Home audio speakers and receivers

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PapaSmurf2k3
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Thanks for the tips! I'll try re-routing the power cable tomorrow, but I doubt I have enough speaker cable to push one of the speakers all the way to the corner. I might have some laying around somewhere though.


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Looneybomber
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PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:Thanks for the tips! I'll try re-routing the power cable tomorrow, but I doubt I have enough speaker cable to push one of the speakers all the way to the corner. I might have some laying around somewhere though.
As with everything in life, there are trade-offs. Putting your speakers in corners will help with bass, but it spreads your sound stage, which messes up imaging. It also causes diffraction issues in the non-bass frequencies, meaning localizable sound bounces off the walls and to your ears, but with a slight delay in time. It causes peaks, nulls, and even phasing issues. Some people never even know they hear this and others pin point it like a needle in their vein.

All you can do is try it and see if it works for your ears and your room. Others combat it by placing sound deadening panels on the walls. The thickness and composition will determine which sound waves are absorbed the best. So a person can actually "tune" their deadening panels for those frequencies that are most problematic. But to really fine tune things, you'd need 1/4 wavelength pipes that will resonate out of phase with the frequency in question.

Sound radiates in a sphere from a speaker, so putting it in a corner is the same as 1/8 of a sphere. half shere (2pi)= speaker sitting in the middle of a field or playground; sound moves vertically 90deg and horizontally 360deg. 1/4 sphere (pi) = speaker against a wall, but away from corners, sound moves vertically 90degrees and horizontally 180deg. 1/8 space (1/2pi) is a speaker in a corner. Sound moves vertically 90deg and horizontally 90deg. Space drops from there, for example, horns used in proaudio horn tweeters ect, operate in less than 1/8 space which further helps reinforce sound, thus increasing it's sensitivity.

You gotta stop talking to me about sound, because the more I think about it the more I should be an acoustical engineer instead of an electrical and computer.

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PapaSmurf2k3
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I think I'll just keep the speakers where they are. I don't really need the extra sensitivity from the corner... I have reserve capacity as it is.

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So I noticed last night that I uh... don't have to change inputs to get sound through the receiver...

I was running my computer through it, listening to tunes, then turned on the TV and started watching some show without shutting the receiver off (but stopped Itunes). I noticed the sound coming from the TV had more punch than it normally does... and cranked up the volume on the receiver. To my surprise, the TV was playing through the receiver, while the same input for the computer had been selected... maybe that's why it gets quieter when the TV is on?

I guess I'll try and screw around with the inputs on the back one of these days and see if it still does it.

EDIT: Nevermind, guess I just had it selected on auto input or something... I switched inputs on the receiver and found which one the computer is hooked to.

cool feature.

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so I got the receiver to overheat today... and coincodentally almost cooked the DVR receiver that was sitting on top of it (it wouldn't turn on, just displayed a warning message on the TV and had a temperature reading). I was rocking out at +16 or so db, and the EQ pretty much went flat. I turned the volume down and after a minute or so it came back. I felt the top of the receiver and she was quite hot. I took out the DVR receiver and moved it above the Blu Ray player, and now have a solid 8" or so of empty space above the receiver.

I'll try cranking her again tomorrow.

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When I read that you overheated the receiver, I was like WTF and was trying to figure out how you did that. I was thinking a strand of speaker wire was shorting against the chassis, then you said you put the DVR on top of it!?

...Don't put anything on top of it, unless it's an active cooling device.

Side note: +16db is EXTREMELY high! (Without going into the math, 16db = 40x more power! So if you were once putting out 8w, turning up the volume another 16db would mean 320w of output.) Since -0db should mean ~100w for your receiver, +16db would be 4000w...and we both know that receiver is not going to put out 4kw/channel! Lawl.

Something's going on with your input signal, meaning it's far too low. An input signal of -0db along with a MV level of -0db should pretty much max out your receiver. Anything above -0db on the MV (Master Volume) either 1) compensates for a low signal, (for example, if the input signal is -5db, then the MV at +5db equates to a -0db output, or what we call reference.) or 2) you're driving it deep into clipping. Clipping because it will put out max power and that's it.

Are there any input attenuators/level compensators, or dynamic compression options? If it has auto input selecting, it might also have some added stuff to it that you won't know about unless you RTFM. (Read The Manual)

Did you say your computer was hooked up to it?

I'd have to get my DMM out, but I don't believe my computer puts out a -0db signal (.316V) It's actually -10dBV, but that's what everyone uses as standard (reference) in the home audio world, where-as pro audio/recording studio's use +4dBu (1.228V)

Depending on the mobo or vid card, you may even see a voltage output for it, so you can kind of see how high of a signal it'll output. Mine doesn't.

If you still run into heat issues, you'll either have to 1) turn it down (That sucks) or look into active cooling options, but I doubt you'll have any thermal shutdown issues once you move the DVR.
Modified by Looneybomber at 7:25 PM 9/18/2009

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PapaSmurf2k3
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yeah, I haven't had any issues since I removed the obstruction (although I haven't had it up that loud either). Also, I'm pretty sure I was at +6... not +16 haha.

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PoorManQ45
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You need to read the manual for the receiver.

Any receiver that starts at -dB and uses 0dB as a reference point will have input adjustments.

I suspect your input is too low. Looney alluded to this previously when he mentioned Gain on preamps and amps.

You either need to turn up the volume on your computer, or find the setting on your receiver to increase the initial volume for the inputs.

PS. I have a pair of Cerwin Vega RE38s

and CV D-3s


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Yeah, I do need to read the manual.

My computer volume is all the way up though.

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PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:Yeah, I do need to read the manual.

My computer volume is all the way up though.
It could be, which is why you're turning it up past -0db.

Winisd has a tone generator built in which you can use to play sweeps or sine waves. You can also adjust the volume from -0db to I forget how low, although I don't know how useful that will be without also having a DMM to test the output voltage from your computer.

Or you could just not worry about it and keep cranking up the MV.

That said, since I sit about 3ft from all my speakers, I rarely ever get the MV up to -0db. Typically I'm between -30 and -15db. Currently at -22db listening to Apocalyptica in Dolby PLII music.

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PapaSmurf2k3
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Figured I'd give a little update.

I'm still SUPER pleased with the setup. I rarely go louder than ~-12dB or so... and if I do, its only for 1 song.

The system plays loud enough to where I can turn it to roughly -18 and actually go outside and work on stuff in the yard and still hear music just fine... even with all the windows and doors closed... which means I can conserve heat/AC. The sound is pretty amazing. The bass seems almost limitless... only on the lowest of lows does it get a little muddy (I only have 1 or 2 songs that go really low where I can notice it).

So yeah...extremely satisfied.

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PoorManQ45
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If you want music outside, move the system to the garage for awhile...

That's what we do, but we have like 4 sets of spare speaker/receiver combos

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I don't have an enclosed garage... its an open car port... and there is kinda a lot of s*** to move if I wanted to do that (I'd have to re-route all the cables, etc). Not to mention the music comes from my desktop... and that isn't very mobile either, especially considering the monitor is the TV... which is even less mobile.

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PoorManQ45
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Ah, I just move a receiver and set of tower speakers outside. Use the radio

I guess if it's your primary system it's a little different.

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PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:So yeah...extremely satisfied.
For helping to point you in the right direction, how about a custom title?

BTW, if you want to get into outdoor music, you can start looking for outdoor speakers. I bought some JBL N26's and S36's and will likely be selling both pairs because they're not going to work for what I need. I'm now looking at JBL Control 29av's. 5 should work OK for an outdoor theater setup.

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PapaSmurf2k3
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You're military aren't you? You get one anyway. What do you want it to be?

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PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:You're military aren't you? You get one anyway. What do you want it to be?
I'll have to think of something. I'll contact you via email when I think of something. What's my character limit?

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PapaSmurf2k3
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Looneybomber wrote:What's my character limit?
Good question. Just send me what you want and I'll see if it works.

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I suggest "Target b****"

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PapaSmurf2k3
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Looneybomber wrote:I'll have to think of something.
Think of anything yet?

I'm sending my HK unit back... it keeps cutting out. Not losing power, it just stops putting out sound. Sometimes it comes back after a minute or 2, sometimes it will be out for days. It doesn't matter what input it comes from either. I tried switching the speakers from bank 1 to bank 2, and it didn't make a difference.

Last time this happened, they had me "reset the processor" by powering the unit off, and holding the mute button for 5 seconds- which I tried again here, but it didn't work.

Good thing I hung on to the ol sherwood, cos otherwise it would be quiet and boring in my house right now.

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Hmm, nothing good yet, I kind'a forgot. How about "Amateur Moderator"?

Not so good to hear about your receiver issue. I *knock on wood* haven't had issues with either of my receivers even with running them pretty hard during parties.

So are you now on the hunt for a replacement I guess?

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PapaSmurf2k3
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hah, I don't think we can do "Moderator" as a custom title... unless you are a moderator.

And HK is going to send me a new 3490 unit to replace my 3485. I just have to un-pack it from the box I already packed in in, and stick a post-it on the receiver with the return number on it.

Their customer service rep kinda sucked this time around... I don't know if its because I called on a Saturday, and that is the day they outsource all their crap to Inda, or if they just hired an Indian American with an incredibly thick accent. I couldn't understand a fooking word he was saying.

I called up and told him everything I did to try to make it work right, and he pretty much responded with asking me to try a bunch of things (all of which I had already mentioned I had tried).

EDIT: Don't know if its the same guy or not, but all the emails I'm getting from them are signed by "Zahoor".

I wanna say last time I called, I talked to a "Steve".

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Glad you kept the OE packaging. My wife doesn't understand why we're "keeping all these empty boxes".

I called one of our stores a little while back and spoke with someone with a very thick Indian accent. I had to get his name to use as a point of contact in my email, so he spells it for me phonetically. However, he didn't use NATO words (alpha, bravo, charlie, etc...) he used whatever he came up with so I still misspelled his name. Some guy in India got the email instead of him.

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PapaSmurf2k3
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haha

Actually, I didn't keep the original box (that I can find anyway). I had to get creative and make 1 big box out of 2 smaller boxes, a bunch of bubble wrap, and a whole lot of tape, which means I'm gonna have to cut through all that tape just to put the damn post-it on the receiver with the return # on it.

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telcoman
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PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:I saw the "deals" thread, but thought it would be better to start my own.

I'm looking for a home audio setup for music. I might turn it on for movies as well sometimes, but the #1 use is going to be music (LOUD music, rock). Looking for a nice 2 channel amp, and 2 bigass speakers (none of these stupid tiny f***ers that everybody seems to be making today).

I'm still up in the air for a receiver, but I'm thinking of Cerwin Vega for the speakers.

Currently looking at this:

Cerwin Vega VE-12F• Frequency Response: 28 Hz - 20 kHz • Peak Power Handling: 300 watts • Sensitivity (1w/1m): 93 dB • 5 1/4" Midrange with Fiber Impregnated Cone • 1 1/4" Treated Silver Mylar Tweeter with Ferro Fluid • 12" Cast Frame High Excursion Woofer

Problem is, there really isn't any audio stores around me that stock quality speakers (let alone these Cerwin Vegas). The closest place that has these would be in Nashville, roughly 5 hours away. Does anybody have any experience with them? Of all the stereos I've heard, from the multi channel systems with satellite speakers and separate subwoofers, up to a multi-thousand dollar bose system, nothing pleased my ears more than a simple 2 channel receiver and a pair of bigass speakers (Fisher or Technics... can't remember which) that a friend of mine had. Another friend had a comprable system with a pair of KLH floor standing speakers that absolutely pounded.

I'll be going to Best Buy either on Friday or Saturday this week and visiting their Magnolia display. Anything I should look for? Do any other speaker companies still make large speakers?
I'm having a similar problem.

I'm upgrading my 1970's stereo. Currently a Harmon Kardon Citation 11 preamp, a Citation 12 power amp (used to be an Ampzillia 200w per channel power amp until it died) and Bose 301 speakers.My original Electrovoice Interface A speakers disintegrated and were replaced with the Bose 301's

I recently purchased an Onkyo 5007 receiver a few weeks ago but is not hooked up yet. I am considering purchasing these speakers.

http://www.amazon.com/Mirage-O...r=1-4

And this subwoofer

http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ...RFKQS

My wife and I have heard the Bose Lifestyle jewel cube speakers and liked the sound but I and as others have written believe they are overpriced.I like clear bright sound and clean bass. Not boomy.

Any suggestions on other speakers I should consider. I heard the mirage thru a NAD receiver and liked them.

Telcoman
Modified by telcoman at 2:56 PM 3/31/2010

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PapaSmurf2k3
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That sub looks pretty good, but I couldn't find any technical specifications on the other speakers you posted... what gives Amazon??

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telcoman
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PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:That sub looks pretty good, but I couldn't find any technical specifications on the other speakers you posted... what gives Amazon??
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_6...specs


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I've heard the Mirage speakers, but didn't really give them an extended trial. Personally, I think they're worlds better than bose, but that's not saying much. I'd say you've got a pretty respectable setup if you go that route.

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marlin29311
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The Polk Sub is OK. It's not really that great.

You might want to look into an internet direct SUB company like SVS:
http://www.svsound.com/index.cfm
HSU:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/
Elemental Designs:
http://www.edesignaudio.com/

As for the MIrage speakers, I'm not really a big fan. I originally tested the NanoSat system, and was not impressed. The high ends tend to get distored in my mind, but also realize a lot of that has to do with the room I was in, and the design of the speaker itself. I also felt that they did not have a lot of midrange power.

How much are you looking to spend? It would be easier to recommend something with a price range. Also, are you looking for bookshelfs/a certian size speaker? I don't want to recommend a floorstander if you can't do it.

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Papa:

Hey, whatever happened with the exchanged receiver, dealings with Harman, and your thoughts on the 3490 receiver?

I ask because my sister decided to kill one of my old receivers that she was borrowing and now needs a 2ch replacement. Do you still like the HK unit?


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