Me and my Buddy started competing in Auto-X at the same time but his Hatch back spanks my car so bad. He has a short trans(B16) w/ a beefed up B18 engine, AGX struts, Tokico spings, ASR sub frame brace, and 8" wide NItto R compound tires. His times are 1:13 with the FTOD being 1:11. I have an SR20 w/ T25 at 7 psi, Cusco 2 way LSD, battle version in the rear, Tien tension rods, removed Hicas, KTS coilover. Both cars are pretty much gutted. I have spent way more money than him and I'm getting spanked with a 1:21. I am sure with more practice I could shave 3 seconds. Its wierd going from front wheel drive to rear wheel drive. I have read all the books he's read on Auto X.

What tires would be close to NItto R componds but cheaper in price since my tires are going to be way more exspensive to fit 18 x 9.5 rims? I do drive my car on the streets on the weekends.

What other mods would you suggest? Every thing else suspesion wise is stock.

Here is what I own but not installed yet, Tomie 272 cams, Z32 maf, need tuned ECU.
Modified by WestTxSR20Tuner at 11:00 AM 3/16/2010

maybe its not an issue with what mods you have/need. Driving style plays a huge role in auto-x, if he is able to stay on the gas more often because he has less hp and just mash it 80% of the time whereas you have to let up and feather it to keep traction. Maybe he is just a better driver and knows how to get his car around quicker, maybe your too timid with corner speed causing you .5sec per corner, that much time difference is a big indicator of something, you have alot more torque and HP already, maybe concentrate on your driving and less on ur mods. I dont want to come off as a d!ck, but its something that is overlooked in auto-x these days.

I agree that my driving is an issue. I come out of the turns too slow or I'm slipping side ways but some good tires would help. His car is way easier to manage with out a doubt.

If you want cheap great tires, grab some RE11's. They're pretty much the tire of choice along with RS3's in the Street Touring class and they wont cost you as much as r-comps.

GO GET YOUR CAR CORNER BALANCED. Most folks that get coilovers dont do this, making their coilovers worthless and pointless.

Luckily, since your civic friend swapped his motor, it should put him into the same class as you, SM. BOTH of you are probably getting raped in PAX but at least your multi is the same as his.

Do you bushings if you havent yet, especially the column. This is rather important as my S13 had a lot of play in its components before I swapped up the bushings.

If you want to get serious, get the smallest wheels you can fit over your brakes and get some A6's.

Honestly, you're kinda fighting a losing battle. Civics are much better autocross cars than S13's. You're going to have to ramp up your spending and really concentrate on getting as much seat time as possible.

Thanx for the advice. Our event doesn't have classes. It's just every one against every one. First place was a Corvett with A6 tires. 2nd place was a porche track car/ gocart looking thing. My friend with the Civic got 3rd. I was like 12th just beat out by a stock RSX. I was a little disapointed to say the least.

Newb? What is corner balanced and where does one get this done? I have heard of this but never really have known any one that had this done.

What do you think of the Federal SS595 tires? I have been hearing a lot of hype about these low priced tires?

WestTxSR20Tuner wrote:Thanx for the advice. Our event doesn't have classes. It's just every one against every one. First place was a Corvett with A6 tires. 2nd place was a porche track car/ gocart looking thing. My friend with the Civic got 3rd. I was like 12th just beat out by a stock RSX. I was a little disapointed to say the least.

Newb? What is corner balanced and where does one get this done? I have heard of this but never really have known any one that had this done.

What do you think of the Federal SS595 tires? I have been hearing a lot of hype about these low priced tires?

RSX's are much better cars for autocross than S13's too, so dont feel too bad. S13's, you'll find, are far from a popular choice in the realm of autox.

Corner balancing is just like it says. Call around to tuner shops in your area or talk to some folks at your autocross events about where to get your car corner balanced. It's not something you can do yourself unless you have the scales. This is important, as the whole purpose of coilovers is so that you corner balance your car, otherwise your car is setup all jacked up.

I've never heard of SS595 tires and I dont know anyone that uses them. I looked it up on the internet and it says they're drift tires, so I'd steer clear of that garbage. Falken makes that junk too and they're a garbage company also.

Try looking at what your opponents are using or what the pros choice of tire for your class, also you can try looking at the UTQG rating..when buyin street legal rubber.
Thread wear: lower rates mean stickier tire (sort of).

The 595RS has UTQG thread wear rating of 140 which is amoung the lowest for a normal road compound. So even if I have never used it, I can roughly guess that it should be OK..they should be a match for Neova AD07 or RE01R and the likes but you can't really compare 595 to the Nitto R thou.

work on driving style. i started auto crossing recently, and i have just been driving friends cars. 1st was an s13 with sr20, tein coilovers, control arms, tension rods, sway bars, welded diff, the works. i got one of the worst times of the day, my buddy got mid pack. and the other car is an s14 with an rb25 with gt35r and too many other engine mods, 2 way lsd, megan coilovers, and a lot of other stuff i dont remember right now. i also got one of the worst times of the day. then i changed my driving style and stopped drifting every damn corner. i pulled a 10th out of 31 people which i was happy about. and my buddy got 6th (s14)

i think it has everything to do with your driving style. try trading your friend cars one race and see how you do in his car and he does in your car. honestly i bet you that he will do better than you in your own car (no offense) it happened to me more than once

What is your front and rear camber set at? I beat honda's and loose to honda's all the time, they are not better. It is mostly driver skill and setup. If your friend put the same tires you have on, you will destroy him. the only thing touching the ground is the tire. make that part count. I have -2 degrees up front and -1 in the rear. you could go more in the front if you are not on the street some much.

I came within 3 seconds of a gutted honda crx with a good driver with my fully loaded mostly stock 4,000lb dry infinity Q45 with 4 extra passengers, I had -2.5 camber up front and -1 in the back. I also had narrower tires and 3 different brands.

seat time alone wont make you a better driver. learning the correct way will. same with mods to your car, mods wont make you faster, nor tires per say. i have seen bone stock vehicles with cheap old street tires destroy heavily modified cars with slicks with just skill alone.

The best thing you can improve is tire contact area in corners. feel the inside and outside of your tire, if they are different you need to adjust camber to take advantage of the whole tire. not just half of it. then buy a set of better tires that will stick better than your friend's tires and drive smooth and fast. don't waste time sideways.

from my experience... the 240 just wasn't made for autocross... it CAN be... with lots of money... but why not get something that is proven? ie: honda... ST civics and similar are just beastly autocross cars... the 240.... well let's just say my truck handles better than any 240 i've driven

PEZi720 wrote:from my experience... the 240 just wasn't made for autocross... it CAN be... with lots of money... but why not get something that is proven? ie: honda... ST civics and similar are just beastly autocross cars... the 240.... well let's just say my truck handles better than any 240 i've driven

My man here speaks the truth.

flohtingPoint wrote:

PEZi720 wrote:from my experience... the 240 just wasn't made for autocross... it CAN be... with lots of money... but why not get something that is proven? ie: honda... ST civics and similar are just beastly autocross cars... the 240.... well let's just say my truck handles better than any 240 i've driven

My man here speaks the truth.

UNtrue. Depends on what class you're in, and if you want to go national or local. My ST build is less than $5000, including the purchase price of the car. My SM build is well over $60000 with several different chassis.

jdrop wrote:
UNtrue. Depends on what class you're in, and if you want to go national or local. My ST build is less than $5000, including the purchase price of the car. My SM build is well over $60000 with several different chassis.

If this is PJ or David, your car is a rocket ship =P

Just about every ST 240 I've seen has been backmarkers, even to the local talent here in DC, where our best car is a Civic EX. It's not really a winning solution in the class and is about to be even worse off here next year. It's an uphill battle most definitely.

Fun Fact: In 2010, not a single 240SX was entered into ST Open on any national/pro tour.

Haha, actually it's Jenna, the little Asian girl that actually owns (half) the car :P

I think SCCA forums, NRR, and RRAX have beaten this topic to death, but I have never actually seen a well-prepped ST(S) 240sx, with the exception of Jason Rhoades' in 2006. I'm trying to change that and we're pretty sure it will be course dependent, but the 240 has a pretty good chance of doing well, and especially at Pros.

Locally up in New England, yes, the best car is an EF Civic, but at the same time...we only have a handful (read: 3) ST competitiors that have done anything nationally. And one is a 2.5RS that finished 20th after two bad days at '10 Nats.

What we up here have all written in and suggested is something like AST-FST, to make it more consistent with Stock and SP rules...where:

AST-Lotii, Vettes, whatever else. Don't laugh, I bet someone would run this.
BST-Evos, STi's...
CST-NA Miatas, CRX's, EF Civics (hey isn't this what they want to do anyway)
DST-240s, 2.5RS's, BMWs...most of what they want to move
EST-WRX's, Mustangs, G35's
FST-The Fits and Corollas they want to make room for anyway

By far my biggest issue with the move is that the power:weight ratio is so so so bad in STS for a 240. I'd rather see it in STX, where the 265's would help despite being down on power (though if the diff rule stays the same, maybe not as uncompetitive as I think).

240s arent competitive anymore.......

jdrop wrote:Haha, actually it's Jenna, the little Asian girl that actually owns (half) the car :P

I think SCCA forums, NRR, and RRAX have beaten this topic to death, but I have never actually seen a well-prepped ST(S) 240sx, with the exception of Jason Rhoades' in 2006. I'm trying to change that and we're pretty sure it will be course dependent, but the 240 has a pretty good chance of doing well, and especially at Pros.

Locally up in New England, yes, the best car is an EF Civic, but at the same time...we only have a handful (read: 3) ST competitiors that have done anything nationally. And one is a 2.5RS that finished 20th after two bad days at '10 Nats.

What we up here have all written in and suggested is something like AST-FST, to make it more consistent with Stock and SP rules...where:

AST-Lotii, Vettes, whatever else. Don't laugh, I bet someone would run this.
BST-Evos, STi's...
CST-NA Miatas, CRX's, EF Civics (hey isn't this what they want to do anyway)
DST-240s, 2.5RS's, BMWs...most of what they want to move
EST-WRX's, Mustangs, G35's
FST-The Fits and Corollas they want to make room for anyway

By far my biggest issue with the move is that the power:weight ratio is so so so bad in STS for a 240. I'd rather see it in STX, where the 265's would help despite being down on power (though if the diff rule stays the same, maybe not as uncompetitive as I think).

Pleased to meet you. PJ and David handed me a massive asswhooping in the DC Pro.

Yea, I spotted the thread on SCCAForums. Not certain the AST could work, it'd be spec Lotus as the Vette's wouldn't be able to put any power down. FST would be a headache driving cars with no hp and no diff on street tires. It seems like they're taking a page out of the USAF handbook by moving forward while moving backward. Those classes that will remain empty come nationals will have to be pax'ed in a lump class, causing more problems. It's hard enough gauging the Prep classes that are bone dry, that'd stoke the fire.

Honestly, I'd like to see a 240 in GS. Morbidly curious as to what it could do.

PJ and I own the car and Dave goes fast Are you heading to any events this year? The NE got Jersey, but then got screwed.

AST might not have the stampeed that STR did, but I also think it might be course dependant. You have the Porsches as well as everything from SS and a lot from AS, so it might be kind of fun. And if anything, it would be a HUGE local class. And it's not like a spec class is necessarily a bad thing. Most classes are like that anyway.

FST is kind of what they're already trying to make with the Fit and Yaris and everything else listed in the proposal. ST-Slow, some people are calling it. I think it depends on the diff rule, too. I have the sneaking suspicion it will go to aftermarket diffs throughout the entire category.

There's no bumping at Nationals, so you'll have 1-car categories, or empty categories. If they want to do a reorg, start with Prepared...GP is a joke and has been for years. ST is the fastest growing category...just don't fix it till you fix all the other broke stuff. (I'm biased, I just bought a 240 specifically for ST). However, I fully support the move to making things more consistent...same rules throughout, just divided by weight and displacement.

Either way, STS is the wrong place and STX isn't right, even if it's slightly more right than the alternative.

Also, I wouldn't go to GS if my life depended on it. I'm pretty sure Mark Daddio was going to try to run his Neon there this year.

jdrop wrote:PJ and I own the car and Dave goes fast Are you heading to any events this year? The NE got Jersey, but then got screwed.

Between doing time trials at Lime Rock/NJMP/Summit/VIR, I'll be doing the Dixie, Toledo and Delaware National Tour stops in a DS car I'm co-driving. I'll also be going to Nationals with it. Probably not doing any Pro's unless I can find a co-drive (my car is much more FSP than SM, and I'm slowly plugging away at making it full FSP), the only reason I did last year's was because it was in DC.

If they want to do a reorg, start with Prepared...GP is a joke and has been for years.

I agree, but I wont tell the Kugler's if you wont =P

Also, I wouldn't go to GS if my life depended on it. I'm pretty sure Mark Daddio was going to try to run his Neon there this year.

Nationally, no. Regionally/Divisionally, I think it could do ok. Kenny has been doing some nice things with his SPEC-V in that class.

flohtingPoint wrote:
Between doing time trials at Lime Rock/NJMP/Summit/VIR, I'll be doing the Dixie, Toledo and Delaware National Tour stops in a DS car I'm co-driving. I'll also be going to Nationals with it. Probably not doing any Pro's unless I can find a co-drive (my car is much more FSP than SM, and I'm slowly plugging away at making it full FSP), the only reason I did last year's was because it was in DC.

You might see my ST 240 at Dixie (if we can get everything in order by then). PJ wants to try testing it. I won a free entry to Nationals, so I don't necessarily have to do a Tour to get the $100 discount on entry, and they're all so far anyway. The guys are probably going to do the Jersey/Oscoda (and possibly Lincoln) Pros as well as the Finale.

There's another 86 that runs FSP out of Colorado or something...Nice guys, Van and Dan Townsend. They have it painted like Takumi's.

I agree, but I wont tell the Kugler's if you wont =P

I think the Kuglers are great I just think SCCA's "we need to reorg to save a dying class of cars that don't even race yet" idea is really dumb. (And the whole SM engine proposal along the same lines...17 cars deep isn't dying.) Prepared and Mod have been "dying" forever, but they don't touch those classes.

Nationally, no. Regionally/Divisionally, I think it could do ok. Kenny has been doing some nice things with his SPEC-V in that class.

I think so too...up here though, GS is pretty much dominated by a CRX....once the Spec V driver went to a faster (red: MY) SM car

jdrop wrote:You might see my ST 240 at Dixie (if we can get everything in order by then). PJ wants to try testing it. I won a free entry to Nationals, so I don't necessarily have to do a Tour to get the $100 discount on entry, and they're all so far anyway. The guys are probably going to do the Jersey/Oscoda (and possibly Lincoln) Pros as well as the Finale.

There's another 86 that runs FSP out of Colorado or something...Nice guys, Van and Dan Townsend. They have it painted like Takumi's.

Van is a good pal of mine. I pick his brain on a lot of items and we talk about karting quite a bit. He sold his Corolla last year and word around the block is that he'll be driving in SMF this year in a transformed Spec ST. If it comes to fruition, I'm looking forward to seeing how he runs against Karwan.

I dont know if you know Danny Kao, but I'll be his co-driver this year in a MS3. I'll look around in Dixie for you all =)

To the OP, other than seat time (which is obvious), I'd suggest the following:
1. Tires - If you want to capitalize on having more power than a measly B16, you're going to need to be able to use it. There aren't many street tires that can handle much over 200hp in a 2600 - 2700 lb car, even when going wider. My suggestion would be to get a cheap set of wheels, and find some used Hoosier A6's. A popular size is 275/35R15, and you can get wheels at a reasonable price in 15x10 from Diamond Racing (or any other circle track wheel manufacturer). Besides that, even a 225 wide R-comp would destroy pretty much any street tire, so get what you can in your budget.

2. Alignment - Your next bet is to learn how to align the car if you haven't already. As nice as it is to have someone else do it, I'm a firm believer in doing it yourself. Look up how to do a string alignment, and rig up or buy a camber gauge. It's time consuming at first, but you can get pretty quick at it in the end. I've found that people who pay for alignments make less changes to the car, and generally chase a bad setup longer. Being able to align the car enables you to try different toe settings, or reset the car when making camber changes.

3. Shocks - Cheaper (JDM) shocks are fine for runway courses that don't undulate, but they're just not digressive enough to handle surface irregularities at most autocrosses, while being stiff enough at low speed to handle the massive amount of transitions. A good Koni Race shock or revalved Bilstein will do wonders compared to most off-the-shelf coilover options.

Amays U G37S wrote:240s arent competitive anymore.......

Except for 3 of 4 240sx drivers going to Nationals in 2010 collecting a trophy (and one coning away the National Championship)....


Expect to see more 240's at Nats in 2011. A couple of northwestern guys have some fast S13's that are expected to make the trip, and jdrop's car already has a couple top-notch drivers lined up for co-drives in both ST and STX Meanwhile, the Bennett S13 in XP is getting a massive weight reduction, and my SM S14 will be lighter, more powerful, and have new aero.

There's still hope for 240's.... if anything, I think my car's recent success has proven it's still a contender, and I think there's way more potential beyond what I've done:

(Photo Credit: Ed Savage)