Fix Thread turned into Re-build thread! (built rb25 neo)

Post by **S14-NEO** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:28 am

sounds like some good progress...too bad you cant find the older style boost controllers...them bad boys are nearly indestructable...i am in LOVE with my Greddy Profec A...yeah you heard right, Profec A....TRUE JDM-NESS...hehe

Post by **boosted98gst** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:43 am

S14-NEO wrote:sounds like some good progress...too bad you cant find the older style boost controllers...them bad boys are nearly indestructable...i am in LOVE with my Greddy Profec A...yeah you heard right, Profec A....TRUE JDM-NESS...hehe

No joke my hks evc5 may not be all flashy like the new stuff, but its accurate, digital and can take a beating. Some of these new EBC's are junk.

Post by **sickness14** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:42 am

True that. but eiher way... E-01 > Tru-boost.

gear dependent boost... has a map sensor for feedback control. it'll be sweet. im trading the tru boost for the E-01 and a short shifter, my friend would rather keep his car all AEM, plus the screen is a little scratched on the Greddy unit. ill fix it though.

Post by **sickness14** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:52 pm

Just bought head #4. Regular RB25, complete with cams, cam gears, and missing the cam caps which i'll figure out.

Post by **Cjmartz2k** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:21 pm

Umm, with out the caps all of that is pretty much garbage. Sorry dude. The caps are machined to match the head. The only thing you can do is get another set of caps and line bore the set, but that costs more than another complete head would. How much did you pay for it?

Post by **sickness14** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:23 pm

awe man.

$245.

Post by **Cjmartz2k** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:27 pm

Just to recap options per our discussion from cheapest to most expensive......

1) get your $ back and find a set of turbo cams and put those on my n/a head with the weaker springs and cross your fingers---kinda iffy but drivable and you could make decent power keeping the rpms down

2) get the head you just bought and swap the stock turbo springs/cams on to my n/a head casting---drivable and you can make good power/rev it to 7500rpm'ish, but the stock cams will limit your power a bit. Also not sure of the shape of the old stock turbo springs.

3) order a set of aftermarket springs and get the n/a head and HKS cams/gears from me and put it all together---most expensive but you could rev to the limits of the hydraulic lifters and those cams should support up to 600-700hp

Another couple things like I mentioned before, I'm not sure how all of this will work with your Neo PFC since everything is Series I RB25 stuff. You'll need to use the older CAS which I *think* will still plug in and work with the PFC you've got. The way the VCT is actuated is different also, but that's a moot point if you go with option 3 since no VCT anyways. Also lastly, just make 100% certain your current rotating assembly will work with this (or any) head. I still worry about needing pistons with the correct pin height keeping in mind not only compression ration, but piston/valve contact and quench height.

Post by **sickness14** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:27 pm

EDIT: i posted this before i saw the above post

So this new head isnt usable. unless i can come up with a solution to finding cam caps that will work with this head, without a $1,200 line bore job on it, im going to be pissed.

If i get a complete RB25 head together, what do i do about the VCT solenoid and the CAS being i have a NEO ECU?

do i need to use the standard RB25 stuff, and wire it in to my connectors, or do i use the neo stuff on the standard head?

Someone said the R34 has different CAS than R33 head, and the cam mates the CAS with a key. is this different between S1 and S2 cams and CAS? Im so lost AGAIN.

Post by **Cjmartz2k** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:29 pm

LOL, beat you by seconds.

Post by **sickness14** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:32 pm

lol yeah. i found some interesting info, not sure what the outcome is of this discussion on this thread below, but it may help

http://forum.nistune.com/viewt...33ea1

Post by **sickness14** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:35 pm

BTW, chris,

do you have a CAS that will work with those HKS cams? I may just buy it all from you and pick up a nasty set of valve springs and go for gold on the dyno :p lol

Post by **Cjmartz2k** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:43 pm

I think I've got a couple sitting around yeah. It's probably worth finding out for sure the Neo PFC will read the signal from the Series I CAS though. I'm decently sure it will, but I'd find out for sure for myself before I bought anything. I think skylinesaustralia would be a good place to search that one up. The plug is easy to chop and swap if it doesn't plug in and that's the only issue.

Post by **sickness14** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:51 pm

Cjmartz2k wrote:I think I've got a couple sitting around yeah. It's probably worth finding out for sure the Neo PFC will read the signal from the Series I CAS though. I'm decently sure it will, but I'd find out for sure for myself before I bought anything. I think skylinesaustralia would be a good place to search that one up. The plug is easy to chop and swap if it doesn't plug in and that's the only issue.

Found this on SAU.

"yeah the CAS plug wiring between the two is different. the plastic covered one, the Hitachi one, is the late model R33/S1 and R34/C34 CAS. the metal silver case one, Mitsubishi, is off the older R33/S1 and R32's. The difference in the wiring is the plug pinout configuration is the opposite of the other. so say the black ones pinout is (4 3 2 1) than the silver one is (1 2 3 4). but we need to know what ecu and loom you used"

also found

"The CAS plug pinout is not the same on S1-2 as the R34 type needing the sensor wires swapped,the power and ground are the same."

"you need to swap the two triger wires around in the plug.. ie green/yellow green/red i think. the black ones earth the black/white is power" from here: http://www.skylinesaustralia.c...S+R34

someone was talking about taking apart both S1 and S2 CAS and switching the actual Peg with the key on the end to fit different cams, and keeping the sensor wiring the same and the same CAS. check it out: http://www.skylinesaustralia.c...S+R34

this guy is also talking about changing the "Peg" out: http://www.skylinesaustralia.c...S+R34

Modified by sickness14 at 8:10 PM 2/14/2010
Modified by sickness14 at 8:20 PM 2/14/2010

Post by **Cjmartz2k** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:15 pm

SAU wrote:http://www.skylinesaustralia.c...n+r33

http://www.skylinesaustralia.c....html

http://www.skylinesaustralia.c...2+cas

And the winner..........

http://www.skylinesaustralia.c...2+cas

Looks like you just have to switch around the two trigger wires on the loom for the CAS.

**Edit--$hit, you beat me

Post by **sickness14** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:18 pm

haha i beat you to it that time. we actually posted one of the same links. small world. lolz

found some interesting discussion to back your theory on the line bore idea chris, im going to get my money back.

"if you swap caps you will need to find a machine shop that can 'Line' bore your head""Even that won't save the day..there are no cam bearings per se in the heads...cams ride right in the alum head material..so if you try to bore out cam bearings to "align bore" the head..the oil clearance will be way too much and you'll have no oil pressure. If you lose cam bearing caps or even swap em around and screw 'em up...you're SOL! "

Exactly.

Post by **Cjmartz2k** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:29 pm

Sorry to be right on that one man. Think they will give you your money back? I'll start looking to see what the going rate for used HKS 264 cams is.

Post by **sickness14** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:32 pm

Cjmartz2k wrote:Sorry to be right on that one man. Think they will give you your money back? I'll start looking to see what the going rate for used HKS 264 cams is.

Oh paypal WILL give me my money back. i'll refuse delivery. It's going to happen, ive been through enough s*** and im not going to be screwed over again

Thanks! im def drooling over hks gears and cams. and that head casting and just need some dope springz

Post by **craz4240** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:00 am

I think to be honest your issue is that bottom end......what happens if you buy a new head and then you still end up SOL??

I say get a rb25 bottom end and put your neo head on it that should save you from frigging with CAS wiring for the PFC,finding cams for the stock rb25 head etc. Stock bottom end with ARP hardware should hold 500whp no problem...and if it doesn't well you obviously don't mind spending money on this then upgrade the internals. My opinion on what you should do is just that.

Post by **Coolwhip** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:29 am

john, we need to have your user name changed after this,

Post by **sickness14** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:30 am

No one makes aftermarket pistons that would ever work with a neo head.

I would still be spending more money bc id have to get a crank collar, arp hardware plus the price of the block.

Post by **sickness14** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:46 am

Nobody's going to buy my bottom end if I got another

I'm burnt out from this crap. No idea what to do now.

Post by **craz4240** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:44 am

Go back to basics man, so what you have now is what??

Built Neo head???

Built Neo Bottom end with rb26 crank,rods,and custom pistons??

So are you more likely to get this motor together with a regular rb25 head and your built bottom end?? An rb25 crank in your current setup??? or a replacement neo bottom end with your arp hardware swapped over???

If it was me I think I would buy an rb25 bottom end and swap the crank over if it seems feasable enough to do so. If not I would just use the stock 25 bottom end with all your arp hardware swapped over. Seems to me like it's becoming overly complicated when the answer is there it's just how much more headache and money do you want to spend.

If you do end up not using your built bottom end I'm sure you can recoup most of the money for the pistons etc.

Post by **Cjmartz2k** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:19 am

My vote is to put an untouched stock Neo bottom end in it and part out the rotating assembly you have now to try and get back some of your money (actually, I think you'll make some money). Like I said before and craz has repeated, the bottom end is the problem more than likely, so go with a known, good working bottom end and call it a day. The neo guts will support 500rwhp for sure with a good tune. I'm sure more actually.

Post by **sickness14** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:45 am

Sounds like a plan. Do I still need the crank collar fix?

Cjmartz2k wrote:My vote is to put an untouched stock Neo bottom end in it and part out the rotating assembly you have now to try and get back some of your money (actually, I think you'll make some money). Like I said before and craz has repeated, the bottom end is the problem more than likely, so go with a known, good working bottom end and call it a day. The neo guts will support 500rwhp for sure with a good tune. I'm sure more actually.

Post by **Cjmartz2k** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:24 pm

That's a matter of opinion. I think most will say yes. I think the "problem" is very over stated and has been since the first person noticed Nissan changed the crank design. People weren't spinning oil pump drives left and right before that, and I've never personally seen one spun. I have seen RB26's with spun bearings due to crappy oil pan design though. Never an RB20/25. I'm sure somebody could find an example on the internetz though if they tried.

If you already had it all apart I'd do it, but I wouldn't take the motor apart to do it. That's just me though. What kind of oil pump BTW?

Post by **sickness14** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:27 pm

N1 oil pump.

Post by **sickness14** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:51 pm

Cjmartz2k wrote:My vote is to put an untouched stock Neo bottom end in it and part out the rotating assembly you have now to try and get back some of your money (actually, I think you'll make some money). Like I said before and craz has repeated, the bottom end is the problem more than likely, so go with a known, good working bottom end and call it a day. The neo guts will support 500rwhp for sure with a good tune. I'm sure more actually.

This is what i'll do. I can get the Rawbrokerage crank collar shipped with the neo bottom end and that way i can use my N1 pump. i dont think i'll mess with switching ARP hardware on this new bottom end. I just need a car running at this point. My daily driver RX7 is dying. the oil control rings went out and now its a rolling smoke machine.

Post by **craz4240** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:50 am

Good idea......I see your breathing is much calmer now lol

Post by **boosted98gst** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:57 am

I just wanted to say, wow you have gone through some much crap! I def give you props for not giving up and calling it a day. Many of us would of thrown the towel by now, and would of parted out what we did have to try to make up for the loss. I know for a fact that this jdm engine place near dayton ohio had a neo engine they was parting out, this was a few months ago but they still had it last time I logged on. Not many people around here have neo engines . If I remember correctly the engine had low compression , im not sure if you can use anything off the motor but id figure I would say something.

Post by **boosted98gst** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:58 pm

Ok found more info about the neo engine, its a complete drop out with tranny/ harness/ecu/ head is in good shape, 1 cly has low compression the shop wanted 1500 for everything which is a deal including the tranny, you can get it for less because its been for sale for months. the shop is zerolift http://www.zerolift.com here is the number hope this helps. He also stated he would sell it in peices

513-874-2508

Fix Thread turned into Re-build thread! (built rb25 neo)

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