Installed EBC & 444cc, but car is running very shi**y, what could be wrong??

[JDMSIL80]

So I installed the new Blitz ID-color boost controller and GT-R 444cc injectors last night, hoping I could boost up safely along with my other mods.

Immediately I took the car out for a spin only to find my car is running much worse!!

The original boost pressure set by GT28R's wastegate is around 5-6psi, so I set the EBC at 7psi (~1psi increment each time) while monitoring my EGTs.

I pushed down the throttle and found the car shakes violently around 3500rpm, it sounds like mis-firing or the running way too rich so the ecu keeps cutting out around 3500rpm.

I had to let go of the throttle slightly to get the motor revving higher, but if I adjusted the boost any higher than 7psi, fuel would cut off on me early around 5000rpm.

So I tried lowering the boost to 4psi, the car runs a little better with less shaking and mis-firing. But still not nearly as smooth as before I installed these parts

Then I turned OFF the EBC, and the car runs still shakes and mis-fire at 3500rpm. At this point, I can nearly confirm that the injectors are causing me problems.

Prior to the installation of the EBC and injectors, I have these mods already in the car, and it ran perfectly smooth and stable:

Blitz Access tuned ecuBlitz gauges (boost/oil pres/EGT)GT28RWalboro 255FMICTurbo manifold3inch turbo-backHKS filterStock injectors & MAF

So what seems to be the problem?

Is it because of the stock MAF? I remember reading somewhere that stock MAF would run of breath at a certain boost level.

Or is it the problem of my ECU? since its only tuned for stock injectors and MAF?
Modified by JDMSIL80 at 7:11 AM 10/3/2005

[btustison]

the ecu is tuned for 370s you have 440s, your running rich, time for S-AFC

[sdtouge]

ya lol you need something to adjust for the bigger injecotrs.

[biosehnsucht]

440cc / 370cc = 20% too much fuel!

S-AFC can adjust for this, or get a new rom burned for it, OR just go standalone. those are basically your options.

[8ggalant]

u have got to be kidding me

[NeedCAforS13]

wow...

[c-rad]

wow...

I was gonna say something like these last two posts, but last time I did, my post got deleted.

JDMSIL80, dude, seriously, you need to take a step back from cars and learn more about them. You were making all these turbo threads and stuff asking which one to get and you don't even know the basics. Please stop before you hurt yourself or your car.

[NeedCAforS13]

I'm not trying to be negative, but dude, you need to either learn how to work on cars, or pay someone to do the work for you. Just throwing parts on the car and taking it for a test spin isn't going to cut it, and you'll end up damaging your engine. All those expensive parts don't add up to crap if you can't make them work together.

At least ask someone who knows about cars before you try something new. If you had come on here yesterday and said "Hey guys tomorrow I want to throw these 440cc injectors on, what do I need to make them run right?" I wouldn't have replied with "wow." I (or someone else) would have said, you need an SAFC or a ROM tune to let the ECU compensate for the extra fuel. I just don't understand how you can be willing to just go out and try something you obviously don't have a clue about. Hopefully you'll step back and think next time, or at least ask someone who knows to help you out.

Sean

[JDMSIL80]

First of all, sorry if my questions sounded too newbie to some of you. I was too frustrated this morning that I had to let it out.

Initially I wanted to set the boost up higher so that it could compensate the rich fuel Im running, that way I could bring the A/F ratio closer to optimal. Also, I thought the Blitz ecu I got was tuned for bigger injectors.

But I totally ignored the fact about the stock MAF sensor which restricted the air flow and boost.

I tried re-setting the ecu today and the car drives much better, it doesn't bog as much but still runs rich.

Also if I boost any higher than 7psi, the fuel/boost would cut out on me around 6000rpm.

Im getting myself the Z32 MAF tomorrow and hopefully it would allow me to boost higher so the car runs better.

[biosehnsucht]

1. once you realized the ECU was not tuned for the injectors you should have stopped, and gotten it retuned or got a S-AFC etc.

2. raising boost doesn't compensate for bigger injectors unless you're boosting so much as to be running out of fuel which means you can easily kill the motor

3. MAF can limit power but upgrading it won't fix the injector issue, you need to ECU retune or SAFC etc for EITHER or BOTH in any combination of those upgrades.

the cutout at 6000 could easily be MAF limitations but like I said you need ECU retune or SAFC for starters, just upgrading isn't going to fix it.

try to just use another MAF and the ECU will be so totally misled by its sensors as to risk killing the motor.

[JDMSIL80]

Thanks for your explanation.

I know what you mean, but at this point Im still unsure whether my ECU is tuned for stock or bigger injectors. I bought it from RHDJapan on ebay and they couldn't verify. As my car ran really sh**ty last night, I assumed the ecu was tuned for stock injectors.

But today as I reset the ecu, the car ran much better without hesitations like it did last night. Only trouble I have now is the boost cant set any higher than 7psi, or it would cut out at 6000 or lower.

If the bigger MAF doesn't cut it, SAFC is definitely next.

[NeedCAforS13]

what do you mean by "reset" the ECU?

the problem with buying a used tuned ECU is that you DON'T know what the previous user was running, so unless you match him exactly the car won't run correctly. Get an SAFC or retune the ROM or you won't ever get it to run right. That should be the #1 thing on your list man!

take what biosehnsucht says seriously, his explanations are spot on. you will kill your motor messing around with air and fuel if you have no way of monitoring and adjusting it. why risk it?

Sean

[JDMSIL80]

All I did was unplugged the ecu from the harness, this would erase all the settings that it previously had stored. You may also reset it by disconnecting the battery.

I will run the car with wideband monitor once my MAF is installed just to make sure, this way I will know exactly what A/F Im running.

I bought the new Blitz controller because it has wideband A/F monitor function. The optional wideband sensor is now on back ordered. Without it, SAFC won't be any good because I would be tunning in the dark.

[Not_a_sr]

ok just stop now!!! you really need to put the thing back to stock till you understand completely what you are doing!

you can not just throw in bigger injectors and up the boost to compensate.

you can not just throw on a z32 maf and up the boost to compensate.

you can not just throw in a unknown rom tune and up the boost to compensate.

if you are buying all blitz parts, like the new blitz sbc i color, then you must have a decent budget, what kills me is with this kinda budget your wasting it on incorrect parts (or just throwing parts at the car) but not understanding even the basics of what they will do or how they will fix your problems.

i highly suggest you get a new chip something setup for the maf and injectors you have. then start from there with a widebband.

[c-rad]

All I did was unplugged the ecu from the harness, this would erase all the settings that it previously had stored. You may also reset it by disconnecting the battery.

I will run the car with wideband monitor once my MAF is installed just to make sure, this way I will know exactly what A/F Im running.

I bought the new Blitz controller because it has wideband A/F monitor function. The optional wideband sensor is now on back ordered. Without it, SAFC won't be any good because I would be tunning in the dark.

Holy crap dude. Resetting the ECU is not going to erase the info on the eprom. You need to take the ECU out of the your car, open it up, REMOVE the eprom that is in there, and replace it with one that is programmed for 444cc injectors and whichever MAF you decide to go with.

[JDMSIL80]

But for whatever reason, after I reset the ecu, the car did run much better.Maybe this ecu has some sort of self adjusting ability everytime it reset? I dont know how to explain so that it makes a little more sense to you, but it really helped a lot and the car drives totally different from last night.

Holy crap dude. Resetting the ECU is not going to erase the info on the eprom. You need to take the ECU out of the your car, open it up, REMOVE the eprom that is in there, and replace it with one that is programmed for 444cc injectors and whichever MAF you decide to go with.

[nnkfws333]

But for whatever reason, after I reset the ecu, the car did run much better.Maybe this ecu has some sort of self adjusting ability everytime it reset? I dont know how to explain so that it makes a little more sense to you, but it really helped a lot and the car drives totally different from last night.

Crad and everyone else is right, your ecu cannot adjust itself when the ecu is already tuned for 370cc injectors. ECU's cannot rework themselves or it would be the Terminator age. If we could get ECU's to adjust themselves then man I would be speechless.

Example of an EPROM

[JDMSIL80]

Im still uncertain at this point whether my ECU is tuned for stock or bigger injectors. I know for the fact that it cannot be both, I will find out once put on the wideband and see what A/F Im running.

Crad and everyone else is right, your ecu cannot adjust itself when the ecu is already tuned for 370cc injectors. ECU's cannot rework themselves or it would be the Terminator age. If we could get ECU's to adjust themselves then man I would be speechless.

Example of an EPROM

[CA19DET]

calm down guys, whew

i too am pretty sure the Blitz ECU is tunned for Z32 AFM and probably 440's, T28 FMIC, jsut like most generic CA18DET JDM ecu's..

when you dissconnect the negative battery terminal it DOES reset the ECU from existing error codes etc, so if he had a AFM error and INjector error before, resetting it may now mean he only has a AFM error, and is maxing out/rinning in limp mode, really rich..

I agree with getting things done at a shop where someone knows what theya re doing, but at the same time, i fumble my way around my car too

getting teh Z32 AFM is the right move, i would either put back in the 370's till you get the Z32 AFM and can take it to a shop (or bit the bullet and put them in and see how it goes)

running rich like that will not kill the motor, once you are not out there trying to gun it, but you cant go driving around like that,

so put back what was working right and get all the parts needed together:

1) 440cc injectors2) Z32 AFM3) Blitz ECU3) S'AFC (optional but preferable in anycase as JDM fuel is 98+ octane)

try to get on a dyno or borrow a wideband and tune the car either with a fuel controller or adjustable regulator..

be carefull - gods' speed

[JDMSIL80]

Thank you so much for your advice! Finally someone who fully understand my situation

I picked up a blue label N60 Z32 MAF during lunch hour, gotta install it tonight and see what happens.

Cheers!

[WeldingHank]

blue label N60 isn't a Z32 MAF. All Z32 MAF's are red and N62. i just happen to have one for sale if your interested.

[JDMSIL80]

Dammit I got screwed by the junk yard!!

Just found out mine is actually from a RB20 or VG30, would it work just the same?

It looks identical to the Z32, there is one listed on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW

blue label N60 isn't a Z32 MAF. All Z32 MAF's are red and N62. i just happen to have one for sale if your interested.

Modified by JDMSIL80 at 4:45 PM 10/3/2005

[biosehnsucht]

N60 might be VG30 Maxima? not sure..there should be a part# on it, I could tell you what it's from.. in the form of XXXXX-XXXXX, not that it will really help fixing the car..

if it is in fact tuned for Z32 MAF and 444's or 440's or 450's whatever, getting that combo of parts would work.

Also, the ECU does have a limited ability to learn fuel trim compensation values in a limited area of the fuel map (basically the idle / part throttle cruise area), and resetting it would help it relearn faster those areas, but it can only learn to a certain extent..

of course we can't know what it's tuned for.. so this is all a guessing game as to whether it will magically work with a Z32 MAF. It might even be meant for 440ish range injectors and stock MAF, which would explain why it kind of works now after forcing it to unlearn the corrections it was using before..

getting a rom tuned for what you have is likely the best bet, and safest..

If I had a bunch of spare chips on hand I could burn you a copy of my rom, and mail it to you, which is set for DSM injectors (slightly bigger than yours so might run slightly leaner) and stock MAF.. but I have no spares as it is

That is of course if the rom in the blitz ECU is socketed..

[float_6969]

I think blitz sockets the ECU, but then they pour wax/wax-like substance over the eprom for whatever reason.

What about the UK chips? What are they charging for those? Sean's got one and seem pretty happy with it.

[NeedCAforS13]

I run a horsham developments one as does that canadian guy we both have his stage 2 chip.

blitz pours wax all over it so you can't pull the chip and make copies for all your friends!

Sean

[biosehnsucht]

humbug!

if its wax couldnt it be melted off?

[float_6969]

You'd have to be real careful. I'd be concerned about the board/eprom getting too hot when melting the wax off. I would personally probabally just cut if off enough to get the eprom out.

[mikehutch711]

I'm going to post in this thread instead of making a new one.I'm picking up 450cc DSM injectors tonite, and will install them soon.I have jwt tuned ecu, safc, s15 t28, maxima/z32 mafs (not sure which one)

What do i need to do to get the car running, short of going and getting it tuned. (I'll go get the car tuned after I do my exhaust upgrades)Do i need to set SAFC to -20% along the board, and less adjustment on higher up rpms?I know this is somewhat sketchy because I wont know my a/f mixture without a wideband O2.

Should I just wait till I get the car tuned before I put in the 450cc's ?

[JDMSIL80]

So I hooked up the N60 MAF (RB20/VG30) on the car yesterday, the car ran much smoother in the mid to high range and pulls harder with the same amount of boost. I thought the car is finally running great...................

However, now my car cannot hold idle!! It gets really rough fluctuating between 300-700 and gradually dies and stall!!!

I have to keep the throttle over 1300 in order to keep the motor from stalling. The car is barely streeteable because it may stall in the next light or stop sign. But once it gets going, its smooth and power is much better than stock MAF.

Im thinking if bringing the idle higher would solve the problem, but where is the idle control screw??

What is the appropriate modification I should do next? S-AFC maybe?

N60 might be VG30 Maxima? not sure..there should be a part# on it, I could tell you what it's from.. in the form of XXXXX-XXXXX, not that it will really help fixing the car..

if it is in fact tuned for Z32 MAF and 444's or 440's or 450's whatever, getting that combo of parts would work.

Also, the ECU does have a limited ability to learn fuel trim compensation values in a limited area of the fuel map (basically the idle / part throttle cruise area), and resetting it would help it relearn faster those areas, but it can only learn to a certain extent..

of course we can't know what it's tuned for.. so this is all a guessing game as to whether it will magically work with a Z32 MAF. It might even be meant for 440ish range injectors and stock MAF, which would explain why it kind of works now after forcing it to unlearn the corrections it was using before..

getting a rom tuned for what you have is likely the best bet, and safest..

If I had a bunch of spare chips on hand I could burn you a copy of my rom, and mail it to you, which is set for DSM injectors (slightly bigger than yours so might run slightly leaner) and stock MAF.. but I have no spares as it is

That is of course if the rom in the blitz ECU is socketed..

Modified by JDMSIL80 at 11:43 AM 10/4/2005

[biosehnsucht]

it's on the back of the idle control gizmo, attatched to the intake manifold...