How To: 5 Speed Swap in Convertibles (and other S13s)

The Internet's ONLY forum for 240sx convertible information and the official home of the 240sx Convertible Club of America!
User avatar
toptechracing
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:46 pm
Car: 98 240sx race car/ 93 convert

Post

Quote »so economy and power will suffer slightly at higher speeds[/quote]And we know this will effect power how?


User avatar
TrunkMonkey
Posts: 3529
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
Car: 2000 lincoln navigator

Post

Jarret wrote:As for US DOT charts, they are not always correct on the fuel stats. Since I have 3 240sx's I can vouch for the auto being better on mileage on hwy and the std is better in the city. why:- travelling 100 miles on the hwy with the cruise on up to my cottage or from vacation to vacation, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make the conclusion: ( same speed, less rpm, less rpm, less gas used= better mileage).Try it out for yourself, go on a trip with the O/D off and come back home with it on.-the std is better on city driving b/c it can always be dropped into neutral coming down a hill (wheels are spinning separate from the engine)and at a light, and thusly the engine isn't working to move the car when the brakes are holding it put.

-Jarret
i've owned 2 240s. regardless of highway or city driving, my 5 speed fastback got better gas mileage than my auto convertible.

i travel a lot, and it's been like that with all the cars i've owned. i've always gotten better gas mileage with manual transmission cars.

-demetrius

Jarret
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 7:00 pm

Post

well since the speed sensor wont be plugged in at the tranny as well, the engine will be getting the wrong fuel air mixture and timing information by the ECU. It doesn't mean the car won't run, it just means the ratio's will be off because the engine isn't getting the input from the 4th or 5th pos. sensor.-so hence, poor mileage and less performance.

-Jarret

User avatar
toptechracing
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:46 pm
Car: 98 240sx race car/ 93 convert

Post

Jarret wrote:well since the speed sensor wont be plugged in at the tranny as well, the engine will be getting the wrong fuel air mixture and timing information by the ECU. It doesn't mean the car won't run, it just means the ratio's will be off because the engine isn't getting the input from the 4th or 5th pos. sensor.-so hence, poor mileage and less performance.

-Jarret
Well the speed sensor is used and the speedo works. The performance milage issue is wrong. The ECU looks at A/F (O2) Air intake and temp (MAF and manifold temp) Engine temp and throttle position. The 4th 5th sensors are if I remember correct used to engage the speed limiter which we dont care about. I have already had this car to 120MPH with no performance issues. Codes I will agree will be set but the ECU has many loops to work with if it does not see those sensors. I believe when I reprog the ECU I can just write those values out of the loop.

User avatar
JXN
Posts: 981
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:38 pm
Car: Nissan 240sx S13 hatch
Contact:

Post

hey guys, Im TRYing to do my swap on my vert. but im stressin' about not having all the parts necessary for a one day job.

A few quick questions...on the clutch pipings, there are little "holders" between where the hoses connect, do i have to buy them from Nissan? and there is 3 lines, one LONG hard line, one rubber line that connects to the slave, and one BETWEEN...Im having trouble locating THAT line, so i was wondering if I can substitute that line with something else?


Big_Daddy_Johnsen
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:42 am

Post

Is there anything special that needs to be done to get the cruise control to work? I have a convertible with an SR20DET that's crazy fast but I'd like cruise. The light comes on but it never sets the speed. Ideas?

User avatar
toptechracing
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:46 pm
Car: 98 240sx race car/ 93 convert

Post

I have just started looking at this also. My guess is we need to close a circuit with the 5th gear switch that indicates the tranny is in drive the tough part may be that we alreay closed the park loop for the top to work.

User avatar
Hijacker
Posts: 15759
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:57 am
Car: '92 240sx Convertible
'94 F-150
Location: Fredericksburg, VA

Post

I've spent a week or so seriously troubleshooting the cruise control. It's a tough system to trick. The problem is that the ATU and the ASCD are connected by two wires. One wire is a constant voltage, so I believe the other is a ground. When the car is in drive, it completes the ground for the ASCD and allows it to work. I tried to complete the ground, but it didn't work.

Also, there's a relay on the driver side engine bay fusebox that completes the ASCD cancel circuit when the car is in park. I pulled the relay, and the cruise still didn't work. I, however, didn't have the inhibitor drive wire jumpered, nor did I have the ASCD box grounded when I tried that.

The last combination I didn't get to try before the car left my hands was to jumper the drive wire, pull the inhibitor relay, and ground the ASCD box. I'm thinking of setting the ASCD up on my car and trying it out on mine. That way I can have some leasure time trying to make it work.

Big_Daddy_Johnsen
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:42 am

Post

Hey there J! The car left your hands and came into mine. 93 sr20

User avatar
Hijacker
Posts: 15759
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:57 am
Car: '92 240sx Convertible
'94 F-150
Location: Fredericksburg, VA

Post

I'm Bart. I helped Jay with the swap. If you need anything, hit me up on AIM, or email me [email protected]

AustinSilvia
Posts: 577
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:06 am
Car: CARS, nissans sr20det ftw!

Post

this should be a sticky in the TECHNICAL section of this forum, oh and what is your AIM name (just incase I have some problems working on my swap, tee hee)

ca18datsun510
Posts: 2050
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 7:28 pm
Car: bmw 330i zhp, 91 infiniti m30, 89 240sx, 07 zx6r, 05 trx450r
Contact:

Post

Jarret wrote: Another word of note to those interested in the swap, the transmission for the 240sx autos went into the frontier truck as well an have a hugely gripping flexplate, consider a flywheel upgrade and leave it at that. Keep in mind the 240 auto has better passing at highway speeds than the 5spd and runs 4-500 rpm lower at 75 MPH = better fuel economy!

Hope that helps!

_Jarret

1994 LE
what are you trying to say here?

oh, and my box is orange, not green. ha ha im more jdm mad tyte yo.

User avatar
maxima278
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:51 pm
Car: 96 240SX SR20, 69 Ford Pickup, 99 Dodge Ram 1500, 1996 Nissan Maxima, 1997 Nissan Maxima project, 89 Coupe shell

Post

I'm in the process of doing this swap on a 96 S14, using a 95 manual shift car as a donor. Can anyone tell me how it differs from s13 to s14? it appears that my 'green' box where the clutch should be is just plain steel and my wiring on the passenger side doesn't seem to look the same as in your pictures. Is it any different?

I am replacing the engine and tranny wiring harness and all, so the fuse box under the hood will be out of the manual shift car if that makes a difference. My automatic car was burned under the hood and all the wiring harness melted.

Are the ECU's different? should I pop in the ECU from the manual shift car?

This is my first major mechanical endeavor so any advice would be great. I've got a parts car and some tools but not a whole lot of know how.

Thanks

Mr. Foully
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 6:26 pm

Post

Esteemed Mr. Akito, thank you for your work in this matter. I did the swap last year and spent the summer with a manual top.

I can't wait to employ your advice.

And what's with this Big Daddy Johnson character? There CAN'T be another stick/vert in WI!!!

User avatar
Hijacker
Posts: 15759
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:57 am
Car: '92 240sx Convertible
'94 F-150
Location: Fredericksburg, VA

Post

maxima278 wrote:I'm in the process of doing this swap on a 96 S14, using a 95 manual shift car as a donor. Can anyone tell me how it differs from s13 to s14? it appears that my 'green' box where the clutch should be is just plain steel and my wiring on the passenger side doesn't seem to look the same as in your pictures. Is it any different?

I am replacing the engine and tranny wiring harness and all, so the fuse box under the hood will be out of the manual shift car if that makes a difference. My automatic car was burned under the hood and all the wiring harness melted.

Are the ECU's different? should I pop in the ECU from the manual shift car?

This is my first major mechanical endeavor so any advice would be great. I've got a parts car and some tools but not a whole lot of know how.

Thanks
http://www.240sx.org/links/ins...p.htm has the full write up on the S14 manual conversion.

User avatar
Eikon
Posts: 11036
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:20 am
Car: 71 240z, 93 Supra TT
Location: Lake Orion, MI
Contact:

Post

Mr. Foully wrote:
And what's with this Big Daddy Johnson character? There CAN'T be another stick/vert in WI!!!
I also have a 'vert with a manual tranny. I have an RB20det with 5 speed in Green Bay.

User avatar
maxima278
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:51 pm
Car: 96 240SX SR20, 69 Ford Pickup, 99 Dodge Ram 1500, 1996 Nissan Maxima, 1997 Nissan Maxima project, 89 Coupe shell

Post

How well do you like that RB20det? I'm just wondering how all the engines stack up to one another. I'm currently considering turbocharging a KA24de as a cheap alternative but I'd like to know which engine is most satisfying for the money

tenkawa- thanks for the link!

User avatar
den240
Posts: 240
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:11 pm
Car: 92 ca18det cnvt

Post

Bart, did you ever get the ASCD working on your swapped 5speed?

User avatar
Eikon
Posts: 11036
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:20 am
Car: 71 240z, 93 Supra TT
Location: Lake Orion, MI
Contact:

Post

I love my RB20! It needs a bigger turbo really bad because the stock one pulls from about 3500 rpms to 5500 rpms, then you might as well shift 'cause it's out of breath. But, it's really smooth, sounds great! Love it!

User avatar
Hijacker
Posts: 15759
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:57 am
Car: '92 240sx Convertible
'94 F-150
Location: Fredericksburg, VA

Post

den240 wrote:Bart, did you ever get the ASCD working on your swapped 5speed?
not yet. i was actually trying to get it to work on Big Daddy Johnson's car when it was still in the hands of my friend Jay. Jay and I spent nearly 2 weeks trying to figure out what was going wrong with it, but couldn't. The ASCD is wired into the Auto Trans Control Unit by two wires (probably a constant and a ground), but even forcing a ground from one of those didn't get the cruise to kick on. We pulled the inhibitor relay thinking maybe that was the problem because it completes the cancel circuitfor the ASCD (so you can't set cruise while in park or neutral I suppose). Even went through and took out the wiring trick to get the top to work thinking that since the car was jumpered into park, that the ASCD may be getting mixed signals from that. No go. The ONLY thing I didn't try was disconnecting the park/neutral jumper, but then the car wouldn't even turn on. I have never spent so many days staring at wiring diagrams and schematics trying to figure out what was wrong with it. We even tried changing all of the ASCD components out. ASCD box, cruise actuator, cruise cable, and steering wheel. Nothing worked.

One last thing of note for the ASCD is that the brake pedal is designed specifically for it. It will have two sensors on the bracket. One is for reverse lamps, the other is for for the ASCD cancel circuit. If your pedal doesn't have both, you will need a new pedal. The pedal itself has a welded on bar that engages the stopper of the sensor. The non cruise units didn't get that bar.

ca18datsun510
Posts: 2050
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 7:28 pm
Car: bmw 330i zhp, 91 infiniti m30, 89 240sx, 07 zx6r, 05 trx450r
Contact:

Post

why not just get cruise parts out of a manual car at the junkyard?

Quote, originally posted by Jarret »

Another word of note to those interested in the swap, the transmission for the 240sx autos went into the frontier truck as well an have a hugely gripping flexplate, consider a flywheel upgrade and leave it at that. Keep in mind the 240 auto has better passing at highway speeds than the 5spd and runs 4-500 rpm lower at 75 MPH = better fuel economy!Hope that helps!

_Jarret

1994 LE

and im still wondering what the hell this guy was talking about.

User avatar
d3vilskid
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:47 pm
Car: 240sx '95 coupe

Post

Instead of connecting the wire to make the car think it is in park. Can't you connect it to the neutrual wire, making the car think it is in neutrual. Cause the car can start up in neutrual right. So the relay will see the car in neutral not park.(just guessing)

User avatar
Hijacker
Posts: 15759
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:57 am
Car: '92 240sx Convertible
'94 F-150
Location: Fredericksburg, VA

Post

the car doesn't differentiate park and neutral for start up. both park and neutral complete the same circuit.

at first I thought the issue was with the inhibitor relay. The inhibitor relay completes the ASCD cancel circuit when the car is in park or neutral. The inhibitor switch is hardwired to be in park so the top will function. I not only pulled the inhibitor relay, but I also disconnected the park hardwire and still could not get the ASCD to run.

I think the issue is in where the ACU (autro control unit) connects to the ASCD control box. The wiring diagrams are unfortunately too generic because it incorporates the auto units, the manual units, and the HICAS enabled units. I think that one wire from the ACU is a power wire, while the other is a switched ground. When the car is placed in drive, the ground completes, and the ASCD can function.

I grounded out the ASCD, and was able to get the cruise on light to come on, but still could not get the car to enter cruise.

What I need to do is contact some of the shops that have gotten cruise to work and see what they do.

Equinox
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 8:20 am
Contact:

Post

I am currently doing this swap on a s13 coupe. I read on another board that the flywheel bolts and bellhousing bolts are longer on a manual transmission. Is this true or can I reuse the auto tranny ones?

240droptop
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:24 pm
Car: 93 240sx Convertable

Post

as far as I have learnt you need the 5 spd tranny bolts cause there longer I belive someone correct me if i'm wroung thos

User avatar
AZhitman
Administrator
Posts: 71061
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 S13, 92 SE-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14.
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Contact:

Post

^ Correct.

Any one of our OEM parts sponsors can get them for you cheap.

csilvia
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:57 am
Car: Silvia S13 with a KA24DE

Post

tenkawa_akito wrote:
If you're doing a full on engine swap, go ahead and get the motor ready for removal, or otherwise, disconnect the tranny from the motor. This will be a pain since some of the bolts are going to be tucked up by the firewall. Heck, I don't even know if it's possible, since my experience for these swaps are done during engine swaps. After you unbolt the tranny crossmember, it will slide out.
anyone figured out a way to get to these bolts? it looks impossible without taking the whole motor out.

User avatar
AZhitman
Administrator
Posts: 71061
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 S13, 92 SE-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14.
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Contact:

Post

No need to pull the motor, they're actually not as bad as they look.

All are accesible from the underside, albeit with long arms (and long wrenches).

User avatar
den240
Posts: 240
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:11 pm
Car: 92 ca18det cnvt

Post

csilvia wrote:anyone figured out a way to get to these bolts? it looks impossible without taking the whole motor out.
I found it easiest to get to the top two toward the turbo-side///errr exhaust side of the engine from the top.

All are definitely accessible with the engine "in place". (I definitely took them all out and put them back in without removing the engine when working on my clutch after swap)

Tilting the engine a bit might help get you a bit of extra space.

User avatar
Hijacker
Posts: 15759
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:57 am
Car: '92 240sx Convertible
'94 F-150
Location: Fredericksburg, VA

Post

swivel sockets and very long extensions (like 3 foot and longer range) are the easiest ways to hit all of the bolts on the top of the tranny. If you don't have those, then a box end wrench is your other option.


Return to “240SX Convertible Forum”