mattblancarte wrote:Honestly, I prefer to have power steering. I've encountered minor slips at speed without power steering, and the steering wheel is WAY harder to deal with...

If you're an experienced drifter or road racer, you will already know what you prefer. For the Average Joe's, this mod is not the best idea IMHO.

a_ahmed wrote:
This is not just a depowered or PS disconnected rack... I am trying to explain this. It's designed to be non-assisted and it is very responsive and with a shorter lock to lock easier to actually control i 'bad situations'.

Power or not, rally cars have extremely fast racks so you don't have to do a lot of man handling as you would in the same rally course as say a regular lock to lock rack.

There's alot of misconceptions and myths that have spread over the years over internet forums about 'manual racks' and 'depowered racks' etc...

It's not to be compared...

I now have about 250 miles on the car and will be able to dyno it next weekend. In putting on the miles, I have a few more observations on the rack. First, I still like it as much as at first. I keep saying how smooth and precise it is. Although it might seem like the change from 2.0 to 2.4 turns lock to lock might not make a lot of difference, it really does. It turns so fast that you cannot defocus from steering. If you glance over at something for a minute, you could end up off the road. It turns as fast as a Lotus Elise or Exige.

At speeds of 45-55 mph going straight, I have to concentrate a bit to keep it straight. Its not that it has any bump steer or follows the crown any more so than stock, but a slight movemebt of the wheel just takes it off the straight line. You or I anyway need to focus more. However, at 80-90 mph this is not an issue at all, though I can't tell you why that is.

Also, while it is very tight and smooth turning -- no slack anywhere ever -- and very precise, there is not harshness at all. There is a lot of road feel and reading of the road surface, but the solid mounts seem to eliminate any quick jarring or jolting entirely. I think any bushing would actually interject that jolting or jarring into the feel.

That's it for now. I may post an update in a few weeks, if I notice anything more. But, so far, I would strongly recommend this for anyone who likes the twisties or doesn't like the loose and strangely assisted stock unit. For anyone who has switched to looped line or Maval and likes it, this will be a tremendous swap from there. You'll go nuts.

DirtyGhettoKids wrote:Its hard to describe when you've never driven a manual rack. Put me on the interested list.

I'd like to thank Jon at AtomicRex for making this. First, Jon, the unit is beautifully made, and while I won't be driving the car until Saturday, I have turned the steering wheel both without any load and with the motor in it and can tell you that the precision feel of the rack is phenomenal. Its so much smoother turning than any version of the steering rack that I have felt, both powered and manual conversions, whether looped or true manual conversions like Maval. Its a completely different feel. Sure there's a little effort required, but its just so smooth and precise and virtually no play at all. And, because there's 2.4 turns lock-to-lock, its a LOT faster turning.

I will report on the steering feel and effort more over the weekend. I am wondering whether the solid and beautifully machined mounts (third variation, Jon?) will transmit too much road feel for street use. We'll have to see. But, I am sure that its the ultimate track set-up regardless. And, if there is too much feel for me, I'm certain some poly material could be inserted to dampen that anyway.

Summary is that so far this is one of the very best new things to come out that makes a real difference in our cars. The stock steering was one of the real weaknesses of the car that was reported in the press from day one and that we all have noticed. The stock assisted steering is a little dead and slow and has way less feel than you'd want in a car like this and that's why so many people convert to some form of manual, whether looped line or Maval. I had the looped line on my old car and have tried to order Quaife's "Quick Steer Gears", but they never actually made them. This unit provides the best of all worlds with both an incredibly well-made pure manual unit where the precision of the billet aluminum machined parts, especially the rack and gears themselves, are like a Swiss watch and turn much smoother than any conversion of the stock set-up, AND its also got the quicker turn ratio.

Let me comment on price, which is about $1000 unless we organize another group buy. I hear some guys saying that's a lot compared to a simple and free looped line conversion or even the Maval conversion at about $300-400. People readily spend $1500-4000+ for coilovers and $2500-6000 for big brake kits and $2000-4000 for wheels and tires and on and on. This is less money than any of those things and will give you a direct improvement you can feel and that will make way more of a difference to your driving experience than almost anything else you can do to your car. I'd invite anyone in my area over for a drive and will give drives at the Carlisi meet this August to as many people as I can. This is really a great change to the car. I can't say enough.

The rack is designed and manufactured by a company here in the uk, they have also design the steering racks for all of the caterham and westfields, as well as Radicals, A1 GP cars, and also do work for F1 cars.

I am happy they have designed this well enough to cope with the loads necessary. Also I have one that has run a full race season, and is still as fresh as the day it was put in

I dont think you need worry about the quality of the parts.

Pomanferrari... When I was originally discussing this with Jon, he told me about Radical using racks similar to this built by the same guys. I don't remember that Caterham used them as well. Dave Barninger at KD Rotary installed mine and he and I spent some time discussing it, looking at it, and playing with it. We concluded that it was a very well built rack and should have no issues. The redesigned mounting setup is especially heavy duty. I think I posted pictures of it. Instead of having a thin aluminum collar attaching the rack to the subframe there are very sturdy thick aluminum clamps that, unlike the collar, cannot move in any direction, because of the dovetailing of the two pieces together and onto the frame. The rack itself is CNC machined billet and therefore inherently much stronger than the stock unit. Its overkill from a stress perspective, buy the package ensures that the feel and precision is light years better than the stock or Maval units. As I said, I was particularly impressed with the smoothness of turning the wheel. There is no slack or play anywhere in the full rotation of the wheel lock to lock. Its very different.

I spent yesterday putting a few hundred miles on my car with the new rack and newly rebuilt 20b NA motor and new exhaust. The steering is phenomenal. There's a lot more feel than any manual conversion. I keep being impressed by how smooth and precise it is. Absolutely nothing like the normal steering. And the 2.4 turns lock to lock make turning instantaneous. No pushback or kickback going over anything including traversing road crowns. Might be the best thousand dollars I've spent.

Gordon

Str8ryd wrote:... I think it go perfectly with the rest of my car. Its very pleasant to drive. As I said, much, much quicker. Has that slightly "nervous", "quiveriing and ready" feel that older Porsches had at highway (70-90) speeds. Around backroad curves it turns like a Lotus Exige right now thank you.

Prometheus... I have gone over maybe two smaller potholes. No issues. And there is no backlash or kickback at all. When its absolutely dead stopped and you need to turn it, there's some effort. Once its rolling at all, there's no issue. Low speed maneuverability is fine. No one has mentioned any required maintenance and there are no fittings to "lube" it. Its just an old fashioned manual rack a la the 60's.

I don't know the ratio, but gave asked. Will report tomorrow. It is 2.4 turns lock to lock.

I love the unit. I have about 1000 miles on it and only love it. As I said before, there's a bit of effort at dead stop parking speeds, but way less effort than any conversion. It makes the car feel like a Lotus Exige. Much much different than stock or conversion. Turn in is way faster. You think it and it does it. Its like driving a bike. You have to stay very focused or you'd be in the weeds.

There is also a lot of feel, but as I think I said, no vibration at all. It mounts much more solidly than the stock rack and I think that causes the subframe to absorb a lot of little none road related vibration that came from the mounting.

Gordon

There's also a drift version in the works

GODCHSR wrote:$1000 is a waste of money.

These would have to be below $500 to even get me to start being interested personally.

a_ahmed wrote:
S chassis owners are f*en cheap asses, that's why real performance companies rarely make s*** for any of us.

Modified by a_ahmed at 11:42 AM 8/12/2009

Bumnah wrote:
And that it's an old and outdated platform.

a_ahmed wrote:
If you don't f*en understand the value of this, this is not for you at all, stick with megan racing and ebay parts.

Modified by a_ahmed at 11:42 AM 8/12/2009

a_ahmed wrote:
Go buy your megan racing s*** elsewhere.

If you don't f*en understand the value of this, this is not for you at all, stick with megan racing and ebay parts.

Modified by a_ahmed at 11:42 AM 8/12/2009

a_ahmed wrote:S chassis owners are f*en cheap asses, that's why real performance companies rarely make s*** for any of us.

a_ahmed wrote:
Don't be coming in here with silly comments like it's too expensive and useless for me. Well if it's too expensive and useless for you then don't buy it. Simple. I am trying to do people a favour as I know over the years people wanted this. I am buying it even if its gona cost me 1200$ at the end by myself. That's not a problem for me.

a_ahmed wrote:Honestly I felt insulted with someone expectin this sort of thing for 300$, you can forget buying it for that price. A remanned HICAS rack will cost more and I posted a link to frposrt for a remanned hicas. I paid close to that (until they increased price) for my remanned hicas.

As nice and dandy as that would be, it won't happen for 300$. We're definetely looking at 600$-1000$.

This is really for people who want the edge of performance and know what they are spending their money on.

Don't be coming in here with silly comments like it's too expensive and useless for me. Well if it's too expensive and useless for you then don't buy it. Simple. I am trying to do people a favour as I know over the years people wanted this. I am buying it even if its gona cost me 1200$ at the end by myself. That's not a problem for me.

My problem is the usual s chassis owner mentality of oh its a s*** box why spend money, oh its an old car, oh its too expensive.

It's the same reason I spent close to 3k on my koni setup vs 1k on a megan racing china setup.

That is all.