Heat blows cold when idling

A forum for lovers of Infiniti's hot-rod crossover, the FX! In 2014, all FX models will be named Infiniti QX70, in line with Infiniti's new naming structure.
myother45isalesbaer
Posts: 955
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:31 am
Car: 2004 M45 Q70 awd,4.5

Post

CanuckQx4 wrote:I fixed it WOO!! maybe this will help the op so I'll say how I fixed it.

Basically I drove the car to the bar tonight, packed my jack and 4 liters of coolant, parked it where there was a curb infront of me, and drove up on it, engine was definitely the highest point, then I even took out my jack and lifted my front tires right off the curb, car was ridiculously high.

Then I left it like that while I went inside for 3 hours, in -10 degree weather. Came back out and started the car up, popped the rad cap off and let it idle for 40 minutes, took forever to get the coolant to 150, once it got to 150 (I have an aftermarket gauge so I watched exact temps) I turned the heat on full blast, and used the throttle body to HOLD the revs at 2000rpm or so, some coolant dumped out, bubbles, plops of coolant, but then all of the sudden, after about 40 seconds of holding it at 2k rpm, the coolant level dropped atleast an inch (I could now see the cooling fins inside). I topped up the coolant, did a few more revs with nothing significant happening anymore. So I threw the cap on.

Started driving home... HEAT!! yay!!!! came to a stoplight a few minutes down the road, heat on full blast... still had heat!! YAY!!!

Coolant problem solved.

Excellent. Never heard of an air bubble causing so much trouble. I was going to suggest thermostat, but since water dropped that was the thermostat opening up to let hot coolant to the heater. Learn something new everyday. Glad you got it fixed.


catperson
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:53 am
Car: 2004 FX35

Post

I'm glad you got your problem solved CanuckQX4. It's really annoying not having heat all the time when you really need it. I haven't done anything with the car since the thermostat was changed a couple of weeks ago and I haven't had the same problem that I did before. Although I still am not sure that I got all the air out, the car is definitely warmer at idle, but still not at 100%. It seems that the only time I notice that it is not hot is in the morning when it's running in the driveway. When I stop at a light the heat works fine and doesn't blow cold. So I guess it's not an extremely urgent issue for me right now. But if it starts acting up again, I will have to try to get more air out.

User avatar
SteveTheTech
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:20 pm
Car: 15 Sentra SR
12 G37x Coupe
-Formerly-
05 Mazda 6 L3 Sport, 95 J30, 94 D22
Location: Chantilly, Va

Post

CanuckQx4 wrote:I fixed it WOO!!
I hope the best but I think you have a blown head gasket.

For all those who are new to Infiniti or Nissan after 2002 the cooling circuit requires a vacuum to properly recharge. It works much more like the air conditioner system than a traditional cooling system. Nissans are extremely picky about coolant mixture. I always personally buy OE coolant for my Acura and Infiniti. IMO-there is no comparing Nissan OE to any replacement I have seen for a Nissan that is.

The best place to start is having the coolant drained and refilled using a vacuum refill tool.

Image
http://www.amazon.com/UView-550000-Airl ... 880&sr=8-1

This is the lower end of these items but it is pretty much necessary to get heat out of any new Infinitis or Nissans. This might be something to consider differing to the experts on.

User avatar
speedeast
Posts: 1611
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:01 pm
Car: 1990 240sx VH45 FB & 1993 300zx
Location: Orlando, Fl

Post

Thanks for chiming in Steve, didn't realize you live like 10 minutes away...

catperson
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:53 am
Car: 2004 FX35

Post

"I hope the best but I think you have a blown head gasket."

Steve, are you referring to CanuckQX4's issue or to mine? We both were having the same problem.

User avatar
SteveTheTech
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:20 pm
Car: 15 Sentra SR
12 G37x Coupe
-Formerly-
05 Mazda 6 L3 Sport, 95 J30, 94 D22
Location: Chantilly, Va

Post

speedeast wrote:Thanks for chiming in Steve, didn't realize you live like 10 minutes away...
You have to specific when talking about VA, is that 10 minutes in traffic.
I'm not quiet DC but still inside the Beltway.
ImageCheers neighbor.
catperson wrote:"I hope the best but I think you have a blown head gasket."

Steve, are you referring to CanuckQX4's issue or to mine? We both were having the same problem.
You have the same symptom but a different cause, I think.

You I think need a proper coolant flush with a vacuum tool.

User avatar
speedeast
Posts: 1611
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:01 pm
Car: 1990 240sx VH45 FB & 1993 300zx
Location: Orlando, Fl

Post

SteveTheTech wrote:You have to specific when talking about VA, is that 10 minutes in traffic.
I'm not quiet DC but still inside the Beltway.
ImageCheers neighbor.
Well, depends on what time of day. Probably 20 minutes against traffic, hour with, haha.

User avatar
CanuckQx4
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 10:45 am
Car: 2001.5 Qx4 2wd

Post

So you think I have a blown headgasket?? Would there not be contamination in the oil or coolant??? I dont see either

Curious how you came to that conclusion

User avatar
speedeast
Posts: 1611
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:01 pm
Car: 1990 240sx VH45 FB & 1993 300zx
Location: Orlando, Fl

Post

If the head gasket cracks between the cylinder and a coolant channel, the the compression stroke would push air into the coolant. The return stroke wouldn't always draw in coolant because air moves faster, explaining no change in exhaust (white smoke). It's not cracked on one of the oil lines; therefore, oil doesn't mix with coolant and vice-versa.

User avatar
CanuckQx4
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 10:45 am
Car: 2001.5 Qx4 2wd

Post

I had this problem after I myself changed parts though, so I am skeptical about thinking I have a blown head gasket

User avatar
speedeast
Posts: 1611
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:01 pm
Car: 1990 240sx VH45 FB & 1993 300zx
Location: Orlando, Fl

Post

I agree, just explaining.

User avatar
SteveTheTech
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:20 pm
Car: 15 Sentra SR
12 G37x Coupe
-Formerly-
05 Mazda 6 L3 Sport, 95 J30, 94 D22
Location: Chantilly, Va

Post

speedeast wrote:If the head gasket cracks between the cylinder and a coolant channel, the the compression stroke would push air into the coolant. The return stroke wouldn't always draw in coolant because air moves faster, explaining no change in exhaust (white smoke). It's not cracked on one of the oil lines; therefore, oil doesn't mix with coolant and vice-versa.
:yesnod Yeah what he said.

I think you have that problem because I think we have spoke before about this in another thread. It really sounds your motor is spent. Did you used to have another screenname here, like pre your 2010 join date?
CanuckQx4 wrote:I had this problem after I myself changed parts though, so I am skeptical about thinking I have a blown head gasket
What parts did you change?

User avatar
CanuckQx4
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 10:45 am
Car: 2001.5 Qx4 2wd

Post

thermostat (with water neck), radiator and upper and lower rad hoses

User avatar
SteveTheTech
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:20 pm
Car: 15 Sentra SR
12 G37x Coupe
-Formerly-
05 Mazda 6 L3 Sport, 95 J30, 94 D22
Location: Chantilly, Va

Post

Looks like you already did the easy stuff....

I am sorry to hear about your luck. I really do hope things turn around for you and your family.
However I still think you have at least one serious issue maybe several.

I would start with the service manual (http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/pathfinder/ ... der/ec.pdf) start reading at 440.

The answer to one of your problems is in there. Go get it.
Start at step one and work your way through until you can come back with an answer.

User avatar
CanuckQx4
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 10:45 am
Car: 2001.5 Qx4 2wd

Post

I have no problem reading, and I get what youre saying that I should be doing more myself. Im just not the most skilled at disciffering the FSM. Im looking at EC-440 and I honestly just dont understand the lingo they use or what its saying to check.

Like I said I already bought the 2 cam sensors to clear 1135/1145 and just recently a new MAF, spark plugs, thermostat and such all from Nico vendors. Im looking to support this place and I understand Im asking alot. Ive just read so many of your topics on this specific P1110 error and its diagnosis and after changing the 2 sensors, leading me to believe its the solenoid possibly.

But to be honest. I cannot even locate in the FSM or my physical engine bay, either of the solenoids.

I realize it would be best to hand over the vehicle to a dealership, but I simply couldnt afford to do that and would have to park the vehicle and turn to public transit if that happpend and park my rig. I am also in Canada so local help and knowledge is very limited.

Thank you for your help so far steve, I know Im asking for alot, but the way you seem to think of my cars condition, and I know you know what youre talking about, I feel as if Im on the brink of some major malfunction

User avatar
SteveTheTech
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:20 pm
Car: 15 Sentra SR
12 G37x Coupe
-Formerly-
05 Mazda 6 L3 Sport, 95 J30, 94 D22
Location: Chantilly, Va

Post

I do not mean to come off as short with you. It's just the level of diagnostics you are facing are fairly advanced, and I have no idea what your trucks actual condition is. The steps in the diagnostic procedure are things you will need to prove to achieve an accurate diagnosis. I will try to do what I can to help you with this but I cannot make any guarantees. In reading the threads in this and other forums I am sure you realize the results of this type of diagnosis can be hit or miss in ideal conditions. You might want to just buy a solenoid for the hell of it but that is just a guess.

Do you have a multimeter?

User avatar
CanuckQx4
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 10:45 am
Car: 2001.5 Qx4 2wd

Post

I do have a multimeter and good knowledge of how to use it in my field (car audio, checking resistance and voltage) but Ive never used it for OEM part checks or such.

I take your advice very seriously, as Ive been reading the past few days posts from over the years and you always are the one to come through with the tech and correct answer, be it one that I want to hear or not. If you tell me to take the car to the dealer, I would. But Id love to do this myself, I love learning, and knowing my vehicles.

User avatar
SteveTheTech
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:20 pm
Car: 15 Sentra SR
12 G37x Coupe
-Formerly-
05 Mazda 6 L3 Sport, 95 J30, 94 D22
Location: Chantilly, Va

Post

Well we are in business then.

:) Thanks for the kind words. I want to share what I know with people who want to learn not people who are looking for an easy out. If you are genuinely interesting in learning a little bit I am more than willing to do what I can to help.

How long does the oil light stay on when you first start the car first thing in the morning?

Lets try measuring the resistance of the solenoids located on the front of the valve covers.
You might want to remove them and try this test.
Image

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/pn ... directlink

Once you have the solenoids out you can have someone start the truck for a few seconds to see if and how much oil comes out of the holes.

Good Luck.

User avatar
CanuckQx4
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 10:45 am
Car: 2001.5 Qx4 2wd

Post

I tried to do as much as I can before my girlfriend exploded waiting to go out for new years.

First I did the oil light test, car hasnt moved all day and it is 6 degrees outs, fairly warm, and as soon as I started it the oil light went away almost instantly, before the car made it up to 1400rpm anyways. I do think I notice it stay on for about 1 second on cold days.

Then I located the solenoids, quite hidden, Ive definetely never seen them before. I remove the retaining bolt on the passenger side solenoid but was unable to slide it all of the way out of the engine because a hard water line is in the way for the upper rad hose. I unbolted it and pried it back while trying to pull the sensor out but the solenoid is just to long. Only way I seen to get it out safely was to remove the upper hose so I could move the hardline out of the way.

Image

Not the greatest pic but you can see what Im hitting, the bolt for the hardline I removed in on the right side of the picture.

Then I rigged up a lead wire off of my batteries positive and negative and touched them intermittently to the male end of the connector, I still had the solenoid half out at this point and you could audibly hear it clicking, and there was a little view window built into it I could see something moving inside.

I figured Id report back with that info and see what you have to say. If I do have to remove the solenoid and drain the coolant system to take off that hose, would it be benefical to swap the solenoids between banks and see if the code comes up on the other side (if there is bank dependant codes for this I dont know)

Appreciate the help!! Happy new year

User avatar
CanuckQx4
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 10:45 am
Car: 2001.5 Qx4 2wd

Post

And I just noticed you mentionned to check the resistance, assuming between the 2 connectors on the solenoid. I'll have to do that when I get home in a few hours

User avatar
SteveTheTech
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:20 pm
Car: 15 Sentra SR
12 G37x Coupe
-Formerly-
05 Mazda 6 L3 Sport, 95 J30, 94 D22
Location: Chantilly, Va

Post

CanuckQx4 wrote:I tried to do as much as I can before my girlfriend exploded waiting to go out for new years.

First I did the oil light test, car hasnt moved all day and it is 6 degrees outs, fairly warm, and as soon as I started it the oil light went away almost instantly, before the car made it up to 1400rpm anyways. I do think I notice it stay on for about 1 second on cold days.
Ahh only a real car geek will be willing to cross a waiting girlfriend to make a hell of a mess.

The oil light going out quick is a great sign.
You got the solenoid but went the long way to get it out. On top of it there are three 10mm headed bolts. The solenoids are not interchangeable but if the resistance is anything other open it is safe assumption that may not be the issue. I think the intake timing code was on the so passenger side (bank 1). Maybe you can switch the driver (the little part in your hand) only.

Happy New Year to you and yours as well. Image

User avatar
CanuckQx4
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 10:45 am
Car: 2001.5 Qx4 2wd

Post

HA! I cant believe I didnt notice the 3 bolts ontop of the solenoids holding the whole assembly down. First I'll start with my big mess up of the day that my girlfriend is going to KILL me for. You mentionned starting the car with the solenoid off to check for oil flow. I took the passenger side solenoid completely off, shoved a few shop rags around it and one ontop, started the car and quickly came back to see if any oil was coming out.

I was expecting a small drip, definetely not what I got lol. Ive never ran so fast to turn the car back off!!

Image

So to answer your question on if there is any oil flow in that area... I think there is!! I would compare the flow of oil coming out of those wholes to that of someone vomiting. It was gushing out, I lost about 1.5L in less than 10 seconds

After cleaning that mess as best I could, I went ahead and changed my oil with fresh 5w-30. I pulled the other solenoid off aswell (drivers side)

Image

I tested the resistance between the terminals on each solenoid, and both read about 7.1 ohms. You can tell they are not interchangeable though, different electrical connectors

I also blew both solenoids with compressed air hoping to clear any debris in there if any. And reinstalled them

I havent driven the car yet, but Id imagine it hasnt cured the problem. Anything else I can do to further diagnosis let me know Steve and thanks again

qship96
Posts: 6624
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 11:31 am
Car: 1996 Q45

Post

geez that looks like filthy dirty oil!!!! how many miles since last oil change?

User avatar
CanuckQx4
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 10:45 am
Car: 2001.5 Qx4 2wd

Post

Thats only 1000miles old, dont know why it looks that black, looked clean and fresh on the dipstick when I was figuring out how much I lost

catperson
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:53 am
Car: 2004 FX35

Post

I'm going back to my original problem of heat blowing cold at idle. It seems that problem has gotten much better since the thermostat was changed and we managed to get some air out of the system. But I'm still having the problem of a whining type of noise coming from under the dash somewhere. I've heard the noise for awhile, but it was very intermittent. Now it seems to be more frequent, but still intermittent. When I hear the noise, I turn off the heat entirely and it stops. It used to stop immediately when I turned the heat off and then turned it back on right away. Lately I've had to leave the heat off for about 10-15 minutes in order to get it to stop making the noise. I'm just wondering if anyone has any ideas as to what part could be making the noise and what may be causing it. I'm just not sure what needs to be checked next.

myother45isalesbaer
Posts: 955
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:31 am
Car: 2004 M45 Q70 awd,4.5

Post

CanuckQx4 wrote:I had this problem after I myself changed parts though, so I am skeptical about thinking I have a blown head gasket
If you think about all a head gasket does is not allow coolant, oil, combustion to mix. Hate to disagree with another poster trying to help, but I am also skeptical about a blown head gasket. Burbing the air seems more logical. The way I used to do it is on a cold engine start, put the heater on max, let the car heat up, it will throw some coolant in the process. Watch the level in the radiator. It should drop as soon as the thermostat opens to allow the heater to get warmed coolant. Rev the motor a bit to make sure the coolant is moving. Once the coolant is moving wait a few minutes. Shut down. Top off the radiator and you should be good to go. I have had blown head gaskets and cracked heads on other cars. Yours does not seem to have those symptoms.

User avatar
SteveTheTech
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:20 pm
Car: 15 Sentra SR
12 G37x Coupe
-Formerly-
05 Mazda 6 L3 Sport, 95 J30, 94 D22
Location: Chantilly, Va

Post

OP first- :)
You have what really sounds like two separate issues lets break this up.
catperson wrote:I'm going back to my original problem of heat blowing cold at idle.
This is probably the air pocket in the heater core.
Does it Gurgle when you first accelerate?
catperson wrote:But I'm still having the problem of a whining type of noise coming from under the dash somewhere.
This could be the sound of a bubbling air pocket as coolant races through the heater core under load. Or a blower motor.
Does the noise change as the fan speed increases?
If you have a chance I would highly recommend stopping (in a safe spot) and using the MODE button to cycle through the possible settings to see if any of them trigger the noise.

Let us now take a quick second to look at what your truck threw up.

Image
qship96 wrote:geez that looks like filthy dirty oil!!!!
Yeah that about sums it up.
What does that oil smell like?
I swear I told you to get someone to start the car for you. There was indeed a reason. haha
That's not really as much oil as you think it is though I bet. Oil spreads, with as much sludge and raw fuel as there is in yours it looks like it spread quick. (Sorry, I've been there.) I think the cold has exacerbated this engines awesome ability to create sludge and pollute your oil. The fact the your oil is new actually makes things worse. Having that much oil come out of the oil lines means the initial pressure is ok.
Resistance is present so the solenoid windings are intact.
The next thing I would tell someone at work who asked about this would be to see if the intake cam timing is advancing under load. However you do not have access to this information, so we will have to come up with something to see where the fault actually is.
myother45isalesbaer wrote: If you think about all a head gasket does is not allow coolant, oil, combustion to mix. Hate to disagree with another poster trying to help, but I am also skeptical about a blown head gasket. Burbing the air seems more logical.
Agreed...but these are not nearly as common anymore. I'm thinking back to the days when my father had an old Olds wagon that blew a head gasket and took a radiator out (ahem, two radiators). Those were the days of an easy diagnosis the new ones are much sneakier.
The QX4 and FX35 tend to exhibit similar symptoms when the head gasket fails. It really depends on the failure. Most commonly we tend to see mud in the reservoir and a slight miss under load. Given the condition of this engine (citing above spilled oil) a HG failure might not be out of the picture.

User avatar
CanuckQx4
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 10:45 am
Car: 2001.5 Qx4 2wd

Post

SteveTheTech wrote:
The next thing I would tell someone at work who asked about this would be to see if the intake cam timing is advancing under load. However you do not have access to this information, so we will have to come up with something to see where the fault actually is.
The oil didnt smell anything funky, but I didnt really try and smell it as I was cleaning.

:gotme

catperson
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:53 am
Car: 2004 FX35

Post

I haven't heard any gurgling sounds when starting, driving or accelerating. I also haven't noticed if the noise changes with different fan speeds. I usually turn just turn it off before testing it any further. I guess that's something that I can do to see what happens.

User avatar
SteveTheTech
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:20 pm
Car: 15 Sentra SR
12 G37x Coupe
-Formerly-
05 Mazda 6 L3 Sport, 95 J30, 94 D22
Location: Chantilly, Va

Post

Without draining and vacuuming the coolant I am still going to bet you still have an air pocket in the heater core. Nissans are notoriously difficult to purge the air from.

I'm at a loss on the noise, it could be a bunch of things. Without more information we are kind of stuck.
Not to be discouraging but it is what it is.
CanuckQx4 wrote:The oil didnt smell anything funky, but I didnt really try and smell it as I was cleaning.
That oil looks like its 1/3 raw fuel, 1/3 sludge, and 1/3 oil.


Return to “Infiniti FX35 / FX45 / FX37 / FX50 / QX70 Forum”