Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Discuss topics related to the CA18DE and CA18DET series engines.
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Izento
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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby Izento » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:40 am

Finally got finished. All in all, it's a worthy upgrade, but I highly improved everything from brake pads, to rotors, to calipers, so my stopping is fantastic. I accidentally put the left rotor on the right side, so I gotta fix that, lol.
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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby Izento » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:19 am

So currently, I am going to take the car to a welding shop to get my O2 sensor installed for the wideband. I'm trying to figure out if my car is actually running lean on boost, because my PFC says that it's getting knock, so I'm just doing this as a precautionary step. I'll give an update as to how the process goes. I also bought a fuel pressure gauge, din gauge pocket holder, fireproof suit, new visor for my helmet and fireproof gloves. More updates to come :)

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby Izento » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:59 pm

Here's the pic of the gauges installed. Just need to clean the outside a bit. Fuel pressure seems good, although I'm having some weird hesitation (occasionally) when accelerating and hitting a block once boost starts to build, which I have good reason to believe is related to fuel, since I had a fire which destroyed my old fuel pump assembly (long story). AFRs are s***, need to talk to my tuner. The car is staying put until these gremlins can be solved.

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby Izento » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:21 pm

Update:

I went to the junkyard and picked up some parts. I replaced the fuel assembly and it seemed to fix my hesitation under boost problem. I also replaced the fuel pump, but I'm sure that my old pump was good, since the problem only came up when I replaced the fuel assembly before (so basically someone sold me a s*** fuel assembly). This also fixed my fuel level gauge fluctuation.
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This little piece is connected to a breather line on the fuel tank, which connects over to the charcoal canister. I ended up losing mine when I broke my axle and the axle smacked some stuff around underneath. I believe this item is called the fuel tank check valve. This part is responsible for transporting extra gas fumes from the gas tank, into the charcoal canister to be cleaned and then returned to the intake manifold. Going further with this idea, I don't think this is related to my lean issues, it's just more of a QoL (quality of life) part, since people eliminate their charcoal canister with no issues, most people just run this line into the open air. I'm just tired of the gas smell in my car when my tank is near full (as the gas is then closer to that breather valve, which the fumes works up through the access panel in the trunk and into the cabin), lol.
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More to come later, as now, since all the other issues related to my lean equation have been eliminated, I can take it to the shop and get it taken care of without them charging me an arm & leg with getting the parts themselves and spending time hunting problems I already knew existed.

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby float_6969 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:31 am

You have to post pics of the dyno charts!!!

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby Izento » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:48 am

New Tein tie rod inners and outers w/ spacers are here along with Megan Racing silicone dust boots. I don't ever want to deal with ripped boots again, so this should cover it!

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I've never done a tie rod install before, but I've done my research and it seems quite straightforward. I was first a little daunted to tackle this since it looks like a very delicate piece of equipment to work on, but after looking at other install guides, it doesn't look difficult at all!

As a side note, I was going to get SPL outers, as they have bump steer adjustment and also have a nice teflon coating, so that you don't ever have to worry about the join failing. I then noticed that the other part which I just purchased, the GKTech roll center correction kit comes with bumpsteer correction and it gives the car a s*** ton more angle, so there really isn't any need for the SPL outers other than the teflon coating. The SPL outers cost about $250 whereas the Tein tie rod combo costs $225, so I say I made the wisest choice. The GKTech part is on backorder, but I'll install everything at once.

(these pictures aren't mine, but it gives me an idea on how to install this part)
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I also bought new Hella headlights. I previously had Ebay headlights (from previous owners terrible decision) and they were giving my old eyes trouble seeing at night when I went to touge on desolate roads. The only time I could really see well was with the brights on. The light focus on the Ebay lights were terrible and I knew that the Hella headlights would be a nice major upgrade. I was on the fence between Hella, Raybrig, or another brand called Trucklite (which are LED and super fucking nice). I decided all the others were too expensive and I have other things to spend my money on.
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In other news, I got my car back from the shop and I guess my timing was just too high, possibly from the CAS. I'm still wondering how accurate this is, since usually the CAS only messes up if you f*** with it or the cams, which I haven't. Now though, I was out a couple nights ago, testing out my new headlights and went to about 6k rpms, spinning tires in the wet, when suddenly after I backed off, my car was sputtering. I thought I might have popped a vacuum hoes, but then I smelled coolant, uh oh. I pull over, shut the car off, as I see a little steam near the headlights. Pop the hood and see my turbo area steaming a little. I've seen the turbo do this if I do a hard shutoff without cooling down, so I don't know if that area is actually my problem, but I didn't have a clear idea of what actually was causing the leak, as it was raining outside.

I got the car towed back home and have yet to touch it again. I'll give more news on what the actual problem is, but I'm hoping it's a combo of vacuum and coolant hose somewhere popping. Let's pray it's not the headgasket, cause then I'm building this motherfucker with pistons, new turbo, new clutch and wpc coatings.

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby float_6969 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:13 am

I hope the issue is something minor!

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby Izento » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:14 pm

GKtech Roll Center Correction Kit is here! So it comes with 4 large removable studs, some washers and 4 lock nuts. I think I'm starting to get an idea of how to do this. More importantly though, I figure out if my car is working properly tomorrow, lol.

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby Izento » Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:14 pm

Yup, headgasket. Water is contaminating the oil, as is evident from the drops coming from the engine and the milky consistency under the oil cap and on the camshaft and it's definitely cylinder 4, as there is water slightly coming out of the exhaust manifold from that area, then into the turbo and out the downpipe. All of my intercooler piping is intact and seems like my vacuum pipes are on tight too, so there's no explaining the hesitation other than the headgasket. Looks like I'm coming back with a ridiculous beast earlier than expected. So now, as far as waiting to rebuild, will the water in my head/block f*** anything up seriously? I would imagine that rust would build over time, but since I'm getting the block honed/bored, would it really matter? I just want to know how much time I have to rebuild this in the best manner possible.

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby dash » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:24 pm

never let any water 'sit' in a cylinder. You'll wish you didn't

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby float_6969 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:49 am

Yea, you need to get the coolant and oil drained ASAP, get the head off, and get the coolant cleaned out of the cylinder ASAP. You may find you simply have an old failed head gasket and it may just simply need replaced. Did it overheat?

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby Izento » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:08 am

float_6969 wrote:Yea, you need to get the coolant and oil drained ASAP, get the head off, and get the coolant cleaned out of the cylinder ASAP. You may find you simply have an old failed head gasket and it may just simply need replaced. Did it overheat?
No, the car didn't overheat, so I don't believe I'll have problems with a warped head.

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby float_6969 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:48 am

Yea, if it didn't overheat, then the HG likely just failed from age. Putting another stock HG on will probably solve the issue and you won't need a rebuild.

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby Izento » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:16 pm

float_6969 wrote:Yea, if it didn't overheat, then the HG likely just failed from age. Putting another stock HG on will probably solve the issue and you won't need a rebuild.
Honestly, it was from all the det that I didn't get remedied early on, trying to figure out if it was really det or not until I wired up the wideband. I know I could put another HG on and call it good, but if it's already half way torn down, might as well get all the s*** I want done to the bottom end. My list so far for this rebuild:

WPC treament (piston rings, rod bearings)
supertech pistons
gt2871r turbo
headgasket
arp rod bolts
Act 6 puck clutch (375 or something torque)

I've come to realize that the CA sucks with a journal bearing, the motor is entirely too small to have one when you keep going up in turbo size. Meth injection will come later after I want more power. Maybe in the summer.

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby dash » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:42 pm

I'd never rebuild a CA18 that didn't need it. Nissan put em together pretty good
I'd sort out whatever tuning issues you had, first.... or you may wipe out your shinney new expensive parts

and journal bearing turbos have put the power wherever you could possibly want it on a ca18.... from mitsus to old T3/T4s.
Size the turbo correctly. A big tube thin wall header can adversely affect spinup, for example

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby kings13 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:11 pm

dash always has good things to say Izento, listen carefully. There are also like 5-6 different flavor GT2871r's, so be careful as to which one you choose.

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby float_6969 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:33 am

I'm with dash on this one. If you're not getting excessive blowby from worn rings, just put a HG on it. There's a HUGE difference between pulling the head and putting a HG on it, and a rebuild.

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby Izento » Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:02 am

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Sorry boys, I'm already buying parts for this. I want to make this clear that I don't drive this car except to beat the piss out of it. Although I haven't posted any videos and only one image of the car drifting, know that I do hammer it. I'm the type of guy who buys mostly top quality stuff when I want things done correctly, as my computer is evidence of that when I built it. As for the concern on tuning, I am taking it to PSI (Portland Speed Industries) for the tune. They have tuned several Formula D cars, so I have no doubt that they'll make a Mona Lisa out of my tune. I'm only disregarding your guys' judgement because it is in relation to my money, which isn't too big of an issue right now and upgrading the internals will have no negative effect, only a positive one. If it were something technical, I'd be more swayed.

As for the turbo, it's 48 trim, 64 A/R. I went with the .64 A/R for quicker spool. Although I would have preferred the 56 trim, as it does flow more (btw, I learned how to read a compressor map after looking up all these turbos, what trim does and how A/R effects a turbo), I couldn't pass the price up on this turbo, as it is used. Now, for the story of buying a used turbo, I AM COMPLETELY AGAINST BUYING USED TURBOS. I thought that the only way I would ever buy a used turbo is from a friend (I barely have car friends though). This turbo was rebuilt and he provided receipts of the rebuild from ATP and pictures. There wasn't a better opportunity for me to buy a used turbo than this, so I jumped on it, brushing aside the negative of the trim. Shaft play is excellent and a brand-new feel, blades look nice and all bolt holes are intact. My goal for this car is a touge beast, and I think this turbo will cover it.

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby kings13 » Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:33 pm

the issue is finding a competent machine shop willing to do proper work.

then finding a competent shop/person to put it all together. test fit/assemble, measure, disassemble. Tough to find someone who's actually going to really "build" the motor. Building a motor requires more than assembling it full of forged parts in freshly oversized bores with standard size race bearings and calling it good.

and we're not trying to argue with you, we just like to hear ourselves talk sometimes is all :inoutgay:

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby float_6969 » Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:49 am

If you have the funds and desire, then I say go for it. I think we just wanted to communicate that it wasn't a necessity. I have no issues with a quality rebuilt turbo. I think some people think they're black magic, but the reality is that they're actually a pretty simple device. They require special tools and understanding and experience to rebuild properly, but I think that can be said of just about anything mechanical in nature.

That being said, is a .48 A/R housing available? I'm not seeing a GT2871 in a 48 trim. Is it marketed as something else?

And Kings13 is right about engine builders. They're not all alike. I've gone through 3 different ones before I finally found one that is used to Japaneese/European motors and can appreciate the need to build them with tighter clearances than most of the domestic V8 engine builders. I actually ended up purchasing most of the measuring equipment needed to check all of the clearances during assembly. It was a good thing I did because the guy that did the original boring on this block had .003" of an inch of taper in the damn cylinders. I finally found another builder with basically all new equipment and was comfortable with machining tolerances down to +/- .00005". Every other engine builder I talked to scoffed and said you don't need to be that accurate, that being within +/- .001" was fine. And they're right, if you build the engines loose like the old domestic V8 guys do. Try and build a CA like that and you'll have low oil pressure, lots of blowby, excessive crankcase pressure (the CA's main flaw is evacuating the blowby from the crankcase) which causes oil to pool in the head, which in turn causes oil starvation to the crank.

Anyway, my point it, try and find a builder that has some Hondas/Mitsubishi/Nissan engines setting on the shelves. Ask them A LOT of questions. Look at the shop. Is it clean and well lit? How about the equipment. Hold old is it? Etc.

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby Izento » Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:39 pm

I thank you guys for the advice on engine builders. It sounds like you could mostly do all the engine work yourself, if only you had the expensive tools. I don't really know the right questions to ask. Maybe you could give me some advice on what tolerances to ask for? I am clueless as to if a stock head gasket can go to 83.5mm and if it cant, I know the RA has to be around 10-15 if I use a metal HG, but I don't want to use one if need be. Bores, I don't really know anything special about them pertaining to machining. I'm using a higher silicone piston, which would require less tolerances for the bores because of the expansion, but I don't really know what an acceptable tolerance is for that either. I only know of one good reputable machine shop around here from word of mouth.

As for the turbo, the 48 trim is definitely rare. It's still a .64 A/R but the 48 trim maxes out at 350 hp vs the 56 trim which is 380 hp. For what it's worth, the spool difference between the trims is about 100 rpms, so I don't think it's worth it for a smaller turbo. I'm just excited to not have an ISIS turbo. Not only that, but ISIS turbos went up from $450 to $570, so I won't lose much $ on the resale, lol.

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby float_6969 » Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:22 pm

The pistons come with clearances specified in the build sheet. The builder will bore the cylinders to match the pistons. The biggest issue I've had is bearing clearances and getting the deck surface smooth enough for a MHG. Print off the bearing clearances out of the FSM. Insist that the builder adhere to those specs. He'll likely try to talk you out of it. Decline his advice. Don't trust plastigauge either. If he needs a reason why, give the explanation that I gave earlier. He'll tell you to get a bigger oil pump. Tell him they aren't available. The way I knew that I had the right builder was when I started to tell him the clearances I wanted and he said that those were the clearances that he normally used anyway. That Japanese engines aren't like old V8's and you can't build them the same. Once I heard that come out of this mouth, I knew I had the right guy. He was also young, maybe a bit older than me. A lot of "old dogs" don't like to "learn new tricks".

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby Izento » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:46 am

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New pistons and rings came in!

I also found an engine builder. A couple of people on my local forum recommended this place near my apartment called Autosport Seattle. I called them and asked various questions about their equipment, tolerances and basic practices. They provided good information, better than what I received from a very popular shop I called earlier in the day. I decided to check out Autosport Seattle in person and I wasn't very impressed by the environment. The lobby was a mess, with books and parts lying around. I then got to talk to one of the machinists and he was immediately familiar with the SR20. I told him my engine was a little different, being that it's an iron block, not aluminum. I guess he's also the builder of Walker Wilkerson's motor and is used by another reputable shop for all their machine work. I think this is the place for my motor!

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby float_6969 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:35 am

Nice! I'm glad you found a place!

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby project//s13 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:37 am

Nice,keep us updated :)

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby Izento » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:46 pm

ARP Rod Bolts
Act 6 Puck Clutch
Exhaust Manifold Gaskets (I've reason to believe that my current gasket is leaking because when I blew the headgasket, water was coming out of the exhaust manifold gasket area. Just cheap insurance for now)
ATP GT28 Oil Fitting

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby Izento » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:48 am

I got around to weighing the pistons to get ready for weight matching. This is just one of many as an example.

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The real shocker was the pin weight differences. One weighed a whole gram difference, most had a .5 gram difference.

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Just out of curiosity, I weighed the clips and they all came in around .8 after the scale settled.

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I weighed each piston, then weighed each pin. After using some simple math of matching lightest piston with heaviest pins, I came up with the best weight differences possible.

Image
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Piston 1 + pin: 391.07 (0.00)
Piston 3 + Pin: 391.41 (-0.34)
Piston 4 + Pin: 391.82 (-.075)
Piston 2 + pin: 392.11 (-1.04)

Not too large of a weight discrepancy tbh, which is good, but I still want Piston 2 and 4 shaved a tad. I've done the most time consuming part of the weight match, but I'd rather not shave them myself, so I'll just be giving this sheet to the machine shop.

I was also thinking how my transmission would be holding up with the extra power and I've heard that many people break their pivot balls, not from the increased power, but from repeated clutch kicks (which I'm surprised mine has held up to the abuse), so I picked a stronger one.

Image

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby float_6969 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:16 am

Making progress! Glad to see it.

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby Izento » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:12 pm

Murky waters 0_0
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Gasket kit arrives
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Pistons out
Image

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Re: Izento's CA18DET Build Thread

Postby float_6969 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:02 am

Holy milkshake in the oil pan! That's a blown head gasket, LOL.


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