lol - actually, a lot of police dept's, SWAT teams, defense contractors all "shop around" for the right calibers that their officers should have. its one of the most important topics because higher pressure rounds ARE harder to shoot.Mr1der wrote:Massive recoil on .45 acp?Women are gonna tell you to stop being a p**** on that one.
their quality or effectiveness was never in question. i do think its a great gun, but its not the best home defense/carry weapon. 9mm, .40, .45 all almost perform the same.The 21 is a fine pistol and .45 is a great round.
thats only now, during this ammo shortage crisis. (because most people own 9mm.) once s*** returns to normal, .45 will once again be more expensive. and why do you think 9mm is so popular now a days?It seems to be easier to get ammo for than some of the others. 9mm is just depressing to find at non gouged prices.
the g17, g21, g22 will ALL feel the same - that is until its fired. lolGreg, if you like the way the pistol feels in your hand, go for it. They're a solid buy. Most ranges will have a Glock of some sort to rent, likely a 21, 22 and 17 all together.
WDRacing wrote:Couple things, saying massive recoil is total fiction.
are you now resorting to comparing your glock21 & glock22 (full size) to the smaller sized frame of a glock19? really? how is that apples to apples? guess what - i have tried a g19 & my g17 (both 9mm) back to back, and the glock19 gave slightly more recoil/stress to my hands than my glock17! of course a smaller framed 9mm weapon is gonna feel similar to those larger framed weapons who have larger calibers - its basic physics. lets stick to g17/21/22 only since they are the same size/frame.My G21 has a barely perceivable difference in kick when compared to the G22 and slightly more than the G19
idk about you, but i buy guns based on how they will be when i really need them, versus how tacticool it will be at the rangeThe muzzle flash will bigger, but any muzzle flash will be blinding at night with the lights off. As far as loud goes...are we really using how loud a gun is as a purchasing factor? 99.99999% of all the shots will be done with ear defenders on, at a range.
even a 9mm will give you hearing damage if fired inside a car; maybe even permanent hearing damage! but a .45 will make it even more painful and disorienting during a time that will already be stressed. not cool.The odds of Greg discharging a firearm in his house/car are extremely slim. But because it could happen, the 9mm and .40 are extremely loud without hearing protection, the .45 will be a little louder.
gee... i wonder why? lolyou're more apt to find .45 on the shelf than you are 9mm, because 9mm is extremely popular and is higher demand.
9mm, .40, .45 all show very similar results during ballistic testing, when conducted by the feds. they all passed the 12inches of penetration on ballistic jell. anything further simply over penetrates the body and exits uselessly.But if I'm going to put someone down with one round, I'll take a round of .45 ACP please.
its mostly perpetuated by those will small pee-pee's lol we all know of those who claim: if it aint a 45 its for my girlfriend to shoot.Just my .02. The great caliber debate will go on for as long as we're shooting hard rounds.
your right, the g21 is 2mm wider, and 5mm longer.Mr1der wrote:The 21 isn't going to feel Tue same as a 17, the frame is a good bit bigger to accommodate the 10mm round. (the G20 was designed before they fit the frame for the .45 auto round.)
trueAnd yes, the big three are all going to penetrate 12" or better, but the 45 is gonna punch a bigger wound channel.
soft? a 45 is anything BUT soft. its rough, loud, hard, and the recoil isnt fun. i think you are blinded by the "its the larger of the typical calibers carried". its funny but you see a lot of video's and talk in the gun community about how there is a select few guys that only want .45's. its like a Napoleon syndrome or something lolAny of them are gonna get it done, but I love me some .45 for its soft shooting nature.
get a conversion kit. i got my advantage arms and love it. its perfect for beginner shooters, for me to practice with, and for cheap small game hunting.(no reason to waste center fire rounds on small game)The whole reason I got my 19 was to have a cheaper pistol to shoot and something easy to teach a new shooter on.
I'll be doing having some more range time on Wednesday. The guy I usually shoot with has 4-5 Glocks. I'll pay particular attention to the recoil and flash and report back.ImStricken wrote: soft? a 45 is anything BUT soft. its rough, loud, hard, and the recoil isnt fun. i think you are blinded by the "its the larger of the typical calibers carried". its funny but you see a lot of video's and talk in the gun community about how there is a select few guys that only want .45's. its like a Napoleon syndrome or something lol
not a fair comparison in my opinion. we are talking about full sized 45 vs a smaller sized 9mm. of course the smaller framed will give you a higher recoil shock. so the comparison between the two is kinda a mute point if you are simply comparing the recoil of the rounds.WDRacing wrote:I used the Glock 19 because that's what was on-hand. Being that my G21 only kicked slightly more than the smaller framed G19, I would think my point about perceived recoil was even more on point
idk why the g19 even made it into the discussion- its a totaly diff beast, being a smaller frame. the larger of the two, the g17 will have less kick because both the g17 & 19 are 9mm. but how can you compare the two against a full size 45? greg is looking at a full-size, so thats why i am only bringing in a g17 into this. bringing in a g19 is worthless since, he is not looking at a compact/smaller frame.By your own words a G17 will have even less kick than the G19, which validates my claim about the G21 not having "massive recoil".
absolutely it is. i never said its unmanageable. i am simply saying that its a rougher round in general to shoot/carry as a ccw. its a much harder recoil, louder, and you end up having less ammo to shoot if you are in a scenario of multiple attackers(thats the scariest & most important part of it all)The .45 has more recoil, yes, but it's completely manageable.
to be 100% honest, that also depends on the type of ammo being used. so i agree that muzzle flash can be slightly altered to your liking.Muzzle flash, I haven't fired the .45 and the 9mm back to back, so I can't say how much more one has than the other. Is more muzzle flash and more air displacement a bad thing in confined quarters, you betcha.
i agree. now ask yourself why its more desirable, acquired, and used?Why is the 9mm more popular, because it's more common. There are more 9mm pistols than there are .45. It's also very popular because of the higher capacity.
dont get me wrong, if i find a great deal on a used 40 or 45 - I WILL BUY IT lol... its just not something id want to invest in if i was buying a new/first gun. and since greg is buying his first gun in a long time - i think this discussion we have going in is super valuable.I happen to like the .45 ACP.
im 5'11" and 200lbs, with smaller hands, followed up by girly for-arms arms LOL (shut up, im half jewish, and working with what i got LOL)WDRacing wrote:I prefer the .45 and I'm 6'2" 220...
the smaller framed gun had less recoil, because it was a smaller round(9mm)! you are not comparing apples to apples.WDRacing wrote:because the smaller framed gun had slightly less recoil
actually we are. greg asked to get a review on the g21 (so that tells me he wants a FULL sized handgun). i offered an alternative to the g21, which is the g17 (another FULL sized handgun). its the same size (minus a mm or 2) but it is chambered in 9mm, which gives some advantages/disadvantages (in my opinion more good, than bad).WDRacing wrote:We're not talking about frame size
You made the statement that the .45acp has massive recoil. I'm just trying to say it doesn't and that you're exaggerating.ImStricken wrote: i have tried a g19 & my g17 (both 9mm) back to back, and the glock19 gave slightly more recoil/stress to my hands than my glock17! of course a smaller framed 9mm weapon is gonna feel similar to those larger framed weapons who have larger calibers - its basic physics.
if you say so lolWDRacing wrote:So regardless of frame size, the G21 will have an even less perceivable recoil when compared to the G17.
LOLOLOLOL i do!WDRacing wrote:I don't have dainty little b**** hands though
JFWY
try them on what, paper targets? lolWDRacing wrote:Did you check out those Grizzly rounds? Have you ever tried them?
i know i was mocking, about how NJ doesnt give you the ability to have an outdoor / private range where you can shoot stuff (water jugs, wood, etc) and see the damage a round creates.Mr1der wrote:It's important to know where they place and feed before you carry.
i agree man - but we in New comuJersey are afraid of the cops. just a few months ago someone got arrested and charged for "discharge of a firearm" for shooting his bow & arrow in his backyard.WDRacing wrote:Meanwhile, they're settling for a round that will travel through twice as much sheet rock after it plows straight through a person. Sometimes people are stupid. FMJ is great for animals, not so much for people.