5C56A: Close-ratio A-series 5-speed (used on B210s and some 210s but it is non-overdrive. I have one, if I ever get another B210 or a 1200. Or I'd trade for a L or Z series dogleg (63A). Only saving grace is it's close-ratio. It doesn't handle torque at all.

FS5C71B: Used in the 280Z, ZX, and 620 and 720 trucks. Came in both the L-series and NAPS-Z type front cases.

FS5C71C: Used in 300ZXs and late 720s/early D21 (hardbodies). Came in VG-series front cases and NAPS-Z.


Torque ratings for the various series transmissions (stolen from the Datsun 1200 page)

56A 4 speeds 105 ft/lbs
56A option boxes 120 ft/lb
60 series boxes 135 ft/lb
63 series boxes 175 ft/lb
71B series boxes 240 ft/lb
71C series boxes 300 ft/lb

You can see why you don't want the little doglegs on a monster engine. The Borg-Warner T-5 (used on '82-83 turbo 280ZXs) is good for even more (340+).

The cases can only be swapped for like type transmissions- 63A to 63A or 71B to 71B. All Nissan transmissions were 2-part (front housing and extension housing) except the 71A and Comptetion boxes which were 3-piece (removeable bell).

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L-series transmissions: 
------------------------------------------------- 
F4W63 (1967-1976). Used on the original 510, 521, 610, 620 (through '73 only), 710 (through '76). Identification: Bolt-on bottom plate and visable ribbing over the main gear case.  Use threaded shift lever with 2 rubber cone bushings. Variants: 521 used output flange. All others used spline-sleeve. Short tail transmission. 

NOTE: Transmission also used on J-series and R-series engines with different bell pattern. 
-------------------------------------------------- 

F4W63L (1976-mid 80s). Used on Late (78-on) 510s, late 710s ('77). Identification: Bolt on bottom plate but SMOOTH main gear case. Uses same shifter as previous. Short Tail transmission. 

---------------------------------------------------- 

F4W70B (1969-73) 240Z 4-speed. Long tail transmission. 

---------------------------------------------------- 

F4W71B (1974-80s). 260Z, 280Z, 620 pickup from '74-on, 720 pickup to mid-year '83, 810/810 Maxima. Identification: pinned-type shift lever. Rear extension of transmission has bolt-on cover plate. Long Tail transmission. 

------------------------------------------------------- 

FS5W63A (1977-81) '77-79 200SX, '78-81 510. Identification: Dogleg shift pattern. Smooth rear case and NO bottom cover, pinned-type shifter. Short-tail transmission. 

Note: 5th gear overdrive. 

VARIANTS: '80-81 510 version was canted for NAPS-Z orientation. 

-------------------------------------------------------- 
FS5W60L: '81 510, rare. Also dogleg, more common to 210s with a different bell. Very short (shorter than the short-tail). 

-------------------------------------------------------- 

FS5C71A: (1968-70) Identification: Removeable bellhousing. Original production 5-speed, looks like the NISMO competition gearbox (it isn't one though). OD 5th. Used only in very early Z's. 

VARIANT: It's the roadster 5-speed with a U20/R series bell.    

-------------------------------------------------------- 

FS5C71B: 1977-80. 280Z, 280ZX (non-Turbo), 810, 620/720 pickup trucks. Identification: Looks just like the 4-speed longtail except it doesn't have the extension housing cover plate. Has "71B" cast on it.  Pin-type shifter. Longtail transmission, externally 100% swappable with the F4W71B. 

Note: Various gears, but 5th is always overdrive. 

Note 2: Never used on NAPS-Z. 

------------------------------------------------------ 

FS5W71C (80-still in use) 

ID: Identical externally to 71B model except has "71C" cast on it. Used in 80-83 280ZX (non turbo), 810 Maxima. 

Variants: NAPS-Z pattern on 80-83 200SX/81-86 720, 86-89 D21, KA pattern (same as NAPS-Z) on D21, Frontier, Pathfinder, Xterra, very common gearbox. Unfortunately the bell isn't removeable so an entire front housing has to be changed. Later versions and 4X4 versions have different extension housings. Only used on 4-cyl after 1983. 

------------------------------------------------- 

Borg-Warner T5 

1982-83 280ZX Turbo. 

ID: Huge. Shifter assembly bolts into an attachment box (linkage is internal). Output shaft not Datsun-sized. This is the Non-World Class (NWC) BW T-5.
and more:

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L-series, NAPS-Z and CA20 gearbox ratios

Notice that there are a few basic groupings of gear ratio sets. 

The '77-'79 200sx/HL510 tranny uses stock 510 sedan 4-speed ratios with an OD. The '77-'79 200sx/HL510 tranny is the dogleg 5-speed with reverse-above-1st gear pattern, same length as stock 4-speed so no driveshaft shortening needed to swap. This is a well spaced gearset but the OD gear could stand to be slightly taller. 

The Z22E 7/81-9/83 200sx and the truck #1 (plus an overdrive) are same as the late 240 and 280Z 4-speed ratios. Ratios not particularly well spaced. NAPS-Z tranny can be bolted to a L-series engine but the shifter will be angled toward passenger, bend lever to compensate or swap on a Z/ZX bellhousing. 

The 280Z 5-speed ratios are largely "re-used" for the Maxima, 6/79-6/81 200sx w/ Z20e, nismo wide ratio, truck #2. Ratios are poorly spaced. The 11/84-2/86 200sx w/ CA20 is very similar except it has much better gear ratio for 2nd that closes the huge 2nd-3rd hole in the 280Z pattern. For use with an L-series, a 280Z/ZX style bellhousing must be swaped onto the CA20 tranny case and bellhousing modified to match with larger diameter CA20 shifter rods, and use smaller OD 280zx jackshaft bearing

The roadster, 280ZX and nismo close ratio gearsets are fairly similar. 1st gear on these trannys is too tall for stock 3.9:1 510 differential, street starting acceleration suffer. Otherwize, nicely spaced ratios except for the too-tall .745 ZX 5th gear. The 1980 ZX gearbox has slightly shorter 5th gear and would be prefered. 

'83-10/'84 200sx w/CA20 and the truck # 3 use same ratios. This is often touted as the best gearsets for a 4-cylinder 510. Very low 1st gear for fast starting acceleration and smooth progression of jumps between ratios. For use with an L-series, a 280Z/ZX style bellhousing must be swaped onto the CA20 tranny case and bellhousing modified to match with larger diameter CA20 shifter rods, and use smaller OD 280zx jackshaft bearing. Sorry, I dont know what years/models of trucks corrospond to truck #1, #2, #3 gearsets.


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IMH
Posts: 468
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby IMH » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

You say a 'dogleg' is weak.  Don't confuse the L motor dogleg with the NapZ motor shortail dogleg.  Have you ever used one?  I've used the L series dogleg 5 speed in 6 previous cars  and have never had a problem with them.  I presently have that tranny behind the J16 in my 320.  9 years with no problems.

1bad521
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby 1bad521 » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Wow! Thanks for all the info! I use my truck as a daily driver. I drive 15 miles of highway each way running about 60+ miles an hour. I also use my truck on old logging roads to go hunting, fishing, dirtbike riding etc.

Which tranny would you recomend looking for? Any Ideas which ones are more common and easier to find?

 

Thanks again,

 

Cory

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IMH
Posts: 468
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby IMH » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Look for the 5 speed from the 77-79 200SX or 78-79 A10 which is the late model 510.   Those years had L series engines.  Don't get the one from a 80 and up because it's canted to match the NAPS Z motor.

zetajunkie
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby zetajunkie » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Hey all!  I've been trying to reassemble my 72 521.  have been slowly working through various issues as they come up (thanks to John for the fan shroud).  Today's issue involves an expensive find on ebay...
    i picked up a short tail 5 speed dogleg tranny to give me some piece of mind on the highway.  2 issues though.
Issue 1:  mounts between the 521 tranny and new tranny different, so i'm going to have to modify it to work for me (doable)
Issue 2:  the 2 piece 521 driveshaft is flanged while the 5 speed tranny is for sleeved....

My questions are:  1.)  are there any bolt in sleeved 2 piece driveshafts that i could  use?
                               2.)  if not, would any sleeved datsun driveshaft fit?  if so, i could find any sleeved driveshaft and have a driveline shop swap
  the ends of the driveshafts?
                               3.)  why can't things ever go easy?

:D
                              

User avatar
IMH
Posts: 468
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby IMH » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

I have that same trans in my 320 along with a roadster differential.  I took the front yoke from the donor car of the trans and the rear yoke from the donor car of the differential and had a driveshaft built.  You could probably just take the front yoke from your trans donor car or one like it and have a drive line shop graft that to the front of you esisting driveshaft.  I would have done that with my original driveshaft but is was smaller in diameter than the two vehicles the yokes came from.

zetajunkie
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby zetajunkie » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

hmm, the problem is i only have the 5 speed transmission, i didn't get the driveshaft with it.  would any datsun sleeved driveshaft fit?  for example, i found a late 70's datsun truck or z driveshaft, and used the end of that in place of the front yoke on the old 2 piece?

mklotz70
Posts: 452
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby mklotz70 » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

ADrummond is a member on here, but hasn't posted, so the info he put up before must be on nwde.org  .....anyway...

I'm pretty sure he found that you can simply take the flanged one off  your tranny and use it like a sleeved one....same splines......the prob is the hole in the middle of the yoke has to be filled.  He machined a plug for it.  He put up nice pics of how he did it, but after about 20min of fighting with the search feature on nwde, I gave up...maybe you'll have better luck.   Maybe Paul has a better idea of where it's at.



phiz
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby phiz » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Is the FS5C71B one of those, what you might call a middle-close ratio trans? (75:1 overdrive)

(I have a love/hate relationship with mine. 2nd gear syncro is a temprimental p.i.t.a.)

zetajunkie
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby zetajunkie » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

hmm, i'll try and fill the flange next weekend.  i searched nwde, and didn't find any pics of what you were talking about, but plenty of other random info.

i'm not exactly sure what tranny it is, i'll take some pics of it this week.  i never did find its # though...  my only concern was that it was a short tail 5 speed that would bolt to my block...

zetajunkie
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby zetajunkie » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

i pulled the yoke off the old tranny, slips right in the new one.  :) 
i didn't have a chance to take a pic yet, but i'm almost positive that the tranny is a 63a (because i found that marking near where the 2 pieces of the tranny come together)

i'm not sure why oil would come thru that hole, since i just had the transmission rebuilt, but i'll use some gasket sealant between the yokes just to be safe.

after all these months, my baby is almost back on the road!

Pac. coast Datsun
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby Pac. coast Datsun » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Ive been following this thread lately with interest. Im also swapping in a 5 speed out of a 82 Z car into my 71 521 w/ L 16 w/ a short 4 speed. I was surprised to see the flange on the end of the 4 speed & thought id have trouble finding a driveshaft that would work. I found a 1 piece shaft that slides right in after the flange is unbolted but...its a 1 piece, i kinda want to keep it 2 piece & shortening it isnt a problem for me. Im going to try & do what you did & see if the 4 speed flange will fit into the Z trans. & then i can shorten the stock front shaft & be back on the road! Do you have any pics of the new trans. in the truck? Heres a pic of the flange on the 4 speed.....


zetajunkie
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby zetajunkie » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

i've been in the middle of finals this week, so i haven't put it in the truck yet (and even then, i have to rig up a new tranny mount).  i have a calc final tomorrow morning, then i'll get back to full time truck thoughts, and part time work thoughts....  :)
i'll snap some this weekend though for sure.  that pic, it's the same flange as mine.  i've been scouring here and nwde, and i think i've figured out that i should use the tranny fork, throwout bearing, speedo gear, and clutch from the 4 speed, and all should be well.  i guess we'll find out this weekend.

oh, i have a L18 going back in, but i didn't think it would make any difference for this project.

Pac. coast Datsun
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby Pac. coast Datsun » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Well after today ill have a few pics of the tranny mount I modified to work on the 5 speed. This is so far the hardest part but not impossible.

Pac. coast Datsun
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby Pac. coast Datsun » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

I was able to modify the 521 trans. mount today. I cut 2 inches out of it & welded it back together. I also cut 4 1/4 inches out of the front shaft & it all bolts right back together...
The trans. mount after modifying...


Pac. coast Datsun
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby Pac. coast Datsun » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

& the cut & rewelded front shaft. 4 1/4 inches were cut out...


zetajunkie
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby zetajunkie » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

some nice welds there.  is the driveline balanced still?

Pac. coast Datsun
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby Pac. coast Datsun » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

TY not bad for a rookie, Ill probbaly have to get it rebalanced just to be safe unless it doesnt feel any different.

phiz
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby phiz » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Hey, that is a pretty nice bead there.... I wish I could weld.

I wouldn't sweat the reballance unless things start flopping around, (I imagine you'll know as soon as you drive it abit), or you plan on running some high horsepower in front of it.

 

Pac. coast Datsun
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby Pac. coast Datsun » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Come down to SD ill show you, its easy & i have lots of spare body parts you can practice on :cool: Motor is bone stock [grease & all] L 16 so no power there. But being able to shift into 5th is gonna be sweet! Mike...for the center hole i was thinking of cutting the end of the 4 speed shaft off,placing it in the "hole" & welding it shut. Should seal any potential leaks. Either way ill keep snapping pics & maybe do a writeup to help others out. Im not a thread jacker...:cool:

Pac. coast Datsun
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby Pac. coast Datsun » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

I decided to weld in a piece of metal on the end of the flange to stop any potential leaks. Should work fine,,i love my welder...:cool:


zetajunkie
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby zetajunkie » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

my solution to the hole at the end of the flange was a freeze plug with some rtv sealant around it.  fit perfect.  i took a picture of it, but it came out blurry (lcd screen on my camera doesn't work).  my custom mount is similar to the one above, but a little messier (and painted to avoid rust).  i wasn't in macro distance, so the focus feature worked out...

zetajunkie
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby zetajunkie » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

another pic of the mount before install.  we didn't have a wire brush to get off all the slag.  oh well.  a cut off wheel was used to cut the original mount down.  the backplate was 5/16 inch steel from home depot, and the rest was from the original mount.  the top lip was the cut out and hit with a sledgehammer until it started to look like it was 45 degrees.  it was tack welded in place, then pulled out to have the rest welded.  it is a bit lopsided, but it seems to be fine.

Pac. coast Datsun
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby Pac. coast Datsun » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

I like the mount, kool to see the different ways they come out. Today i bolted the shafts & the carrier bearing brackets put back in.

apos
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby apos » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

I saw you were all covering the five speed swap here, I was wondering if anyone knew of a good rebuilder that has done Datsun five speeds. I have a couple transmissions and would like them looked at at least before I put them behind any of my engines. Thanks!

zetajunkie
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby zetajunkie » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

in the vegas valley, there aren't too many tranny shops that will mess with manual transmissions, let alone datsun one's...  most places i called
out in henderson, nv (it's inbetween las vegas proper and the hoover/boulder dam/boulder city) a place called "adams driveshaft"  went though mine.  i didn't have anything wrong with it, so i ended up paying for labour ($250....) and about $15 for the price of new seals.  i'm loving the 5 speed.  i go about 70 at 3g rpm/ compared to the 55 or 60 before...


(now i just have to fix my leaky differential...)

Pac. coast Datsun
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby Pac. coast Datsun » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Zeta glad yours is on the road. I did drive mine once & the rear seal went bad,new one should be here today. To me it's worth all the modifying just to be able to ..like you said go 70 & have the rpm's low. Are you running a gear reduction starter?[off a Z car] Im not & it makes a noise when i turn it over. A few have said the GR starter will fix that.

zetajunkie
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby zetajunkie » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

hmmm, i'll have to listen for a noise.  i used the same starter i had on before, and i haven't had any problems that i'm aware of. well, other than the 200sx bell housing 's top bolthole for the starter doesn't go all the way thru , so i ended up using almost 2 inches worth of washers.  had to use washers to mount the clutch slave cylinder too, because the mounting area wasn't flush like the stock tranny. i used the throwout bearing, fork, and clutch slave from the truck.  one thing that is nice about the 72's slave cylinder is that is adjustable.  the one that came with the 200 sx wasn't.

apos
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby apos » Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Thanks for the info zeta. I have the stock four speed in my '71 and I drive it 240 miles round trip from my home in Torrance (LA) to Lake Arrowhead and it tops out at 80 MPH. I'm not sure what my RPM's are but it does scream pretty loud for about two hours each way! Luckily I have a loud stereo! I have a couple of Z places near by and I'll ask if they can go through them.


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