G50 Aftermarket Injector Alternative!!??

[Q451990]

Heath,

Are you running these in your Q yet?

DM

I am... they have been in since early October... so far so good!

Heath

As a side note... here's a link to my pressure tester thread if anyone is reading this later on.

zerothread?id=366243

[Denver90Q]

Finally gave in and ordered a set of BWD (Borg Warner/Standard Motors products) injectors for about $120 each from Autopartsgiant.com. They seem to have the best price. Most places charge over $200 for the Bosch injectors but these guys have them for about $100 each.

No sense replacing just one if the rest are going to follow shortly.

[Drake57]

... On a related matter does anyone know what the ohm readings (infinity?) are for injectors that fail open? The local infiniti dealer claims that usually the injectors fail open and that this can result in hydrolocking the engine.

Sounds like the dealer means by "fail open" that the injector is stuck open, releasing fuel constantly, not that the coil in the injector is open electrically.

Electrically, an injector is a coil of magnet wire. Magnet wire is insulated so that adjacent turns will not conduct into their neighbors. Varnish is used as an insulator because it's thin, allowing more turns into a tight space, but it is relatively fragile, compared with vinyl or other insulators used in other applications.

If the wire breaks, an ohm meter will read infinity - no conductance whatsoever. If the insulation begins to break down, one could read a lower than normal resistance.

That an injector failure that constantly dumps fuel would have any relationship to coil resistance is not clear, unless physical stress causes both electrical and mechanical failure alike.

A pressure bleed down is a better check for a "stuck open" injector failure than a resistance check.
Modified by Drake57 at 11:07 AM 12/18/2008

[Q451990]

I have never head of an injector failing in a manner that renders it physically open, dumping fuel into the car. I guess it's possible, but not likely.

I think there may be some confusion on "electrically open" (coil failure) and physically open.

Heath

[Infinitiguy19]

Hey I just thought of an other question :

Can we replace each injector individually or do we have to replace all 8 or one bank at a time?

[Q451990]

Sort of like asking if you can replace one tire at a time... you can but it's not ideal. As the injectors age, they will open and close a little more slowly (latency)... but the ECU can adjust them as a bank by looking at the data from the O2 sensor. But if your injectors are mismatched (some newer, or flowing better than others) some cylinders will run rich, and some will run lean... the ECU is only smart enough to get the average of all 4 cylinders as close as possible to the ideal air/fuel ratio.

So in order from best to worse: Replace all 8 --> Replace one bank --> Replace one at a time

Heath

[Infinitiguy19]

Good to know then, I will see if I can find a price for the phase one injector and go from there.

But I hope these injectors really are the true fix for this problem but only time will tell.

[Q451990]

Just remember we have no test data on the BWD Phase 1 injectors... and only my one test on the Phase 2 style. So if you're going to stick with Phase 1's you're going into uncharted waters.

Heath

[Infinitiguy19]

Do you think, Deachworks would test just one injecor?

If so I will be the guinne pig.

[Denver90Q]

Do you think, Deachworks would test just one injecor?

If so I will be the guinne pig.

I'm sure they would and may have already. Remember the phase 2 is a pintle less design and is also about $40 cheaper.

[Q45tech]

Only way to test an alternative injector is to actually install and subject it to vehicle conditions and fuels.................an accurate lab simulation might cost hundreds of thousands to duplicate what happens in vehicle in just 1 year.

My 4 new oem injectors have lasted 7 months to date but so have the orginal ones which already had 18 years and 318,000 miles. Doesn't prove much until a few more years have passed.

[Denver90Q]

True, even my last set of new OEM phase ones made it to about 15k miles before they started failing. I guess that's why Nissan only warranties them for 12k miles.

[Q45tech]

The big question is why are the other 4 still functioning after 18+ years and 320,000 miles.

[Denver90Q]

Don't know why they fail at different rates but I'm sure if you keep using E10 they will fail soon. Per Deatschwerks, they no longer deal in or work on Phase 1 injectors due to high failure rates.

FYI per Deatschwerks (Mike) the dealers statement that injectors usually fail open is incorrect as they usually only fail open if there is dirt stuck in the pintle or a bad spring.

Also, had three Nissan fuel pumps fail recently due to fuel additives (?) as previously posted.
Modified by Denver90Q at 1:46 PM 12/19/2008

[q45j30guy]

I finally got around to the of pulling the Plenum on my 94 Q and all the fun stuff that comes with it. I have one bad injector and found this thread in searching for my replacement options. Very informative and helpful, thank you.

I want to share that in checking Advance Autos website I found they list the BWD injectors under the Standard name too. They price the Standard that fits my car $72 higher then the same injector under the BWD brand name. Just a heads up...Buyer beware.

here is the link. Look at the first one listed and the third from the last, both the same just different name.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.c...Set=A

Merry Christmas to all

[matdotcom2000]

I love this thread, replaced two of my fuel injectors with refurbished so far so good.

[Trumpkin]

I'm looking to do all eight injectors-basically maint. Is there a site to get these from. What else do I need for injector replacement?

[Denver90Q]

Autopartsgiant.com has BWD (Borg Warner/Standard Motors products) injectors for about $120 each. They seem to have the best price.

You also might pickup some o-rings and intake gaskets.

[Q451990]

Advance Auto Parts has them online for $116 each:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.c...Set=A

My local store offered to sell them to me cheaper if I was buying all eight, but would not commit to allowing me to return them if they didn't test well at Deatschwerks. So I went to O'Reilly and they matched Advance's offer, which appears to have been $101.88

Be sure to read my previous posts in this thread to know the markings that differentiate the ones made in Greenville, SC vs. the old stock that was produced in China.

I would buy the injectors locally and order all of the other parts from IOS. Oh, and the injectors come with new o-rings - so you shouldn't need to order those.

Heath

[maxnix]

I replaced two of my fuel injectors with refurbished so far so good.

"Refurbished" means you got charged extra for "used."

[Denver90Q]

Advance Auto Parts has them online for $116 each:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.c...Set=A

My local store offered to sell them to me cheaper if I was buying all eight, but would not commit to allowing me to return them if they didn't test well at Deatschwerks. So I went to O'Reilly and they matched Advance's offer, which appears to have been $101.88

Be sure to read my previous posts in this thread to know the markings that differentiate the ones made in Greenville, SC vs. the old stock that was produced in China.

I would buy the injectors locally and order all of the other parts from IOS. Oh, and the injectors come with new o-rings - so you shouldn't need to order those.

Heath

The link you provided says $175 each and there are no O'Reilly's in Denver.

[Trumpkin]

Thanks guys. Still wondering how these will do with the JWT nos module.I'm thinking basically it's the same deal with oe injectors. All it does is open them up. Maybe I'd be best talking to Ben at jwt?

[Q451990]

The link you provided says $175 each and there are no O'Reilly's in Denver.

Perhaps it differs by ZIP Code, although when I tried 80002 it came up at the same $115.99? Remember that I'm talking about the phase 2 style as well. Phase 1's are more expensive in the BWD line.

Heath

[Denver90Q]

Heath, You are right it was the zip code. Apparently, zip code 80224 is $60 (50%) more than 80002? And if not confusing enough already, their prices are more for Niehoff injectors with their same part number (57674) and/or the Standard Motors injectors with the same OEM part number (16600-67u00-no color dot).

[maxnix]

Still wondering how these will do with the JWT nos module.

Pretty unsophisticated as it is basically on or off, no ramping.

Don't look for a long an happy engine life with it. All users here are now ex-members or junked it before it wore the engine.

[Q45tech]

Actually the peak maxium of stock Q injector is 11 milliseconds [10 millisecs with Nico reprogram] and ~~ 14 millisecs with Nitrous out of a maximum of 16.6 milliseconds.

So JWT never exceeds 80% duty cycle to avoid overheating coil failure.

The ecu transistor should have enough thermal heat sinking to allow this since a 13.5 second run would be max with Nitrous even in 120 F ambient.

[Q451990]

Heath, You are right it was the zip code. Apparently, zip code 80224 is $60 (50%) more than 80002?

Wow... you must live in a really, really nice neighborhood!

[silkysmoothyjud]

Screw it!!! Just buy new ones, not just for the peace of mind because you know, YOU KNOW they will work right. Buy new ones out of respect. More power to the Q and Joe has some wicked injectors for real. 7 of mine are from him. Silky smooth has a new meaning with a new rail of OEM and a NICO ECU. It puts mustangs to shame.

I use the #1 injector for those injectors that are left over, at or about 75% life left. As soon as the slightest vibration is felt, its gone. I only have one spare.

[Q451990]

Did you read the thread? Joe has no better advocate on this board that me... but Nissan's injectors just won't hold up to the crap sold as gas these days. That's the only reason I was willing to investigate an aftermarket alternative.

Heath

[maxnix]

Well, Heath, I think it time to begin Phase 2 of the test and start filling up with E85!