GPS Map Updates

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RGG
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GPS Map Updates

Postby RGG » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:16 pm

I am highly disappointed that Nissan doesn't update maps on the GPS for free. I purchased my Rogue about a year ago and the salesman told me that map updates were free, I asked him to specifically check for me before the purchase. About two weeks ago the message appeared on my GPS that a new map update was available. I had an oil change scheduled so I asked about updating the map and was surprised that the service manager told me that I had to call someone and obtain a code at a cost of $89.99. If the salesman was truthful with me I can tell you I would not have bought this car, I have not purchased other vehicles for a lot less. This is BS and Nissan should supply map updates at least for the warranty period for free. Never again Nissan will I buy from you. :wtf2:


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darylzero
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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby darylzero » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:36 pm

I understand that you are pissed, but this is not Nissan's fault. It is the shitty salesman's fault. Try talking to the manager there and tell them what the sales d!ck said to you. If they don't give you the update for free and nothing less, then tell them you will be contacting Nissan USA. This would cost the dealer 0 dollars as I believe it's just updated from an SD card.
You could also get it from ebay.
buy it here, http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-2011-2012- ... 3f23d4c772

Then sell it on ebay for the same price when done :naughty: Of course I would accept nothing less than free updates from your Nissan dealership.
Last edited by darylzero on Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ImStricken06
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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby ImStricken06 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:42 pm

very sad story. seems to be the norm among many nissan dealers. sad to say, as a very loyal nissan gear head for 10+ years = i just bought a hyundai tonight. sorry nissan, but your lame designs, and piss poor customer service killed it. Hyundai took me away

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Rogue One
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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby Rogue One » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:26 pm

darylzero wrote:I understand that you are pissed, but this is not Nissan's fault. It is the s*** salesman's fault. Try talking to the manager there and tell them what the sales d*** said to you. If they don't give you the update for free and nothing less, then tell them you will be contacting Nissan USA. This would cost the dealer 0 dollars as I believe it's just updated from an SD card.
You could also get it from ebay.
buy it here, http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-2011-2012- ... 3f23d4c772

Then sell it on ebay for the same price when done :naughty: Of course I would accept nothing less than free updates from your Nissan dealership.
I rather don't think that will work. You have to input an activation code in order to use the updated maps. The nav map system won't work without an SD card in the slot, and once you've activated the update, you'll need to keep the new card in the slot.

BTW, that link's for the previous map 25920 ZW00D, the current map is 25920 ZW00E.

RGG
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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby RGG » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:51 am

As I stated in my post I had the salesman check on the map updates but I forgot to mention that he checked with the sales manager and the sales manager was the one that said the map updates were free. One of your posts states that it isn't Nissan's fault it's the salesman’s fault I have to disagree. Nissan should not put a nav system in a car that requires paying for updates, there are GPS's out there that give you free life time map updates for free several of the TomTom GPS's offer free life time map updates and can be purchased for less than $100.

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darylzero
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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby darylzero » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:22 am

Rogue One wrote: I rather don't think that will work. You have to input an activation code in order to use the updated maps. The nav map system won't work without an SD card in the slot, and once you've activated the update, you'll need to keep the new card in the slot.

BTW, that link's for the previous map 25920 ZW00D, the current map is 25920 ZW00E.
Didn't know you need an activation code. Even so you can just copy the SD card to another one and keep it in your car. Does the activation code just activate it or does it somehow phone home and make it so that activation code can't be used again??

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sprocket
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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby sprocket » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:32 am

RGG, is this the first time you have purchased a vehicle with a factory navigation system? You may not realize it but just about EVERY OEM charges for map updates, even during the warranty period. If you're deciding to never buy a Nissan vehicle again solely because they don't provide map updates for free, you'll never be able to buy a new vehicle from any OEM in the future! Your expectations are not in line with actual conditions, which is something you should have looked in to before purchasing a vehicle.

You cannot compare portable GPS units to OEM integrated GPS systems. Yes, TomTom/Garmin/etc have some models with lifetime map updates, that's made clear to you when you buy the unit. They also have units that don't have lifetime map updates. You shop and decide which is the best one for you. Cost of portable systems are a lot cheaper than factory systems but they don't offer the same level of integration and anti-theft appeal. People get factory systems even though they're more expensive because they don't want to have to use suction cups, hide it away everytime they park so no one breaks in to their car, deal with turning down volume on stereo to hear prompts, etc.

Pulled prices from http://allthingsnav.navigation.com/page/shop-update but Ebay and some dealers may have them for cheaper. Point is, free map updates are not provided even during the warranty period.
2012 Honda CR-V USB map update is $149, on sale for $99.
2012 Nissan Rogue SD map update is $149, on sale for $99.
2012 Chrysler Town & Country map update for all three systems are $149.
2012 Hyundai Santa Fe USB map update is $199.
2012 Ford Escape disc map update is $199.

In the future, I advise to do your own research or ask on forums, there are many helpful people here that can confirm things for you. It's unfortunate that your dealership's sales dept misled you, I agree with darylzero, take it up with the dealership. Good luck.

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby RGG » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:05 am

Sprocket, I did try and negotiate free map updates when I purchased the car but I was mislead by the dealerships sales manager and the salesman when told they were free. I guess the next time I will have to get it in writing or not buy a car with a nav system installed in it. For the reason of being lied to about free map updates by the dealerships sales manager and the salesman I will not be buying any more new Nissan’s. One might expect to be mislead on buying a used car because used car salesman sell different makes and models of cars that are not of their particular brand but a new car salesman sells their make and only their make and they are expected to know about what they are selling. Asking a salesman whether a map update is free or not is not a hard question to answer truthfully by any means. Asking a salesman what a valve setting is for an engine would be since they are not mechanics. I don’t like being lied to and I feel I was lied too.

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sprocket
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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby sprocket » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:37 am

I feel your pain, I've had my fair share of dealership problems, both with new and used.

I've had a bad experience at 2 Nissan dealerships, which ultimately resulted in me never wanting to do business with them again and I''ve advised everyone I know about those dealerships so they can be informed. I now use a 3rd dealership and they have been great.

My friend had a bad experience at a BMW dealership where their sales floor ignored her (she had walked in ready to buy a 3 Series but was ignored for 45 minutes ... I presume they saw her pull up in an older CR-V, dressed casually, and didn't want to waste their time ... their loss) and went with a different brand because that was the only BMW dealership in her area. Unfortunately, some dealerships seem to think they can get away with it.

Please update us on what happens when you follow up with that dealership.

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby Rogue One » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:54 am

darylzero wrote:Didn't know you need an activation code. Even so you can just copy the SD card to another one and keep it in your car. Does the activation code just activate it or does it somehow phone home and make it so that activation code can't be used again??
I have no idea how they have the code tied in to the card. It's my understanding that the map system is not windows or mac based, so I doubt if you can just copy the card.

Nissan Navigation Store http://www.navigation.com/is-bin/INTERS ... nuItem=FAQ
Q. I purchased an activation code, but I've lost the e-mail that contained it. Can my activation code be retrieved?
A. Yes, please call 1-888-661-9995.

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Rogue One
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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby Rogue One » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:05 am

sprocket wrote:I feel your pain, I've had my fair share of dealership problems, both with new and used.

I've had a bad experience at 2 Nissan dealerships, which ultimately resulted in me never wanting to do business with them again and I''ve advised everyone I know about those dealerships so they can be informed. I now use a 3rd dealership and they have been great.

My friend had a bad experience at a BMW dealership where their sales floor ignored her (she had walked in ready to buy a 3 Series but was ignored for 45 minutes ... I presume they saw her pull up in an older CR-V, dressed casually, and didn't want to waste their time ... their loss) and went with a different brand because that was the only BMW dealership in her area. Unfortunately, some dealerships seem to think they can get away with it.

Please update us on what happens when you follow up with that dealership.
This sounds like a great idea for a new thread, but should probably go under General Chat so everyone on Nico can see it and relate their story.

Short story, my partner had an experience at a stealership that was so bad, he broke a door of hits hinges on the showroom floor.

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby darylzero » Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:20 pm

Rogue One wrote:
darylzero wrote:Didn't know you need an activation code. Even so you can just copy the SD card to another one and keep it in your car. Does the activation code just activate it or does it somehow phone home and make it so that activation code can't be used again??
I have no idea how they have the code tied in to the card. It's my understanding that the map system is not windows or mac based, so I doubt if you can just copy the card.
If it's digital it can be copied. Doesn't matter what file system it uses, it can be cloned. just an FYI

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby darylzero » Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:23 pm

ImStricken wrote:very sad story. seems to be the norm among many nissan dealers. sad to say, as a very loyal nissan gear head for 10+ years = i just bought a hyundai tonight. sorry nissan, but your lame designs, and piss poor customer service killed it. Hyundai took me away
sprocket wrote:2012 Hyundai Santa Fe USB map update is $199.
Easy Hyundai fan boi!! :lolling: This is a Nissan forum and you are a Mod! :poke:

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby ImStricken06 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:31 pm

we didnt buy a navi in the car lolol. not the rogue, not the santa fe (but thanks for the price quotes anyway lololol) i actually just bought a good Garmin Nuvi and will install it. i HATE oem navi's. over priced and costly to maintain. nothing but pain in the a55. i will say that infiniti gave us free upgrades as long as the car is under the bumper to bumper warranty.

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby RGG » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:54 pm

To all - I was at the dealership the other day when I got my oil changed and talked to the salesman that sold me the ar. As I thought would happen he didn't remember our conversation about free map updates and realistically I wouldn’t imagine he would since it has been a year since I bought the car. He did check with the new sales manager and the service manager and came back and acted surprised that map updates cost $99.00 on sale until June 2013 normally $149.00.
I did email Nissan USA today and probably either won’t get an answer or it will be sometime before I do get one. I’ll post any reply I get but don’t look for one anytime soon, just my opinion. What I did do was use the remind me in a year option on the nav screen message so hopefully it won’t remind me of my misery.
I usually wouldn’t be this pissed but since being over 60 and out of work now for almost two years, out of unemployment and unable to find work you can imagine with no income except what little pension I have coming in money is really tight. Anyway my misery and I’ll get through it; it’ll just take a little longer than it usually would. I guess you have to get everything in writing nowadays?
:mad:

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby Rogue One » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:27 am

darylzero wrote:
Rogue One wrote:I have no idea how they have the code tied in to the card. It's my understanding that the map system is not windows or mac based, so I doubt if you can just copy the card.
If it's digital it can be copied. Doesn't matter what file system it uses, it can be cloned. just an FYI
Since our favorite Mod. hasn't pointed this out , please allow me...
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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby ImStricken06 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:50 am

Rogue One wrote:"Since our favorite Mod. hasn't pointed this out , please allow me...
while i acknowledge that you are 100% right, i chose to say nothing because paying for map updates is the biggest scam in the business. every portable unit offers navquest map updates for free; and these portable units cost only $99-$300. while the navigation thats installed into car's costs anywhere from $2,000-$9,000 and do not come with lifetime free updates. its nothing more than a money grab. and frankly if one side doesn't care about ripping off struggling single mothers, struggling lost young adults that cant seem to find themselves and a decent job(50% of college grads), seniors, then i dont give a hoot about some multimillion dollar company loosing some revenue from a "borrowed" map update. while i dont support piracy and illegal activity, nor the hippy mentality that "everything should be shared & free" - but i certainly wont rip anyone for saving some cash. (because that can become a slippery slope where anyone admitting to going over the speed limit, hacking the parking brake & dvd player function, etc all will need "warnings".)

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby zummuz » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:27 am

The SD-Cards for Nissan Connect cannot be copied to another SD-Card (I mean a working clone) even for your own back-up.
The content of the card is write-protected from factory, there is no way for you to erase, format or move the data from it.
You can only copy the content but this is useless because each card have a crypted file on it with the hardware ID of that card. So even if you copy all the files to another card, that card will have another serial number and at start-up the Navi unit will tell you that cannot use that card.
At start-up the Navi checks the SD-Card. If a new version of card is inserted - it asks for up-date. If you make the up-date and at next start-up you put again the old card, navi will ask for downgrade. If downgrade is refused then navi will not work as navi, only radio, CD and USB.
So - only chance - buy new card and keep it inside the unit. Anything else will fail.
And you should be happy with 99$ for a new card. In Europe the card will cost you almost 300$ !!!

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby ImStricken06 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:39 am

zummuz wrote:The SD-Cards for Nissan Connect cannot be copied to another SD-Card (I mean a working clone) even for your own back-up.
The content of the card is write-protected from factory, there is no way for you to erase, format or move the data from it.
You can only copy the content but this is useless because each card have a crypted file on it with the hardware ID of that card. So even if you copy all the files to another card, that card will have another serial number and at start-up the Navi unit will tell you that cannot use that card.
At start-up the Navi checks the SD-Card. If a new version of card is inserted - it asks for up-date. If you make the up-date and at next start-up you put again the old card, navi will ask for downgrade. If downgrade is refused then navi will not work as navi, only radio, CD and USB.
So - only chance - buy new card and keep it inside the unit. Anything else will fail.
And you should be happy with 99$ for a new card. In Europe the card will cost you almost 300$ !!!
not that i am condoning it: but there is no way to clone it? really? (im not a big computer nerd, so i dont know this stuff to well)

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby Rogue One » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:25 am

ImStricken wrote:
zummuz wrote:The SD-Cards for Nissan Connect cannot be copied to another SD-Card (I mean a working clone) even for your own back-up.
The content of the card is write-protected from factory, there is no way for you to erase, format or move the data from it.
You can only copy the content but this is useless because each card have a crypted file on it with the hardware ID of that card. So even if you copy all the files to another card, that card will have another serial number and at start-up the Navi unit will tell you that cannot use that card.
At start-up the Navi checks the SD-Card. If a new version of card is inserted - it asks for up-date. If you make the up-date and at next start-up you put again the old card, navi will ask for downgrade. If downgrade is refused then navi will not work as navi, only radio, CD and USB.
So - only chance - buy new card and keep it inside the unit. Anything else will fail.
And you should be happy with 99$ for a new card. In Europe the card will cost you almost 300$ !!!
not that i am condoning it: but there is no way to clone it? really? (im not a big computer nerd, so i dont know this stuff to well)
I'm looking into it. BTW, I initially agreed with what ZUMMUZ posted, until I remembered that my last Rogue had a defective head unit that was replaced under warranty. I had to return to the dealership to retrieve the SD card from the previous unit as they forgot to put in in the new one. As far as I can recall, there was no error message, nor was I prompted for any security code.

So, unless the new head unit came with it's own SD map card and that's what the service tech gave me rather than my old card, it would seem that MAYBE IF the card can be cloned (insert usual disclaimers) it should theoretically work.

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby zummuz » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:14 am

Each SD-Card have a unique CID. That numer is only writeable by manufacturer. These cards with maps contain a file in which is encrypted the CID of that card. If you read the cards you will notice some files with a different creation date regarding the other files on the card. Those are the tricky files. And after the writing process some bits are fused to the sd-card so the card is not writeable or eraseable anymore. It's a readonly card.
You can read the cid of a sd-card but is useless since you cannot write it or modify. You cannot create a new encrypted file with the cid of a blank SDcard since you don't have the algorithm. You cannot write the new maps on your old card since original SDcard is readonly.
So - cloning is not a way.

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby ImStricken06 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:45 am

very interesting. from my understanding, there is always a way to copy data. If there is some kind of encryption it will be harder, but you can always hack, crack, root or jailbreak a gadget. People with droids, iphones and AppleTv know what I am talking about. but since i cant allow this site to host such illegal activity, we will just leave it at that. (one must do their own research i guess lol)

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby darylzero » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:47 am

I don't see how even if part of the card is encrypted matters. If you clone it bit for bit it's an exact copy.

What it sounds like is the head unit phone's home when it gets the map updates and "marks" the serial # (or whatever you want to call it) on the card as used in their database. So if you copy that card and put it in someone else's car it will check the database to see if that card has already been used (maybe tying it to the VIN # or something else).

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby zummuz » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:08 pm

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Each SD-Card have a unique CID which is engraved by the manufacturer in the production process. The SD-Card in that stage is still writeable and readable. But that CID cannot even be read on PC or other PC-based reader. That can be only read in a mobile device with a special function or in a special reader based direct on a microcontroller. NOT IN A PC OR LAPTOP.
Filling a SD-card with maps is following this procedure:
1. Maps are written to the card.
2. Based on CID on each SD-card is generated an encrypted file and written to the card. This file will have the exact date of production for each card.
3. Some bits are erased on the SD-Card so the card will only be readonly for the rest of his life.

Looks a perfect loop.
There are some vulnerable points here but there is so much work only to find a way to clone a 100$ card? Not worth it.
Believe me - cloning will NEVER work to make a backup and to run into a unit.

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby casperfun » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:20 pm

I think the op should have gotten the map update as promise just as a salesperson should give free floor mats if promised during a sale. Too bad the salesperson was not decent enough to keep their promise.

One thing you can do for the internet sauvy consumer is to name this salesperson who deceived you on the free map updates on some dealership review site so other consumers can avoid this person with no integrity. Some of these sites allow you to chose the name of the person you dealt with. Many people like to read dealership reviews online to see how others have fared with them. You'll be very surprised how the owner/general managers of these dealerships actually respond on these forums trying to cover their butts and even try to resolve a problem with their customers.

Food for thought :inoutgay:

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby ImStricken06 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:28 pm

zummuz wrote:Each SD-Card have a unique CID which is engraved by the manufacturer in the production process.
dangit cleetus! :crazy:

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby ras_oscar » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:54 am

I have a handheld GPS that I regularly update for free with OpenStreetMaps. I researched the possibility of (legally) creating an SD card with OpenStreetMaps for my 2012 Nissmo satnav and was not successful. I asked the question both here and on the OpenStreetMaps forum. I suspect that Nissan actually assembles the head end unit from sub assemblies manufactured by several different suppliers. If they wanted to provide free lifetime map updates, they would need to negotiate and pay for that service. Bottom line is, while updating maps 4 times a year can be fun, the level of detail provided on the navteq map is fairly rudimentary and likey will not change greatly from year to year. If you have a need for more detailed maps, get a good handheld and update regularly from OpenStreetMap. I have Microsoft streets and trips that I update every 5 years or so. It is based on Navteq data. I am presently using 2009 and see no great need to update for a couple years.
Last edited by ras_oscar on Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby zummuz » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:16 am

ras_oscar wrote:...If they wanted to provide free lifetime map updates, they would need to negotiate and pay for that service...
That's right.
Nissan Connect is made by Bosch and maps are made by Navteq.
Nissan has to pay at Navteq for maps yearly and to Bosch for coding them to the unit. That's why Nissan ask money for up-dates.
Up-dates are once a year for this unit.
I don't know about US maps, but best Europe maps are made by Navteq.

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby ImStricken06 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:25 am

zummuz wrote:
ras_oscar wrote:...If they wanted to provide free lifetime map updates, they would need to negotiate and pay for that service...
That's right.
Nissan Connect is made by Bosch and maps are made by Navteq.
Nissan has to pay at Navteq for maps yearly and to Bosch for coding them to the unit. That's why Nissan ask money for up-dates.
Up-dates are once a year for this unit.
I don't know about US maps, but best Europe maps are made by Navteq.
i just updated my garmin with my free :naughty: maps update, and it too is Navteq

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Re: GPS Map Updates

Postby zengshengliu » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:28 am

That why I prefer a portable unit instead of a in dash unit.
My 3 year old TomTom came with livetime traffic and map update :)


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