WARNING - Interest Check: Performance true manual rack

Post by **a_ahmed** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:04 am

Well you can go and re-read some of the comment highlights i copy pasted of those who got it as well as a few quotes from atomic rex (if you dont know who they are look them up).

A hicas oem remanned rack will cost you 500 bux, so good luck. It's comparing apples and oranges. Actually nissan used to ask for 1200$~ for a brand new hicas rack. I know most people wouldn't buy a brand new one but instead a remanned one, but just saying.

I know it may not be the thing to get for some people just yet or at all, but hey. I have full suspension done up other than LCAs and I want this I think it's very worth it for my car considering how much i've built it up.

The same company that builds racks for radicals in the Uk is building this rack so... I think they know what they are building and will have slightly higher quality norms than a 20 year old oem nissan:

Modified by a_ahmed at 12:09 PM 8/13/2009

Post by **hbpignosePA** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:35 am

wow what's with all the hate man; like alot of us said; if its reasonable.... for 1000 id rather get a remanned rack, and figure out how to run PS anyways

also you care to share your koni setup.

im also running koni's just havent upgraded to G/C sleeves yet.

Post by **simmode1** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:43 am

I love the idea of the manual rack, for a lot of different reasons that I don't feel like going into right now. But honestly, I've got waaay too much stuff going on right now to consider buying one. I just want the info available so that when it is time to upgrade, I'll know where to go.

But just because someone across the internet doesn't agree with your opinion or see things as you do, that's not a good reason to undermine your own previous efforts by adding more negative comments into the mix. Just a heads up.

Post by **scooby305** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:17 am

Put me down on that list- I have no power steering due to my manifold so I am going to have to do something soon.

Post by **a_ahmed** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:36 am

I apologize for coming off harsh, but it's just my experience in the last 4 years of owning a 240. The reason we don't get enough hardcore shiznit made is because of the attitude of the owners, it's bad business. I bought the car as a cheap entry sports car that from the get go I planned to go all out on. So anything that improves performance however minor gets me all excited.

Getting solid aluminum rack bushings from yanack (japanese company) was a great improvement by itself, anything that I can change or add on the car that has performance value always gets me excited.

My koni setup is the run of the mill veilside180sx koni 8611 setup. You can check it out on the nissanroadracing forum.

Post by **simmode1** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:56 am

a_ahmed wrote:I apologize for coming off harsh, but it's just my experience in the last 4 years of owning a 240. The reason we don't get enough hardcore shiznit made is because of the attitude of the owners, it's bad business. .

Very true. Everyone encounters this whenever they propose some new or unconventional modification. I got flack when I proposed the VQ30DET as a viable new motor to swap. But when opposition popped up, I just shrugged it off and kept going.

Such is life, man. Such is life.

Post by **c-rad** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:33 pm

a_ahmed wrote:A hicas oem remanned rack will cost you 500 bux, so good luck. It's comparing apples and oranges. Actually nissan used to ask for 1200$~ for a brand new hicas rack. I know most people wouldn't buy a brand new one but instead a remanned one, but just saying.

It's comparing apples to oranges because you are comparing a remanned replacement part priced for the naive general public to an item aimed at an audience with some idea of what's going on. The former are the same people who pay ludicrous amounts of money on simple repairs only because they don't know better.

I just don't see how this--

...put into a cylinder with some grease = anything close to $1k. And don't say "R&D" because that was already done a long time ago on the RX7 ones they made. Just need to adjust the size of the parts. I can't imagine it costing more than $100 in "high quality" materials. But I digress. I won't be buying one, so carry on.

Post by **Bumnah** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:48 pm

I am not sure exactly what the process is. I'm not planning on getting on myself, but I've read some of the posts a_ahmed has made on this topic.

I believe the company is CNCing the housing for this setup. Since there is no manual rack from the manufacturer, the housing is being made. I could be wrong. I also don't think they're using a generic housing, but a custom one for the application. They are also incorporating mounts.

Depending on how high the level of the machining is and tight the tolerances for the build would be represented in the cost.

With the company making parts for race applications I don't think this is some run of the mill shop doing repairs. For the cost of $1000 it's really not that bad. I paid $200 for my HICAS rack which is old but luckily does not leak. I paid $250+ for my SPL outer tie rods, and then some more money for the inner tie rods. New inner tie rod boots. Since I did all the labor myself it was inexpensive, but I've easily got $600 in to the setup. Obviously it could be cheaper than what I paid, but fact is going fast requires money.

$1000 isn't that much for what they're offering, obviously some view it another way.

Post by **Karateboy88** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:31 pm

Come on, most of the housing is just an aluminum pipe Then the flanges can be Tig welded on.

At the same time a 20 year old CNC machine can mill the rack to any relevant tolerance.

Post by **Bumnah** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:46 pm

Karateboy88 wrote:Come on, most of the housing is just an aluminum pipe Then the flanges can be Tig welded on.

At the same time a 20 year old CNC machine can mill the rack to any relevant tolerance.

So whip one up for us, real quick there guy.

Post by **s13beast** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:30 pm

mmmmmm no thanks now.

Post by **Karateboy88** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:19 pm

Bumnah wrote:So whip one up for us, real quick there guy.

Give me the cash for a CNC machine, 5K should do it, and $200 fot a spoolmate for my Miller Mig so I can weld aluminum. Then I'll sell these bad boys for $500 each.

Post by **a_ahmed** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:24 pm

Yes it's all cnc'd... By all means guys if you think you can whip one together on the cheap good luck, best of luck.

Anyways not to sound like a d!ck but I have enough interest, I am doing this as a favour for people who know what this is and have wanted one for a long time. I'm getting one for myself, the guys who are pissing on this can keep to themselves. It's not like I'm getting anything out of this. I am just a bit excited that for once a higher end product can be had for our cars.

Like I said, I bought my car as a cheap sports car, sure, but I went in with the mindset that I want to go all out... and doing that is kind of hard when half the crap is made in china junk meant to please the masses of hard parkers.

This is not a slapped together product, nor is it being done by some shmucks who know nothing. If it's a product good enough for radicals, it's good enough for me, and atomic rex said they've even done work for formula 1... I think therefore they have pretty good quality at least to a certain level soo... if the pix are not enough to convince some, testimonies of some others, etc... by all means. Ignore the friendly the offer.

For those still in on this By all means, everyone is welcome to join in. I am on vacation starting tomorrow (YAAAY long overdue as I've been stressed from too much working).... so hopefully tomorrow/weekend I am shipping my sample. I've been so busy/preoccupied...

Post by **Bumnah** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:59 am

Karateboy88 wrote:
Give me the cash for a CNC machine, 5K should do it, and $200 fot a spoolmate for my Miller Mig so I can weld aluminum. Then I'll sell these bad boys for $500 each.

Now you've answered your question as to why it costs $1000.

You wouldn't splurge on a TIG welder since you've got a CNC machine?

Post by **gnvarnadore** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:11 am

Karateboy88 wrote:
Give me the cash for a CNC machine, 5K should do it, and $200 fot a spoolmate for my Miller Mig so I can weld aluminum. Then I'll sell these bad boys for $500 each.

you think you can buy a CNC machine for 5k? what model/brand? i used to work in a steel fab shop and i ran a Peddinghaus FPB 1800, we were the 2nd company in the US to have one when the company got it and it cost over a half a million.

Post by **simmode1** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:23 am

Karateboy88 wrote:
Give me the cash for a CNC machine, 5K should do it, and $200 fot a spoolmate for my Miller Mig so I can weld aluminum. Then I'll sell these bad boys for $500 each.

After which, you'll promptly go bankrupt from losing a chit ton of money by underpricing your product. $500 wouldn't cover your overhead or make a profit for you. This is a business we're talking about here... Not a company building hacked up chit in their backyard shed.

a_ahmed wrote:(YAAAY long overdue as I've been stressed from too much working)....

We can tell...

Post by **Karateboy88** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:25 am

gnvarnadore wrote:
you think you can buy a CNC machine for 5k? what model/brand? i used to work in a steel fab shop and i ran a Peddinghaus FPB 1800, we were the 2nd company in the US to have one when the company got it and it cost over a half a million.

Things used to be crazy expensive but they are not anymore. Now anyone can set up a small manufacturing company in their garage for the price of a new car.

http://widgets.nbc.com/o/47f13...d6c81

You can convert an old mill into a CNC machine for 1000 easily. My point isn't whether a CNC machine costs only 5K or 25K, it just doesn't costs that much to make s*** like this.

http://www.premierequipment.co...0Wide

http://buildyourcnc.com/default.aspx

Bumnah wrote:
Now you've answered your question as to why it costs $1000.

You wouldn't splurge on a TIG welder since you've got a CNC machine?

Yea I didn't splurge on a Tig in my hypothetical scenario

BTW you can weld aluminum with Mig.

simmode1 wrote:
After which, you'll promptly go bankrupt from losing a chit ton of money by underpricing your product. $500 wouldn't cover your overhead or make a profit for you. This is a business we're talking about here... Not a company building hacked up chit in their backyard shed.h

You guys need to stop glorying the production process. It's just not that expensive.

If they're a company with high fixed costs and I set up a company that makes a comparable product with lower fixed costs then its their fault.
Modified by Karateboy88 at 8:33 AM 8/14/2009

Post by **a_ahmed** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:35 am

^lol

*face palm*

WOW why didn't you just say so! Here let me contact formula 1 for you! They will gladly hire you now for your amazing advice of saving money!

Cmon get real... if you can build one yourself apparently like so mr mechanical engineer, please do so.

I think the point here is, s*** costs money and people need to make money for making it too. I'm not making personally any money out of this, but hey... I guess it's not good enough for getting a company to make something for us once in a while.

It's like people who buy bodykits (apples and oranges example as that's hard parking equipment for the most part but...). When a company comes with a bad a** new body kit people will be like "oh its too much money" and they will jump on the first ideal moment that someone knocks it off (despite s*** quality) and buy that instead and make the original company go bankrupt and out of business.

It's this sort of mentality that makes legitimate companies go *face palm* and turn the other way.

This is not a product for a hard parker and yes it costs money, it costs money to go fast all the time /the end.

Edit:

Your argument is also as valid as some random guy liking a ferrari but then dissing it for being too expensive. "man its too expensive i can make one for cheaper" and he goes on and on about how ferraris suck because they are so expensive and overpriced... so he goes and makes a fiat conversion to a ferrari with a v6 and slaps on some ferrari badges then even supercharges it or turbos it and calls it fast and goes "see my ferrari cost me cheaper"

Cmon get real...

This is what I meant by 240 owners being cheapasses. Guess how much a bbk kit for an r35 gtr costs? Over 10k. Now you can also go on about how you could build a cheaper better brake kit than is already on the r35 gtr. Great you go do that too.

Post by **Karateboy88** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:51 am

My argument is nothing like your Ferrari example. I'm not buying a "lesser rack" and calling it the same thing or putting "metaphorical stickers" on anything either. Do you not know how to read? I also never said this manual rack sucks. Unlike a Ferrari, with thousand of parts and millions of development, this manual steering rack is 60 year old technology. BTW F1 uses power steering

I never doubted the quality of the product. I never argued that "s*** doesn't cost money". I am doubting its cost/benefit and its guys (uneducated consumer?) like you that think more expensive always = better without thinking about the product.

And yes, anyone can built themselves one of these if they have a CNC machine and a welder. Just stop defending your purchase for a minute and think about what you're buying. They're a picture of it a few posts up if you don't know.

There is almost nothing simpler in mechanical design in the entire car and you want to spend a grand on one gear, some teeth, a plate, and a housing. This isn't about being cheap, this about not wasting you money on overpriced products.
Modified by Karateboy88 at 9:14 AM 8/14/2009

Post by **a_ahmed** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:16 am

Great you've made your point, now move along.

Sports cars of today also weigh almost 2 tons and sometimes more.

Also comparing a formula 1 power steering system to that of a s***box 240sx is a great analogy *sarcasm*.

I believe I've mentioned it already but if you're that much of a p**** with skeleton hands you could put an electric power steering system with a true manual rack and get benefit of both.

Also if you are still repeating the same myth that people who ran power racks with ps disconnected to this as you seem to be based on the way you are speaking (just because the feel is totally different), know that once the car gets moving its not much 'harder' than any ps powered car. The only time you'd ever feel any real extra effort is when standing still.

Anyways I don't care for your misinformed opinion and I'm still getting this. If you think it's too expensive then go build our 5000 CNC machine in an old mill and sell the 'same thing' for 500$

Post by **Bumnah** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:06 am

Yeah you can weld aluminum with MIG, but how thick? How cleanly?

Welding aluminum with MIG normally a second way of doing it. Most prefer to have a MIG and TIG welder.

I've welded aluminum with MIG, purchasing the accessories to make it possible brings your MIG welder close to $1000. Millers Econotig is around $1500 new. I'd much rather weld aluminum with TIG than MIG.

Big difference in reading and having hands on experience with anything.

$1000 for a custom made piece is actually reasonable.

Post by **Mangid** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:05 am

How do you do it?

Post by **Az24tsx** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:15 pm

I'd definitely be interested put me down

Post by **a_ahmed** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:00 pm

1. a_ahmed (me)2. Thomas (son240)3. Darth (son240)4. Tre240sx (son240)5. racepar1 (zilvia/nrr)6. asoomal (nico)7. noobdrftr (nico)8. legit240sx (nico)9. gnvarnadore (nico)10. DirtyGhettoKids (nico)11. Steve Lloyd (nico)12. eidk (nico)13. scooby305 (nico)14. Az24tsx (nico)15.16.17.18.19.20.etc...

Post by **Az24tsx** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:29 pm

But one thing that should be cleared up is how long they would take to make and ship out the racks

Post by **a_ahmed** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:59 pm

i will have that information as soon as i get a price quote which should be when all things are said and done through jon at atomic rex. I will wait for him to receive my rack...

Patience

Post by **barefoot mat** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:39 pm

how much hp would you think you would get by not having to turn p/s pump?

defintly interested. for my someday KA-T build.

Post by **Az24tsx** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:53 pm

No im f

a_ahmed wrote:i will have that information as soon as i get a price quote which should be when all things are said and done through jon at atomic rex. I will wait for him to receive my rack...

Patience

Haha im alright with waiting just letting ya know it might convince or sway some people from getting it

Post by **hbpignosePA** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:35 pm

barefoot mat wrote:how much hp would you think you would get by not having to turn p/s pump?

defintly interested. for my someday KA-T build.

its for the steering response more than to free up running the pump

Post by **Drifter262** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:42 pm

1. a_ahmed2. simmode13. asoomal4. noobdrftr5. eidk6. Drifter262

Im in desperate need of this the sooner the better.....1993 240sx. i will remove the old rack as soon as i hear from you seriously!

WARNING - Interest Check: Performance true manual rack

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