head gasket

Post by **nismo_chk** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:45 pm

Does anyone know where i can get a metal or copper headgasket asap and for not an outrageous price for my CA?? Ive only heard of like 2 companies to make them, which is HKS, and something like five R racing or w/e.. and its not listed on HKS's website and i cant find it anywhere.. i know you guys have gotten them before.. HELP!! i need it Soon!! thanks-BRitt
Modified by nismo_chk at 12:17 AM 9/23/2005

Post by **knightrider** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:06 pm

tomei still has em, i just ordered mine for my new motor.

Post by **nismo_chk** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:09 pm

umm.. i said AFFORDABLE.. haha im broke

Post by **Not_a_sr** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:13 pm

why not stay with a OEM gasket or felpro? unless your goin for insane boost and HP youll never need it, and it might just save you a set of pistons if somthing goes wrong.

Post by **biosehnsucht** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:15 pm

stock gaskets are easilly good for over 300hp as long as the tuning is decent. And like Not_a_sr said its better to lose the HG than the pistons/rods/hole in block

Post by **themadscientist** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:05 am

If you are broke and your current gasket is still ok leave it alone. Wait until you can do a build without cutting corners.

Post by **c-rad** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:15 am

Yeah, you're looking at $220+ or nothing on a metal gasket. I was talking with cometic the other day about it, and realized that on a stock bottom end, I would much rather have my headgasket be the weak point than a slug. Just use a composite gasket, some ARP hardware and some copper spray and you should be good to go.

Post by **float_6969** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:12 am

Well, just for S&G's, I decieded to turn up the boost to see how the car would act. So that you know what kind of abuse we're talking about, this is a .5mm bored CA18DET, with 9.5:1 compression forged pistons. Stock rods, copper sprayed felpro headgasket, ARP head studs, on a fresh rebuild. I cranked it up to 1 Bar (SR T25, so I didn't want to go much higher) and the car is fine. I did 3 full throttle, low RPM to redline runs, basically in a row w/o any problems whatsoever.

BTW, my car is stupid fast. I'm soooo gonna get killed with this thing. High comp + small turbo = crazy fast spool. Top end kinda fell off, and I don't think it held 1 Bar to redline. I was watching my intake temps and knock sensor more than anything. I definatly need a T28...

Post by **nismo_chk** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:18 am

float_6969 wrote:Well, just for S&G's, I decieded to turn up the boost to see how the car would act. So that you know what kind of abuse we're talking about, this is a .5mm bored CA18DET, with 9.5:1 compression forged pistons. Stock rods, copper sprayed felpro headgasket, ARP head studs, on a fresh rebuild. I cranked it up to 1 Bar (SR T25, so I didn't want to go much higher) and the car is fine. I did 3 full throttle, low RPM to redline runs, basically in a row w/o any problems whatsoever.

BTW, my car is stupid fast. I'm soooo gonna get killed with this thing. High comp + small turbo = crazy fast spool. Top end kinda fell off, and I don't think it held 1 Bar to redline. I was watching my intake temps and knock sensor more than anything. I definatly need a T28...

im not really sure what this has to do with my thread but sounds cool... to the others... so you really think i should just get a stock one for now until im actually able to afford internals and ****?? my head gasket is definetly blown and is the cause of my problems i had awhile back where i thought it was my piston and ****.. so its a relief toknow its not that..

Post by **boost_boy** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:37 am

nismo_chk wrote:

im not really sure what this has to do with my thread but sounds cool... to the others... so you really think i should just get a stock one for now until im actually able to afford internals and ****?? my head gasket is definetly blown and is the cause of my problems i had awhile back where i thought it was my piston and ****.. so its a relief toknow its not that..

Get a stock headgasket and some fresh head bolts and leave it alone. If you must have a copper gasket, I have one for $160, but you will spend more $$$s trying to prep your motor to properly receive this copper gasket.

Dee

Post by **float_6969** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:42 am

nismo_chk wrote: im not really sure what this has to do with my thread but sounds cool... to the others... so you really think i should just get a stock one for now until im actually able to afford internals and ****?? my head gasket is definetly blown and is the cause of my problems i had awhile back where i thought it was my piston and ****.. so its a relief toknow its not that..

If you read it, I did that on a stock style head gasket.

My point was that, from personal experience, the stock headgasket can take some abuse.

If 1 Bar on a high compression motor, with a turbo that is overheating the air still won't blow the head gasket. It should hold up just fine.

Post by **r34 gtr** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:51 am

and with ryan being such a masterful post whore, i think any relevance to the topic warrants a good long post. right?

that stock gasket will take a real beating. take it from me, i ran it for an hour without coolant (dont ask..) and it didnt even think about leaking.

- tim

Post by **themadscientist** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:34 am

ex-wifes 180 has a stock gasket, the one Nissan put in there 16 years ago and the S14 turbo on there has swung up to 1.2 more than a few times, The car purrs like a kitten, If you blew your gasket something is wrong and I suspect you may have bigger problems like a warped head. Better check before you spend a dime.

Post by **float_6969** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:41 pm

yea, if you're rebuilding, plan on taking the block and head down and having them resurfaced and checked for a nice even surface.

Post by **knightrider** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:55 pm

my car made plenty of runs on the dyno at 18 psi with the stock headgasket, then at the track i spun a bearing and siezed the motor DOH!!. hehe, oh well. i think the only thing i would do is o ring the block, the stock CA gasket doesnt have the o ring that nissan later implimented into the stock HG later on, it helps seal the gasket better. not sure if the felpro one has this or not.

also i wouldnt run a copper HG unless you are planning to tear your motor down repeatedly.

Post by **c-rad** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:27 pm

knightrider wrote:my car made plenty of runs on the dyno at 18 psi with the stock headgasket, then at the track i spun a bearing and siezed the motor DOH!!. hehe, oh well. i think the only thing i would do is o ring the block, the stock CA gasket doesnt have the o ring that nissan later implimented into the stock HG later on, it helps seal the gasket better. not sure if the felpro one has this or not.

O-ring your block? Oh, so you can blow pieces of pistons and rod through the bottom of the motor instead? lol. o-ringing is for people who are running like 30+psi with a fully built motor. Also, are you saying the stock CA gasket doesn't have the fire rings at the top of each cylinder? If your stock gasket didn't have that, it's probably because the seal was crap and they got burnt up. I've never seen ANY hg without fire rings.

Post by **zero_gripS13** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:08 am

whats this copper spray u keep mentioning??? name some companys that make it aND WHAT ITS USED FOR PLEASE?

Post by **float_6969** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:15 am

I picked my can up at advance auto. It's a copper colored spray that you are supposed to put on gaskets to make them stronger and more heat tolerant. It's nothing special and any parts store should have it.

Post by **c-rad** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:24 am

zero_gripS13 wrote:whats this copper spray u keep mentioning??? name some companys that make it aND WHAT ITS USED FOR PLEASE?

Permatex makes it and it's called Copper Gasket Spray. It helps seal the gasket to both the head and the block.

Post by **boost_boy** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:36 am

knightrider wrote:my car made plenty of runs on the dyno at 18 psi with the stock headgasket, then at the track i spun a bearing and siezed the motor DOH!!. hehe, oh well. i think the only thing i would do is o ring the block, the stock CA gasket doesnt have the o ring that nissan later implimented into the stock HG later on, it helps seal the gasket better. not sure if the felpro one has this or not.

also i wouldnt run a copper HG unless you are planning to tear your motor down repeatedly.

What type of clutch are you using? I'm interested to know, so that I can compile some data on the RWD engines. It's something about them that spooks me.

Dee

Post by **knightrider** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:27 am

c-rad wrote:O-ring your block? Oh, so you can blow pieces of pistons and rod through the bottom of the motor instead? lol. o-ringing is for people who are running like 30+psi with a fully built motor. Also, are you saying the stock CA gasket doesn't have the fire rings at the top of each cylinder? If your stock gasket didn't have that, it's probably because the seal was crap and they got burnt up. I've never seen ANY hg without fire rings.

obviously you dont know what i am talking about, if you cut open a SR20DET headgasket, or any relatively new HG, you will see a piece of wire inside the fire ring. this is a cheaper alternative to o-ringing the block while creating a better seal. the CA did not come with this. also, i agree that the stock HG is fine for most ppl, that have stock motors. however my engine is going to be built, and tuned by someone with 30+ yrs of expirence, hi comp and hi boost, i want the best seal i can get.

boost_boy, im running a bastard setup, i have a SR20Det alum flywheel and a 250mm 300zxTT organic disk and 300zxTT PP all from JWT.
Modified by knightrider at 3:03 PM 9/24/2005

Post by **sdtouge** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:59 pm

what compression knightrider?

Post by **sideways danny** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:56 pm

I wouldn't use it on a head gasket myself, any good head gasket should be impregnated with sealer compound already, using additional sealer will cause hydraulicing and you'll blow the gasket again

c-rad wrote:
Permatex makes it and it's called Copper Gasket Spray. It helps seal the gasket to both the head and the block.

Post by **nismo_chk** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:24 pm

ok. so you bring up a good point.. can you back it up any further? b/c now i dont know what to do.. my bf and dad said the copper stuff sounds good and they agreed i should use it, but now you say this.. so please give more info if you can.. thanks!

Post by **boost_boy** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:17 pm

nismo_chk wrote:ok. so you bring up a good point.. can you back it up any further? b/c now i dont know what to do.. my bf and dad said the copper stuff sounds good and they agreed i should use it, but now you say this.. so please give more info if you can.. thanks!

Let me tell you something and this is not to upstage any member's preference as sideways danny has his, the stuff works as I actually have it on my NISMO metal headgasket that I've removed from time to time and removed the coating it had on it. We wouldn't steer you wrong ! I think our credentials around here speak for themselves. You're surrounded by 4 moderators who each have their own merits/accolades and a gang of knowledgeable members with some moving from other car company camps and bringing their experience with them to the CA side of the world.

I have over 9 years of working with the CA series motors and 16 years on Nissan products in general, so I'll say this again and you can take it for what it's worth, get you a stock headgasket, you can spray it with copper spray if you want to, but is not a big necessity (It certainly won't hurt it), get you some fresh stock headbolts and go boost till your little engine melts a piston or something to that effect.

Dee

Post by **knightrider** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:46 pm

sdtouge wrote:what compression knightrider?

the engine that i just seized was a totally stock slut-o-matic CA that i got for 400$my original CA that i got is being rebuilt now ahead of schedule because of the other one crapping out on me, forged 9.5:1 or 10:1 pistons, tomei metal HG, custom ground cams, custom intake plentum and custom SS321 manifold and full exhaust, disco potato, 460 injectors, s13 blacktop SR ecu custom tuned.

staying on topic, i agree with boost_boy, use the copper spray, its good stuff, ive used it on many buildups ive done, and it wont cause any problems, its not RTV, its not that thick. so i dont know what sideways danny is talking about. i dunno if he accually knows the stuff we are talking about.

Post by **float_6969** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:04 am

Knightrider, from experience, don't go with the 10:1 unless this is going to run race gas only. At 9.5:1 on my CA, on 91 Octane, with an SR T25, you've really got to pull the a lot of timing out as the boost increases. It would be worse with 10:1. I've still got work to do as far as timing is concerned, but it's not too far off and I've definatly had mine too advanced a couple of times an had it knock. It's very easy to do it now...

Post by **NeedCAforS13** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:06 am

boost_boy wrote:I have over 9 years of working with the CA series motors and 16 years on Nissan products in general, so I'll say this again and you can take it for what it's worth, get you a stock headgasket, you can spray it with copper spray if you want to, but is not a big necessity (It certainly won't hurt it), get you some fresh stock headbolts and go boost till your little engine melts a piston or something to that effect.

I too used copper spray on my stock gasket and mating surfaces with new OEM headbolts. And 2+ years later of daily driven 10psi, no hiccups *crosses fingers*

Sean

Post by **nismo_chk** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:30 am

ok great.. thanks alot guys.. looks like as soon as i get the head checked out.. ill be spraying the gasket.. are you guys saying to spray the head bolts as well or not?

Post by **CA19DET** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:50 am

i believe on the copper spray thing for re-used metal gaskets, on my first assembly, my HKS 1.6 (3 piece metal) had a coating, but when i re-used it you can see it was gone in places, we cleaned teh surfaces and sprayed it with copperspray.. its sealing perfect, seen 20psi, T3/T4E stock slugs and rods

slightly off topic: why do all the high comp, cams, intake, exhaust end use a tiny turbo?? get a bigger GT25/28 (GT2871R ) sized turbo or T3/T4 hybrid and get the better response from the high comp and better numbers/power..

head gasket

head gasket

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