I have to figure out this problem!

Discuss topics related to the CA18DE and CA18DET series engines.
Buddyworm
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float_6969 wrote:It's on the first page. He's put it back to stock trying to fix this issue. He's used a stock map Nistune and a stock ECU. He's gotten his idle issues sorted out, but he's still having stumbling issues under load.
Oh, gotcha.

Hard for me to follow what's going on. Seems like he was all over the place trying stuff back and forth.


cadet18
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So I'm still out for work at the moment. My plane broke and I'm stuck on the other side of the country right now. I do have a narrowband sensor in the stock location feeding to the ecu. It is reading lean as well at idle. I'm still planning on looking through the ignition system whenever I get back. I feel relatively confident that I have an issue there. I haven't given up yet!

cadet18
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went out for a drive today with the car. i put a hose clamp on the return fuel line to restrict it a bit and it doesnt seem to run as rich as before now. it will stay in the high 10's instead of maxed out at 10.0 (AFR). theres a little less bucking than before. i have changed between the ls coils and 2 sets of ca coils that i have with no difference. voltage and ground is good to both as far as wiring goes. im going to look into the fuel system a little bit more now. i cant see fuel pressure while driving so im not quite sure how thats going but i have another walbro laying around that i am going to swap in and i might get another FPR, i have the adjustable nismo one for now. its about 8 years old though. i didnt smell any gas in the vacuum line from the FPR so i dont think the diaphragm is dead, but maybe something else isnt acting quite right in there. i took a log today of a drive around if anyone is interested i can email it (i dont know how to upload a log here).

cadet18
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changed the fuel pump to my other walbro 255 and the surging issue as well as the pressure drop after key off seems to be gone. now i only have the erratic afr at idle and the rich accel. idle fluctuates between 13.2-17.5. i watched fuel pressure for awhile at idle and it is rock solid. im still kinda lost as to why its doing this. i had the car running and held a propane torch with the gas flowing out of it around all the intake area again today just as another way to look around for leaks. i had no idle change at all as a result of this. it isnt a consistent lean issue at idle either, it will be kindof steady around 13.2-15 for a bit then it will go between 13-17.5 back and forth for a bit. i cant think of what would cause this.

But hey! the surging and fuel pressure loss issue is fixed! i got something accomplished!

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float_6969
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Clamping the return line should increase fuel pressure. That should add MORE fuel, and make the rich problem worse, but you said you saw an improvement? That doesn't make sense.

Let me ask you this, if you ignore the AFR's and just focus on how the car is running, what do you think about it? How does it feel?

I've been suspecting something wrong with your wideband for a while. What brand is it? Can you re-calibrate it?

cadet18
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its an aem uego wideband ill look into recalibrating it. it runs smooth enough it just hits fuel cut quite quickly. any recommended brands for widebands? i know i hear people like innovate. and when pinching the return line a bit it seemed to make the surging get better. now that i have swapped fuel pumps the surging has gone away.

Buddyworm
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Post datalogs of your car hitting "fuel cut".

Fuel cut occurs when you hit a load value over the value defined for fuel cut in the ROM. I very much doubt you're moving enough air midway through the revband to hit fuel cut.

cadet18
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how do i post it up on here? i have it but i can only email it

Buddyworm
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You have PM cadet!

cadet18
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sent you an email buddyworm! Innovate LC-2 in enroute as well.

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float_6969
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How much boost are you running on the GT2860RS? Are you sure your BOV is staying shut? Since it's not recirculated and you have a MAFS, if it leaks under load, that will increase air flow through the MAFS, even though the boost level would stay the same.

cadet18
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i cant really be sure of that but i have checked it the best i could with the car sitting still. i have the wastegate set at 17psi. i also have a boost controller to keep it even further down if need be. im pretty sure its my MAFS maxing out when i hit the "fuel cut" as ive been calling it. i still dont understand the sweeping afrs at idle though. this points me away from the BOV but im open to anything being the cause. its one of the few components i havent changed yet. almost every other aspect of the engine have been tried with a spare by now. anyone know of any better ways i can check my BOV? ivetried propane, brake cleaner and pressurizing the intake. id really like to avoid buying more and more things. i feel like ived got a spare for almost every part on the engine now with no luck. the wideband im glad to get bc it will be a faster reading. the BOV is a Greddy type S (genuine)

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float_6969
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Holy s***! Yea, the ecu cuts out at about 12 psi on the stock turbo. You can't run more than about 7 psi with that turbo on the stock ecu.

And I don't understand what's bothering you about the sweeping afrs at idle? Just the range? They're supposed to sweep back and forth. There's been some disagreement about exactly how far they should sweep, but I'd there car idles well, I wouldn't worry about it.

cadet18
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yes. i dont like that it fluctuates that much at idle, almost 5 points seems extreme to me. sometimes it gets to the point where it almost stalls from being lean. it will hold idle but not like it should(it doessnt really stumble all the time, it just gets to the point where it will stumble until it recovers when it swings lean sometimes, and ive never heard a proper running car do that) . plus if the ecu cut out at 12 psi (7psi for my turbo) then why am i not lean before it hits the wall. it just doesnt add up to me. if the injectors arent capable of running that much boost then why am i rich when i am accelerating. My mind thinks the opposite should be happening here.

Hopefully this doesnt come across as argumentative, i am very appreciative of all the insight, i just want to understand it all.

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float_6969
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No, the idle should be rock solid, if it's stumbling, you still have a problem.

The cut is not because the injectors max out. It's because the ECU is programmed to cut timing when a certain voltage from the MAFS is reached. The whole point of it is to stop the engine and alert you there's a problem BEFORE the injectors max out.

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float_6969
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I also know that the stock tune is REALLY rich. I never had a wideband while I had a stock ECU, so I don't know exactly how rich though.

cadet18
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ok so talking to buddyworm we have found that the stock MAF was "we think" maxing out prematurely causing the rich condition. i have swapped to the z32 MAF and adjusted the base ca18det map to suit this and scaled the load index accordingly. Now i am seeing results that make sense to me. the car is much leaner into boost as i expected it to be and idle holds much smoother with 20inmg instead of 18. AFRs seem much steadier with a half point deviation from 15:1. I am scared to call it fixed as of yet bc of this cars history with me but we are definitely onto something. i believe the stock MAF had been acting up causing these issues. i am waiting for the car to cool down and i want to monitor AFRs through a full warm up cycle before coming to any more conclusions. fingers crossed we found the culprit!!! Thanks to everyone who has been apart of this up to this point!

Buddyworm
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float_6969 wrote:Holy s***! Yea, the ecu cuts out at about 12 psi on the stock turbo. You can't run more than about 7 psi with that turbo on the stock ecu.

And I don't understand what's bothering you about the sweeping afrs at idle? Just the range? They're supposed to sweep back and forth. There's been some disagreement about exactly how far they should sweep, but I'd there car idles well, I wouldn't worry about it.
He's only at part throttle there float. Like 1.5v on the TPS when he reaches the end of the TP scale. Full on 4.5v from the MAF at 3500rpm or so. You figure he's actually pumping that much air even at 12psi? I've run similar sized turbos to the 60RS and not had an issue like this...

The fuel cut he's been getting is the CA18 bug where it jumps back to the first load column if you run off the right side of the map.

cadet18
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Update on this... I now have the innovate installed and it is definitely faster reading for sure. I am getting about the same readings as the AEM so i guess that wasnt an issue at all but oh well, i upgraded. I also had the car running very well on the stock injectors/Z32 MAF. it pulled smooth with no cut out idled smooth, held a bit more vacuum and cruised at a constant AFR. This led me to think everything might be settled. Sooooo i put on the 440cc injectors from TLF performance that i got (said they were GTIR) set fuel pressure to the TLF specs for the injectors, started the car up with the 440cc tune and it ran like absolute crap. Super lean idle very choppy and when revved it would pop and it just didnt like to rev at all. The only thing that had changed was the injectors and obviously the tune. So i took the tune that it was running very well with and just did an injector resize along with the MAF change thinking maybe the tune was bad, but low and behold it still ran the same way... crappy. seeing that it was lean i put the stock injector Z32 MAF tune back on which was verified running great and it ran a little richer but still not where it should be and it still had all the same running symtoms. I have sent the injectors back to TLF who was very helpful on the phone to take the injectors back and have a look at them to see if anything was acting up. I think they should get there on monday. unfortunately im leaving on another work trip and wont be home but i should hopefully at least get some results from him. If anyone else has any ideas on something they think i might have overlooked here let me know please. i checked around the injector area for leaks(air or fuel) after install to find none. Im really hoping the injectors were just bad. Long story short my CA MAF seems to be dead and im suspecting my injectors that i bought might be as well. Ill be sure to update whenever i find out more here.

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float_6969
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For kicks, did you put the stock injectors back in with the Z32 MAFS and tune to see if it went back to running well?

cadet18
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i did. it it running well currently. im really hoping that the injectors are the problem here.

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float_6969
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I can't see how they couldn't be the problem. It sounds like maybe they mis-boxed the injectors (sent the wrong size).

cadet18
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^^^^ exactly my thoughts. fingers crossed!

cadet18
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Ive been doing some reading online and the reviews dont look too good for me on Tom Folder Performance. A lot of guys seemed to have gotten ripped off or just gotten a faulty product. I am starting to look for other injectors now that i am expecting to get the run around. I will let you guys know if things turn out badly. Now that i think of it i remember seeing the flow sheet (which i now cant find) claimed that all 4 injectors flowed exactly 440cc. Thats pretty unlikely that all 4 were spot on. Ive seen that 86 RX7 injectors should be the same basic setup (460cc low impedance) and have found i can get reman ones from advance auto shipped to the house for $165 for all four. i will most likely go this route if i have to. Advance would be much easier to deal with.

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float_6969
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Yea, I get all of my injectors from Deatchwerks. They're great to work with and the injectors come in matched sets. It's basically impossible to get 4 injectors that all flow exactly 440cc's. That's pretty suspect. Deatchwerks has CA specific injectors up to 1200cc's. I have used their 550cc and 1200cc on my CA, as well as 550cc injectors on an SR and a KA. All worked flawlessly and installed just like stock.

cadet18
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i have a set of their 800s but i have the tune for 440s so id really like to stick with 440s. i looked at them again last night and they didnt have 440s

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float_6969
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I'll bet they have 440's that'll work, they just don't have them listed. I would email or call them.

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Izento
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I'm using the 800cc Deatschwerk injectors and they work great.

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float_6969 wrote:I also know that the stock tune is REALLY rich. I never had a wideband while I had a stock ECU, so I don't know exactly how rich though.
Can confirm stock tune is very rich. I was seeing around 10.2:1 at WOT.

Ill second/third Deatchwerks. Great customer service.

cadet18
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confirmed. injectors are trash.
the resistance test came out at 4.7:5.5:4.3:4.2.
i had one injector as low as 280cc one as high as 390. none of them achieved 440cc like they were supposed to be.

heres a link to the spray pattern test.

https://youtu.be/Zt3Yq40gQtI

i called TLF at the shop i took the injectors to for the spray test (they never made it back to TLF, i had the wrong address i guess so they were returned to me) he asked if i put them in my car :gotme of course i did thats what you do with injectors. he thinks i may have gotten trash in them and assured me they were tested 3 times before going out the door. im going to give him the benifit of the doubt and send them back to him to give him a chance to rectify the situation but i have bought 86 rx7 NA injectors from advance so i cant be burned by them they should be here soon. im expecting to get screwed over by TLF by his psat reputation i discovered on the internet reviews but who knows. Im not going to badmouth him until ive been given reason too. Please dont comment on the youtube video with anything identifying his company until he has had a chance to redeem himself. figured i would post it up here for you guys to avoid this from happening to you. I do know that i have 2 good sets of factory 370cc injectors now if anyone needs one hah


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