How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34

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How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34

Postby Reds12t » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:13 am



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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (Reds12t)

Postby UpStar » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:15 pm

5 star thread! Put a sticky on it.

Alright....so to be clear you added the 3/8" hose plugs to eliminate the oil consumption.

nice info and pic


Modified by UpStar at 4:24 PM 12/12/2009

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (Reds12t)

Postby mcrews » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:28 pm

Red,that's exactly where i put my catch can:



I will probably get some longer vaccuum line and run it in the space nearer the battery


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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (UpStar)

Postby Reds12t » Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:36 pm

UpStar wrote:5 star thread! Put a sticky on it.

Alright....so to be clear you added the 3/8" hose plugs to eliminate the oil consumption.

nice info and pic
Yes that is correct 3/8" hose plugs, but you will want to install a catch can. We really need to put together a detailed FAQ for the Y34.
mcrews wrote:Red,that's exactly where i put my catch can. I will probably get some longer vaccuum line and run it in the space nearer the battery.


Yours looks really nice! That is what I plan on doing. And I was under the illusion I was the first to do this, lol!
Modified by Reds12t at 8:32 PM 12/12/2009

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (Reds12t)

Postby ken in az » Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:52 pm

Reds12t wrote:I mentioned that I stopped my oil consumption in my other thread, and was asked to do a quick write up on how I did it. But, first a quick back story. After buying my car, I signed up for Nicoclub to learn more about my 2003 M45. After reading all the stories about oil consumption and engine replacement, I worried that I may have made a mistake buying this car, I even considered selling it. Especially since it would puff blue smoke at start up.

However, after a few tests, I found the problem to be the valve cover vents, which are vented to a vacuum port right behind the throttle body. It sucks the oil right out of the valve covers and into the intake manifold, causing oil consumption and puffs of blue smoke at startup.



Notice mine are plugged with 3/8" hose plugs, while I have not had any issues with them being plugged, the plugs are temporary, I will be putting in a catch can or Air/Oil Separator. It did this well over a month ago, and have not had any oil consumption or blue smoke on start up!

If you have an M45, go do this now!

Modified by Reds12t at 1:19 PM 12/12/2009
I highly don't recomend doing this!

The system is called PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) for a reason. It is a vent for pressure. You plugged up only one side of the "vent" so now you have only one channel for the pressure to go through.

Reapeated use will lead to blown crankshaft oil seals and or oil leaks to any external source due to the inability for the crankcase to ventalate pressure.

Another reason is that the PCV system utilizes "metered" air that has already passed through the MAF sensor. What you've done now is created a potential for "un-metered" air to enter the airstream causing a potential lean condition.

I would get a catch can installed pronto if I were you.

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (ken in az)

Postby Reds12t » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:22 pm

ken in az wrote:
I highly don't recomend doing this!

The system is called PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) for a reason. It is a vent for pressure. You plugged up only one side of the "vent" so now you have only one channel for the pressure to go through.

Reapeated use will lead to blown crankshaft oil seals and or oil leaks to any external source due to the inability for the crankcase to ventalate pressure.

Another reason is that the PCV system utilizes "metered" air that has already passed through the MAF sensor. What you've done now is created a potential for "un-metered" air to enter the airstream causing a potential lean condition.

I would get a catch can installed pronto if I were you.
My understanding is a little poor in this area, thank you for the clarification. I assumed that since the valve covers are still connected and vented through the PCV system that plugging the second vent on the valve covers would not be an issue. I have edited my original post with instructions to not plug the hose.

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (Reds12t)

Postby DRIPS » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:17 pm

Sick This is what I needed. Thank you. Can you detail all the parts you needed to purchase (length and diameter of tubes, knuckel connectors, catch can?). Also, where did you buy and how much were all these parts?

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (Reds12t)

Postby Double E » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:22 pm

Um...thanks Ken.

I wondered about this talk of sealing of the ventilation system altogether. Valve covers have been engineered to atmospherically vent for a half decade as I understand it. Here's the theory of operation for ours since we can't just open the vent to the atmosphere anymore:

zerothread?id=441643

Speakin of which, y'all did see my thread on this already right?

zer...rning

I like what mcrews did too. Appears very easy to service too and I like the lower positioning his has in relation to the VCs. My version only looks a little cleaner and is probably just as effective.

I cleaned out a teaspoon or stoday after 1000 miles since the seperator was installed. It requires me take the throttle cable assembly off (2 10mm bolts) and I just pull the sepeator away from the intake nipple to unscrew & empty.

I also added back in the internal medium filtering device when I did ...as I was observing oil "crawling" up the intake side of the bowl even while it was at idle.

My routine at start-up puff of smoke is gone these days....
Modified by Double E at 1:35 AM 12/13/2009

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (Dou

Postby Reds12t » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:38 pm

Y'all did see my thread on this already right?

zer...rning

I cleaned out a teaspoon today after 1000 miles with the seperator installed. I added back the internal medium device when I did as I was observing oil "crawling" up the intake side of the glass even while it was at idle.

My routine at start-up puff of smoke is gone these days....
Well I am late to the party with my post, and Double E yours is much more informative, the install looks clean We should get that post as a sticky

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (Reds12t)

Postby mcrews » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:05 am

Reds12t wrote:
Well I am late to the party with my post, and Double E yours is much more informative, the install looks clean We should get that post as a sticky
Reds,you may be late but you are a great poster. Very few noobs come in so well versed!

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (mcrews)

Postby DRIPS » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:53 am

mcrews wrote:Red,that's exactly where i put my catch can:



I will probably get some longer vaccuum line and run it in the space nearer the battery
Looks like a lot of oil in there! How many miles is that since it was empty? So I need the Jegs catch, two pieces of 3/8 inch rubber tube, 2 90 degree elbows for 3/8 inch tube. Anything else? I am going to order these parts.

Also, I dont want to have to remove the cover every time I want to check/drain this thing. How far away can I mount this and still have it be effective? Is extending the amount of line between the PCV and TB not good? Do I need to keep this overall lower than the TB for it to be effective?
Modified by DRIPS at 2:27 PM 12/13/2009

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (DRIPS)

Postby mcrews » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:05 pm

You can move it over near the battery side.I took a pic of a pepper grinder as an example. the elbows come with the JEGGS kit.PVC/Vaccuum hose will hold up just fine over that length.There is'nt that much oil in my pic. it's at an angle.I check it about every 2 weeks or so.


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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (mcrews)

Postby Double E » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:22 am

Mine only came with straight connectors.

I don't think the addition of a foot or so of tubing will have any negative effect. It's just air moving and as long as it isn't obstructed, it's working.

As far as the engine cover goes, I took mine off & left it off a long time ago. Installed, it prevents me from finding issues before they become problems and I'd rather see the engine than a decorative cover anyday. I just put it in the attic.

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (Double E)

Postby DRIPS » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:01 pm

I just bought a Steeda Oil catch just like the Jeggs. I paid 15 bucks for it on Ebay. I recommend ebay as a choice for anyone interested in this mod. There are tons available if you search for Oil Catch or PCV Oil Catch or Oil separator.

Anyway, I will buy some longer hose and mount it in a nice spot. Ill take pics for yall when done. Thanks so much for all the info. I learned a lot about the PCV system

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (DRIPS)

Postby iwantyourcar » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:24 pm

nice pickup, I have the Jegs, but have yet to install it. Have been to busy and it has been to cold. The info here has been great I appreciate it too.

someone should to a step by step write up with all the cumulative details and pictures, the diagrams that already exist are a big help though!

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (iwantyourcar)

Postby 1scott » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:49 pm

Please help me understand how this stops the oil consumption from a basic engineering stand point. I am not educated on these catch cans.

My original engine was consuming around 1qt/1000miles. If this device catches the oil, will one quart end up in to the catch within the 1000miles. This would mean I would have to empty ever week or so. Or does it draw oil back into the valve covers instead of the intake? Or does it do a better job of filtering the valve covers so less oil is removed.

I can understand how it stops the smoke on start up, no oil intake so no burn. These are great pics and it seams like a real easy fix, maybe only an hour or so work.

Thanks for the info.


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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (1scott)

Postby qship96 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:28 pm

A "catch can" does nothing to change oil burning due to oil getting past piston rings into combustion chamber- a common source of oil burning on the VK series motors due to low tension rings used to increase horsepower.

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (qship96)

Postby Double E » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:45 am

+1 True on the catch can not being the final solution.

The PCV system is allowing a small portion into the intake without the mod...relative to the amount getting in by (what I also suspect is) the low friction pistion rings.

If properly installed, it allows no oil in through the PCV system and you end up with a tablespoon or so per 1000 miles in my experience.

The catch can is a valid mod, but does not completely solve oil consumption.

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (Double E)

Postby szh » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:36 am

May not help the oil consumption problem (which I also think is due to getting by the rings) I think the oil catch can will reduce the oil that gets onto the valves from the intake side. This may well reduce/prevent the build-up of carbon deposits and reduce/eliminate the "startup clatter" problem that occasionally occurs.

At least, this is my hope.

I plan to get and install an oil catch can sometime in the near future ... when I find some time.

Z

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (szh

Postby IWINULUZ » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:32 pm

checked my oil today and im seriously worried i will be doing the modification found on wiki that i have been referencing in the next couple days. i think it will actually solve the issue based on the set-up running dual pcv's and dual in line filters. i would imagine that the info was added by an infiniti tech that figured it out.
wiki wrote: Warning to all those who own this engine** All VK45de engine consume oil. The PCV-positive crank case ventilation passages in the valve covers are not designed correctly and flow too much, thus allowing large amounts of oil into the intake system. This will cause puffs of blue and white smoke after cold starts! In lack of attention this condition will cause low oil level, which in turn results in worn cylinder rings causing excessive blow-by gases. The engine will eventually develop low compression in the rear most cylinders first. To easily confirm this condition- remove the intake duct from the throttle chamber and open the throttle flap manually. Large amounts of oil residue will be seen, as well as oil pooling in the back of the intake manifold plenum... Nissan and Infiniti are not stepping up to the plate although this is a know issue. They are putting the blame on the customers lack of service. Record all service data and present your case to a dealer. Under proper service the engine will be replace under full warranty it the vehicle is within the time and mileage limit...

If you are mechanically savvy you can fix this problem. Remove the fresh air hose, and both pcv valve hoses. Install a second pcv valve inline with the factory one using acrylic hose. then install an inline moisture filter (like the ones used with automotive paint sprayers) inline on all three hose. The moisture filters will need to be replaced in combination with your yearly service. For disposable inline filters see any automotive paint or most parts stores.

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (IWINULUZ)

Postby ken in az » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:23 pm

Everyone claims that the VK45DE has low tension rings on the pistons that cause this "Oil Consumption" issue but I think that there is more to the equasion than just that.

The question was asked "please describe how the catch can works from an engineering standpoint to prevent oil consumption?"

Well, here it goes thrown in with a little Ken in AZ theory at the end.....

If you notice the line that is going into the intake manifold in these pictures you will see that it is located behind the throttle plate with reference to the airflow. This area of the intake manifold can see as much as 20inches of vacuum at idle and nearly 26-28inches under closed throttle decell. This is quite a bit of force to put on the crankcase. I said force because what is happening is the higher pressure "atmosphere" will force it's way into the crankcase system via the other crankcase vent tube - which is why it is larger than the other side of the system - which will pass by all the vital engine parts coated with oil including the oil pan which contains a pool of hot oil. On it's journey the airflow will pick up moisture and oil mist and heat traveling in a gaseos state up and out the other crankcase vent tube till it finally hits the intake plenum. This is where the heated air will have an opportunity to expand and cool condensing it's moisture content wich is mostly oil in the intake manifold resting on the walls of the plenum and intake valves.

This is where my theory comes into play so please keep an open mind.....

Starting from the beginning of the engines life it runs great. Rings seat, great compression, good power and everyone is happy. Then comes along this pesky oil vapor from the PCV system and at first it is not really an issue and the combustion chambers are easily able to handle this added foreign material as the engineers designed. Still everyone is happy....until the problems start to happen with the mother of all destroyers shows her ugly face.....TIME!

Over time and depending on how the engine was treated in regards to how the vehicle was driven, oil change interval, what oil was used, what oil filters were used, climate, etc... slowly the killer starts his stride. With the dirtier oil contamination is now affecting those "low tention piston rings" by layering deposits on and behind the ringlands of the piston. Because of the low tension design of the ring it now has less of an ability to control the blowby gasses from combustion and also the oil from the oiling system bathing the walls of the cylinder from seaping into the combustion chamber. This accelerates the deposits formed on the rings making it harder and harder for them to seat on warm-up. This also accelerates "OIL CONSUMPTION" making the aformentioned problems with the rings accelerate more due to the increased heat in the oil because of the lowered capacity of the system.

That is what I beleive is the cause of this dreaded oil consumption issue everyone is having and before anyone throws a fit....this can happen unbeknownst to you even if you follow dealer recomended oil change intervals and dealer sourced oil. It an also happen even if you follow your on regimen using quality oils. Oil quality and filter quality has changed and could vary quite a bit even when dealing with the same brand and type.

How can the catch can help when it seems I'm too far gone? Easy....it stops the contamination from the topside. Start using quality oils and filters that far exceed OEM specs and don't rely on SAE documentation saying it met there standards....Yeah - it met their LOWEST standards to pass. How would you like it if you knew your surgeon got the lowest score possible in anatomy just before you were rolled into surgery!

Amsoil, Royal Purple, Redline, Mobile 1(be carefule with mobile1 as there are many different brands to choose from), are all great choices. Choosing these oils will last longer and reduce engine wear but will also help clean your engine internals to reduce the contamination further.

Lastly, and the most common mistake made....is Fuel choice. I found this out myself recently. No I'm not talking about what grade of fuel like 87, 89, 91octane etc.. but what station you fill up from. I had been using what I thought was a good gasoline, turns out I had some terrible carbon deposits. You should be OK if you are using fuel from a top teir fuel station, but if you need some extra help run a few tankfulls of Chrevron Techron or Shell V-Power. Only those 2 fuels contain the PEA additive proven to remove carbon deposits from the fuel system and combustion chamber. For serious problems use the Techron Concentrate to assist.

I can nearly guarontee that your oil consuption problem will lessen with time unless there is another unknown issue happening.

Best of luck...and I'm outta here!

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (qship96)

Postby SteveTheTech » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:29 pm

qship96 wrote:A "catch can" does nothing to change oil burning due to oil getting past piston rings into combustion chamber- a common source of oil burning on the VK series motors due to low tension rings used to increase horsepower.
However none of the engines that have been replaced showed signed of cylinder leakdown or lowered compression. Since Ken in AZ illustrated this people are finally starting to realize that replacing long block will do nothing if the oil is being sucked through the valve covers and intake manifold. Your information is slightly off in this case.

Ken makes a several great points good stuff as always.

I agree although until I see some compression ratio numbers and or a failed leak down test I am a firm believer these cars have never had real consumption issues like Northstar motors. It is easy to prove the where the oil is going but still some people will argue with you. Pull the pcv line off and look in there I bet the owners of VKs will see some oil. I'll bet you a beer that if you pull the intake there will actually be oil in there, not allot just a little. All the engines I have ever taken apart where dirty but the amount of filth are different.

For as long as I have been here I have championed the most underperformed maintenance items is removing and cleaning the intake manifolds. Doing a BG flush is just a bad idea if there is oil deposited in the intake as burning such a quantity of oil like that will destroy the cats instantly. The gasket is pretty cheap and it only takes about an hour to R&I the plenum and clean it completely. If you need a decent weekend project that's always a good one. Just remember never touch the throttle plate.

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (qship96)

Postby IWINULUZ » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:04 pm

What actually BLOWS the engines? if someone could tell me that i could come up with an actual resolve to the issue.

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (IWINULUZ)

Postby SteveTheTech » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:13 am

qship- as usual you seem to have no idea what is going on around you. Go back to the dinosaur forum and stop causing trouble over here.

The engine doesn't usually "blow" as we would think of it. What happens is they are often neglected to the point of permanent damage.

-Note- I removed the Off Topic Shenanigans that are out of place here.

Back to the matter at hand.

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (qship96)

Postby ken in az » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:48 pm

qship96 wrote:Yeah Steve, I thought I knew everything when I was 26 years old too........ even had 2 college degrees by then,and you?
I think he might know a few more things than you do when it comes to working on automobiles. Just a hunch, but not just anyone get hired as a factory tech at an infiniti dealership.

Where'd those 2 degree's get you if you don't mind me asking...or will this land a personal insult my way too?

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (ken in az)

Postby qship96 » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:59 pm

I only return personal insults.......never serve them,even cold. now, back to the issue of oil consumption{ which matters GREATLY to me,as I will be in the market for a new car in the next year or so,and I had every intention to stay in the Infiniti brand}

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (qship96)

Postby 1scott » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:17 pm

Steve the Tech, I know you said to keep pouring oil in my motor and not worry about it. What made me push for a new engine was the puffs of smoke wverytime I opened the throttle up. My old engine had to be weaker than a new one, my car was much slower. Either low compression or the oil burn was lowering my octane, it was noticeable. I looked over my new engine and found the original intake to have pooled oil, around table spoon sitting against the throttle plate and the throttle plate was gooey. I had it chemically cleaned at a shop. I wiped off the pooled oil and wiped the throttle plate clean. I did not move it but did touch it, what can happen? The car runs real good now, it is quieter also, not a figment of having a new engine, I can hear the Goodyears rumbling like my wheel bearings are shot. Also what is BG? Thanks for the advise. Can or would you do this modification and will it effect the warranty if done?

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (1scott)

Postby SteveTheTech » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:04 pm

1scott- I don't know the complete history of your car but there is a chance that something went wrong. However what I should have said from the beginning is this might not be as widespread as everyone thinks, or widespread enough for the company to officially do something about it. Since they are not putting allot of thought into non safety related concerns on out of warranty models. To play devils advocate for a second, they just cannot afford to. However as seen with the VQ35hr in the G with a manual transmission if there is any common issue they will do whatever is needed to make it right.

I really think your case might have been a worse case scenario, and although it seems like it could be the pcv there is a good chance it could have been a freak mechanical problem. Unfortunately not being to see your car all I can do make a general statement going off basics and your description. However more often than not one thing that happens is people read about the worse case and think that is the standard.

If your engine has been replaced then you should not have an issue. However there are some people here who have noticed oil level drops with new engines. It is hard to make the majority of this information unique to the car and owner so many of these things run together.

Qship- If you want to continue this please stick to your new thread. ( zerothread/467941 ). However I'll play, by 25 I was an Infiniti Master and had a place in the Watergate all with no debt. ps- if you respond with just bs save yourself the time as they will be moved to the appropriate location.


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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (SteveTheTech)

Postby qship96 » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:48 pm

Must have spent 75% of your take-home pay on rent!!!!!

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Re: How To Stop Oil Consumption on Your '03/'04 M45/Y34 (qship96)

Postby IWINULUZ » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:10 pm

has anyone actually performed a compression test to a what is considered "bad" motor with Oil Consumption issues ?

I mean as elementary as it sounds you MIGHT be able to conduct a fuel induction service or even a seafoam treatment through the vacuum lines and resolves what damage from over oil has caused. Infiniti tech buddy of mine says that Infiniti claims that there is a difference in the short blocks when they replace them although upon numerous and thorough inspections they see no differences in the block design.

But they say its the rings that go bad. so if it is the rings then why change block design unless you were modifying oil galleries.

im rambling but just trying to understand this. and with everyone this has happened to you would think that there would be some guaranteed fix or atleast a solid diagnosis.


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