ka-t vs sr20det? why?

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dark_munchkin
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SR owner's are just mad because the "truck motor" is starting to catch up in terms of power and popularity.


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redtop91
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dark_munchkin wrote:SR owner's are just mad because the "truck motor" is starting to catch up in terms of power and popularity.
Wow the ignorance of that statement offends my eyes but I wont ruin a productive KA vs SR thread to discuss it. No one ever disputed the KA's power potential because you can make any motor powerful with enough money but will it be reliable? In most of the KA's I've encountered... No

GuSpeed
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Hey guys I didn't start this for flame wars to occur. It was just about cost efficient of SR or KA-T.

I do think both motors are good and you really can't go wrong with any motor swap. But I just want opinions from people:

1. Is it worth gamb|ing on ordering a motor, risking that you could get junk?

2. Is it worth turboing my motor @ 160k at low boost because I think that my motor with turbo has just as good of a chance blowing up as getting a junk motor.

What is your OPINION in which option is more safer? Now no flames or put downs. Just OPINIONS.

Thanks a lot!!

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redtop91
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I got stood up originally on my SR But Paypal FTW! They reclaimed my money and gave me the products they recovered. Honestly I never thought about the danger of acquiring a JDM motor but nowadays you can practically buy an SR from a Nissan dealership. I'm really interested in how people justify the KA-T. I never gave the truck motor a second thought honestly and I'm curious about what made those who did give it a second thought.

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redtop91 wrote:I got stood up originally on my SR But Paypal FTW! They reclaimed my money and gave me the products they recovered.
That was God telling you that you're stupid...lol

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Logan76
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lol WD gave it a 2nd thought and made over 400hp

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Florida240sx
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You know why the KA's go bad mainly?? Poor Tune or inexperienced people. With an SR it already has a timing map so even if it overboost you won't pop the engine like you will in KA.From what I have read it all comes down to the iting that has killed most KA-T's Because they pushed the limit and they found it... Haven't heard of any KA's recently being broken... Mainly is just SSautochrome people and people cheaping out and not tuning it correctly.

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Logan76
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Cheaping out on a car is never good, especially on your project turbo motor.

dark_munchkin
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redtop91 wrote:Wow the ignorance of that statement offends my eyes but I wont ruin a productive KA vs SR thread to discuss it. No one ever disputed the KA's power potential because you can make any motor powerful with enough money but will it be reliable? In most of the KA's I've encountered... No
Reason why I dislike SR's...everyone who has one thinks they are god's gift. We all know the RB26 was.

I was kinda joking on my first comment. I the SR is a good motor, just don't think I want to get raped on swapping one (it shouldve came with one in the first place).

GuSpeed
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okay lets end this post moderator, i think i got the answer to what i asked and this post is gooing to get pointless.

thank you.

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Edub1
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On these boards it's easy to get a bunch of sillyness when you are seeking advise. So, I'm going to give you the serious advise you are looking for.

Adding a turbo to a KA motor is quite involved. Adding it to a 160K motor without rebuilding first is just plain foolish. Either motor will perform well and cost about the same.

You need to ask yourself how much time and money you want to spend. If you want a turbo motor, you need to swap. The SR is going to take far less time and involvement from start to finish.

I have a SOHC KA-T and would probably go SR if I had it to do over. Not because it's better, but because of all the ****ing around and jerry rigging I had to do. Or at least turbo a DOHC on account of aftermarket support.

If you don't plan on spending at least $2500 - $3000 (not including clutch and LSD) and doing a motor swap, you should consider a cam or cams, a header and a good tune. I'm quite sure you could gain at least 40WHP with these mods. The KA exhaust is designed with a few PSI of backpressure that can go for 15+HP and a cam should add another 15. Adding about 5* of timing and leaning out the KA's God awfull rich fuel map should add another 10-20.

For under $1000 and no swap, 180-190HP N/A FTW. I will be glad to help you with a tune.

GuSpeed
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Could this be kept in one of those stickies that helps new members on topics like this?

This has very good conversation with people who knew what they were talkin about and no flame wars.

All motors are good for whatever reason YOU want. Depending on what power you want, more low end, or more high end, all motors can get you the desire horsepower goals.

RB- smooth inline 6 very strong internals that can handle 400hp + before modifying anything.

SR- inline 4 very strong internals for power up ot 300-400hp before modifying anything.

KA- inline 4 but because it has 2.4, it will have more low end. Still internals are very strong, it can handle the same as the SR 300-400hp depending on setup from my research.

CA-1.8 so obviously it has less torque than all above and it internals can handle 200-300hp before modifying internals.

Please correct this if its wrong. This is based on all my readings and research. So from the data, you choose how much power you are looking for, whether you want more low, mid, or high end.

It's like saying one 1000cc sportbike is better than another. Honestly they are all so good that only experts can tell the difference. Your average Joe won't be able to notice really. The same goes for the motors in the car. All Joe is going to know is this is a lot faster than my stock engine. All motors can get a lot of power. It all depends what you want to do.

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redtop91
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I'd just add that in the extreme boost levels all of the above perform exceptionally except the SR. I don't know specifically what kind of boost the SR block will accept but I do know its less than the KA, far less than the CA, and nowhere near the RB. What? neutral info from an SR owner? I must be going

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crash n burn
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theres that route..if you look into it..a few parts here and there will easily turn an n/a KA into one stout motor. plus you cant forget that you'll deffinetly have the almost assured reliability of an n/a motor over a turbo(unless its been tuned almost dead on=$$$$). check on that, and if its not enough for you.. go turbo

im putting on everything i have for my car finally during the next 2 days

and edub, i didn't know that the ka ran that rich, whats the best way you can solve that one

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Edub1
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Tuning should be easy. A Bikirom for a DE or a zif socket for an E. The fuel maps can easily be tweeked. An SAFCII can do it too but it does it globally which isn't as good and won't allow you to advance the timing.

Many motors these days run rich under heavy load to protect the cat. You want to lean out to 12.5:1 for max power. The KA get's way down into the low 11s if I remember. I've seen a dyno showing these rich conditions along the 2nd half of the graph. I think you can find one if you search.

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Florida240sx
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I say forget money and hassle because both are going to be the same. Base your decision off torque or reviness

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redtop91
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Florida240sx wrote:Base your decision off torque or reviness
Reviness FTW!!!!!

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redtop91 wrote:
Reviness FTW!!!!!
Thats the GHEYEST word I've ever seen typed in this forum!!!

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redtop91
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WDRacing wrote:
Thats the GHEYEST word I've ever seen typed in this forum!!!
Gheyest is the gayest word ever.

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Florida240sx
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lol

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C-Kwik
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Edub1 wrote:On these boards it's easy to get a bunch of sillyness when you are seeking advise. So, I'm going to give you the serious advise you are looking for.

Adding a turbo to a KA motor is quite involved. Adding it to a 160K motor without rebuilding first is just plain foolish. Either motor will perform well and cost about the same.

You need to ask yourself how much time and money you want to spend. If you want a turbo motor, you need to swap. The SR is going to take far less time and involvement from start to finish.

I have a SOHC KA-T and would probably go SR if I had it to do over. Not because it's better, but because of all the ****ing around and jerry rigging I had to do. Or at least turbo a DOHC on account of aftermarket support.

If you don't plan on spending at least $2500 - $3000 (not including clutch and LSD) and doing a motor swap, you should consider a cam or cams, a header and a good tune. I'm quite sure you could gain at least 40WHP with these mods. The KA exhaust is designed with a few PSI of backpressure that can go for 15+HP and a cam should add another 15. Adding about 5* of timing and leaning out the KA's God awfull rich fuel map should add another 10-20.

For under $1000 and no swap, 180-190HP N/A FTW. I will be glad to help you with a tune.
The SOHC KA presents certain challenges as there is less support. But any jerry-rigging done is not an issue that is inherent to the SOHC KA. It's a result of laziness and/or cost. There have been many quality SOHC KA-T turbo builds that didn't have said "jerry-rigging."

As for these NA mods you mention, you are adding peak gains, instead of realizing that these do not necessarily represent the gain in peak power. Most mods do not create the most HP gain where peak HP occur. Most part manufaturers will boast the peak gain in power. Adding up peak gains in HP claimed by manufacturers generally won't add up to the total gain in peak HP. Many years ago, SCC had a 240sx project car that had about all the bolt-ons short of FI or NOS. IIRC, it was in the 145-150 WHP range. So you're probably looking at about 175 HP tops. This was on a DOHC motor which starts with 155 HP. Off the top of my head, the mods were an exhaust, intake, cams, header, and ECU. It may have had some adjustable cam sprockets as well. It was quite responsive to the mods, but at the end of the day, the total peak HP was not anywhere close to the peak gains in power each mod had boasted.

Dollar for Dollar, a turbo will make much more power.

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Edub1
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I seem to be the only one on this forum that ever looks at things in terms of practicality.

Any turbo setup will cost upwards of $2,500 or more when all the little stuff is added up. Plus, it will consume a great deal of time. For those who enjoy spending their time wrenching, time might not be an issue - for others it is. If big power is your goal, a turbo is the only way to go. But, for modest gains with far, far, far less work and money a cam/exhaust/tune can yield a good amount of power. I dynoed 127RWHP on my bone stock SOHC on a Mustang dyno. 175 or even 165 RWHP for ~ $700 is a fun car and actually more bang for the buck than a stock SR at 4-5X the cost. It's only when you get into higher boost that the turbo setup runs away with the cake.

For easy low cost pep, I say cam/header/ tune FTW.

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crash n burn
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dont forget you can always throw in a pulley system, and a light weight flywheels..

your motor will be able to rev up quicker, little pep in your step, you'd break the tires free easily just accelerating hard enough..always fun

ebp
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Im debating on the same process, im 17, first car will be a s14, and im debating on whether to get a stock s14 and just do some small mods, or maybe add a turbo but now i hear thats a lot of work, and im only automotive 11 qualified, but im not that bad. I think and sr engine swap would be a lot for me and a buddy to do with some teacher help so im wondering what you guys think i should do for around 220 whp give or take 20. I could do the swap in my automotive class but i dont think i wanna go down that route with all that work. For me would all this tuning take a lot of work? im thinking of maybe just buying a stock s14 and live wiht it or seach around for one with an sr already swapped in, risking a lot of things, and probably having to ship it far due to i live in vancouver, bc, and considering i would like a test drive and inspection done that wouldnt be that good either... what would you guys recommend i mean how old are most of you should i not be such a power seeker at 17? What solution would your recommend, i think i would be more of a revvy guy than a torquey one, but it dont matter much to me, thanks in advance for advice

edit: yes this would be my daily driver, just want the power for some fun on the side, safe fun, of couse.
Modified by ebp at 10:29 PM 12/4/2006

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redtop91
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ebp wrote:what you guys think i should do for around 220 whp give or take 20. i think i would be more of a revvy guy than a torquey one, but it dont matter much to me, thanks in advance for advice
You just described the SR20DET. To get a KA to 220 WHP you will have to turbocharge it with the KA there is no reason to have to build the engine, do all the nitpicky tuning for those numbers. To get a KA there you will have to spend 2000+ dollars especially if you daily drive it. a redtop SR20DET motorset costs $1650 and with an exhaust and FMIC ($400) you will have your stated goals. Go SR

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crash n burn
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certainly dont go looking for a swapped one..people take advantage of the fact that it is done, and since its in high demand..they'll stiff the **** out of you

1650..sounds a little cheap for an sr, where you getting that price from?..lowest i've seen was around 1900 retop and 2200 black top

GuSpeed
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This is a really good thread!! SR are cool, but it is true! How much power you want? If you use your car daily driver and you don't want **** load of power, add-on mods are great.

If you want more power, go turbo. No arguements. They all good. Just read around! Thanks guys!!

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often time you spent $1200+shp on an sr swap + labor etc, (if you really want 300whp+ out of the sr a new bigger turbo is needed, FMIC, etc) and then after $5k later, you still wonders WTF is with it not running right. don't think it's turbo equiped motor, and it won't break, you can blow the motor as easily. trust me, i have seen all this personally. check out ka-t.org if you want to xploit the power of ka-t...

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redtop91
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BoostsFed wrote:often time you spent $1200 on a n sr swap and then after $5k later, you still wonders WTF is with it not running right and dont think it's turbo equiped, you can blow the motor as easily. trust me, i have seen all this personally. check out ka-t.org if you want to xploit the power of ka-t....but then when a swap is involve, rb all the way.
Disagreed. If you are patient and thoroughly research the swap and dont undertake it before you can complete it an $2500 SR swap is very manageable. Thats at least how much mine was (but I did the labor myself and with enough patience you can manage a clean swap) I'm putting down 210 to the wheels with a ghettofied STOCK KA exhaust Here's proof that with a plan a clean (and powerful) swap is possible.








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C-Kwik
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redtop91 wrote:Disagreed. If you are patient and thoroughly research the swap and dont undertake it before you can complete it an $2500 SR swap is very manageable. Thats at least how much mine was (but I did the labor myself and with enough patience you can manage a clean swap) I'm putting down 210 to the wheels with a ghettofied STOCK KA exhaust Here's proof that with a plan a clean (and powerful) swap is possible.
I would say that for most people, adding a turbo kit will likely be easier and quicker than an SR swap. Not to mention the downtime. Doing work yourself does make things cheaper, but not everyone can or should even attempt these tasks.

But for comparison's sake, you're making 210 WHP out of your SR for $2500. It's not bad if 210 WHP might be all you want. But what if you want some 350 WHP? With the SR, you're going to need to get a larger intercooler, a larger turbo, and upgrade the fuel system. With a typical KA turbo kit, 350 WHP is nor more than a fuel upgrade and boost controller(or even a stiffer wastegate spring) away.

A KA turbo will be better suited to road course racing with it's larger more efficient turbo, and bigger intercooler. I'd expect with the upgrades made to reach 210 WHP on an SR, the stock IC will be heatsoaking quite quickly. Remember, an intercooler not only sheds heat, it also acts as a heatsink. Small intercoolers have less ability to act as heatsink. Couple that with a turbo forced to run at poor efficiencies, and the problem only gets worse.

You can probably add an SR or run a low boost KA turbo for about the same cost and yield similar power. With a low boost kit with a larger turbo, the KA will probably enjoy a slight power advantage. Up to about 350-400 WHP, the KA will probably be cheaper. Upwards of that simply becomes costly for either but the SR will have an advantage in max power when cost isn't a factor due to the R&D that has already been done.

Both the SR and KA are great motors. Both can make more power than most of us here can afford or need. But everyone needs to decide for themsleves, what is best for them. Whether its a gotta have it factor, or technical ones, the bigger picture and it's results should be considered. There is no one single answer to this question.


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