FIRST BUYER ON THE HEADERS!!!!

[cartersaltima]

Did someone say $300 for a four banger headeR? Geez I thought $200 for the Sentra was bad enough. Haha. Hope it's worth the 5-10 hp gain if that and the rasp/drone. I had to take mine off, it was just annoying! Plus I lost any semblance of starting low end grunt.

Modified by CoupeVQ35CVT at 1:36 PM 7/20/2009

not to be a di** but why the 3.5'ers always bringing the 2.5's down im tired of that bs. Eh anyway on a better note, cant wait to see the headers installed, ordering mine in sept hopefully

[JDRosenberg07]

Did someone say $300 for a four banger headeR? Geez I thought $200 for the Sentra was bad enough. Haha. Hope it's worth the 5-10 hp gain if that and the rasp/drone. I had to take mine off, it was just annoying! Plus I lost any semblance of starting low end grunt.

Modified by CoupeVQ35CVT at 1:36 PM 7/20/2009

I think $350 for headers isn't bad at all esp with stillend quality products.. I've seen headers for other applications for double and even triple the price.. I was expectin these to come out around $500 so I'm more than happy with the price.. And I wouldn't even complain at $200... Power comes at a price.. It's all about how much you're willing to pay.

[DaCoupe]

ESP when are you going to pick them up?

[ESP]

ESP when are you going to pick them up?

CALM YOURSELF, BOY!!! Still no guarantees I'm going to be able to pick them up for ya. If I do, it won't be until mid-December and even then I won't be back in Canada until after x-mas. Honestly, for all the waiting you'll have to endure, is it worth it to not have to pay UPS their ridonkulous "brokerage fees"? That being said, you could always get Stillen to ship it to you via another carrier (TST-Overland, etc) and do all the brokerage paperwork yourself. It won't cost you anything (except for the duty, but you can't get away from that...NAFTA what? ) but you'll have it alot sooner. Either way, I'll keep you posted on what my plans are!

[CoupeVQ35CVT]

not to be a di** but why the 3.5'ers always bringing the 2.5's down im tired of that bs. Eh anyway on a better note, cant wait to see the headers installed, ordering mine in sept hopefully

not to be a di** but why the 3.5'ers always bringing the 2.5's down im tired of that bs. Eh anyway on a better note, cant wait to see the headers installed, ordering mine in sept hopefully

Easy now tiger. Just pointing out why I got rid of mine, and it was $99. Of course we're talking QG18 not QR25 for my car. Also, the CEL never resolved, and sometimes in cold humid weather it would turn off, but I wasn't going to screw with emissions. But I just didn't find the loss of low end and constant rasp and drone worth the whatever minor gains there were to be had.

I know for the QR crowd the header also had the benefit of getting rid of the engine killing precat.

[2008AltiCoupeDan]

the precat prob isnt a prob anymore on the 07' +

i got my tracking number today should b here friday crappy tht i cant put it in yet since i'll b out of town- so my sound clips and writeups will be monday

[ESP]

But I just didn't find the loss of low end and constant rasp and drone worth the whatever minor gains there were to be had.

I find it odd how the Sentra SERs and SpecVs always seem to sound like crap, whereas I haven't yet heard a QR-driven Altima sound nearly that bad. I heard a SpecV without it's muffler and it's raspy as all hell, and yet I'm running straight pipes on my coupe and it's deep 'n boomy...

I guess it's similar to how Gs sound different than ACs...

[CoupeVQ35CVT]

True. But the other day on youtube I heard what I can only describe as an Altima 2.5 with the worst I mean worst fart can job. Ever. It literally sounded like a fart for the first second when the guy revved it. It was horrible. But then again most 2.5's and 4 bangers sound bad without a resonator to control the rasp.

Yet somehow I always hear the best sound coming from Ford Rangers and Toyota Tacoma 4 cylinders. There's something I'm missing.

As for Spec V's etc, I've heard a FEW exhaust systems that do not involve fart cans that sound really good. I believe one of them had an Apexi or something.

And yeah G's and A/C have different exhaust setups. I would imagine the header setup would have something to do with it as well (one's got a transverse mounted engine, the other is facing inline for rwd).

[ESP]

True. But the other day on youtube I heard what I can only describe as an Altima 2.5 with the worst I mean worst fart can job. Ever. It literally sounded like a fart for the first second when the guy revved it. It was horrible. But then again most 2.5's and 4 bangers sound bad without a resonator to control the rasp.

I think I know the one you're talking about...it's got the Magnaflow setup, yes?I definitely agree about the removal of resonators...never sounds good on a four-popper...

Quote »Yet somehow I always hear the best sound coming from Ford Rangers and Toyota Tacoma 4 cylinders. There's something I'm missing.[/quote]

I'll upload a video of my straight pipes...interested to know what your opinion is. Better yet, watch JDRosenberg's vids of his Artisan cat-back on his 2.5 as it's pretty similar.

[dldjros69]

the precat prob isnt a prob anymore on the 07' +

i got my tracking number today should b here friday crappy tht i cant put it in yet since i'll b out of town- so my sound clips and writeups will be monday

I got my tracking number today!!!

It will be here friday, and installed by 5pm. Then dinner and the write up.

Are we going to lose torque due to the header?

[Blackmobile]

you're going to eat dinner BEFORE you do the write up??

j/k eager to see how it all goes

[DaCoupe]

I got my tracking number today!!!

It will be here friday, and installed by 5pm. Then dinner and the write up.

Are we going to lose torque due to the header?

and make a video so i can hear the difference in sound

[dldjros69]

you're going to eat dinner BEFORE you do the write up??

j/k eager to see how it all goes

Well i spoke with the gf and she is telling her family that we cannot go to dinner til the installation is complete. I get out of work at 230, deliveries usually get to my house at about 5pm. My parents house is 30 mins north of me.

Also i just got off the fone with Kendal and chuck at stillen. At this point the instillation instructions are not complete. They should be ready towards the end of the week. my dad is gonna give me so much shiit if we have to wing this installation.

and make a video so i can hear the difference in sound

good thing my gf has a pink casio youtube digital camera. ill be taking pics and movies...

[JDRosenberg07]

I got my tracking number today!!!

It will be here friday, and installed by 5pm. Then dinner and the write up.

Are we going to lose torque due to the header?

God I hope not... Josh or Kyle can you guys chime in on the torque question??

Can you make some before and after vids in and out of that cabin so we can get a feel of how much louder it will be?

I'll upload a video of my straight pipes...interested to know what your opinion is. Better yet, watch JDRosenberg's vids of his Artisan cat-back on his 2.5 as it's pretty similar.

ESP you should make a drive by and take off vid..

[DaCoupe]

yea esp do that and +1 for the before after vids when u get the headers

[CoupeVQ35CVT]

I think I know the one you're talking about...it's got the Magnaflow setup, yes?I definitely agree about the removal of resonators...never sounds good on a four-popper...



I'll upload a video of my straight pipes...interested to know what your opinion is. Better yet, watch JDRosenberg's vids of his Artisan cat-back on his 2.5 as it's pretty similar.

Yup it's this video with the fartastic sound clip. I think in another clip it doesn't sound so bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...zCkmI

And I actually have watched that 2.5 w/ Artisan straight pipe clip before. It sounds OK under load. Almost borderline low bassy fart, but doable and then at higher revs it is good. I have heard a few great aggressive sounding Magnaflow setups on 2.5s using one non-fart can muffler. Mean as hell.

[ESP]

ESP you should make a drive by and take off vid..

BWAHAHAHAHA!!! Totally deserved dude!

[crayzitalian3]

mine will be here on friday too so when i get them installed i'll do a before and after with a stock setup with just an intake and pulley

lol that's if you guys care

[JDRosenberg07]

And I actually have watched that 2.5 w/ Artisan straight pipe clip before. It sounds OK under load. Almost borderline low bassy fart, but doable and then at higher revs it is good. I have heard a few great aggressive sounding Magnaflow setups on 2.5s using one non-fart can muffler. Mean as hell.

Low bassy fart?? It doesn't even sound close to a fart.. It is by far the best sounding exhaust I have ever heard on a four banger and I'm not just sayin that cause it's mine.. I hear cars all the time with their little fart cannons.. This isn't even close.... The camera I took the vid on isn't primarily a video camera so the sound quality is sub par... The artisan system has a very deep growl to it... Not a fart

[Throckmorton]

Yeah, I lost all my torque too (which sucks since the QR was built for torque!). I can, however, chirp my tires going into 2nd gear like never before! It pulls alot harder in the higher rpms, hey?On your road trip, what rpms were you hovering at? I find that if I keep it between 2200 and 3000 it's not much louder than stock (provided I'm easy on the pedal, anyway).

Your results are typical. Torque is lost when the factory exhaust manifold is replaced with an aftermarket header. Why is torque lost? Because the header is manufactured with the goal of making more peak HP at maximum RPM. Aftermarket manufactures would have a hard time selling a header than made more torque, because most people only understand the phrase, 'Horsepower Sells!'

Here is what Stillen has to say about their header. From their website:

These highly anticipated headers for 2.5 liter Nissan Altima Coupes and Sedans are ready for release after months of testing and development. The goal for these headers was simple. Easy, bolt-on installation, good horsepower gains, and no check engine lights. The STILLEN engineer’s were able to meet these goals and then some.

These headers are a very easy installation only requiring a simple modification to the B-pipes and extending the O2 sensor wires. Testing on a QR25 engine proved gains in excess of 10 wheel horsepower. A secondary slip joint is included with the kit which installs in the rear section of the factory secondary pipes and prevents any SES lights. Additional benefits are a nicely improved exhaust tone and improved looks underneath the hood.

I don't see any mention of more torque in their description. Why not? Because they made the header with the intent to make more horsepower. The header does produce more peak HP, but at a trade off. That trade off is less low end torque. Yes, the same low end torque that you say "which sucks" because your car does not accelerate as swiftly until you move further up in the powerband.

Google 'Torque versus Horsepower' for a better understanding of how the relationship is connected.

Check out this link, as it explains very well what I am refering to.

Dispelling the backpressure myth: http://www.j-body.org/faq//142/

Here are some highlights of this article.

1. Now, I'm I'm no expert on that math, but it would be near impossible to design a pipe that can meet idle, cruise, and at 6000rpm's. The smaller pipes give better low-end performance, because they can keep the exhaust speeds up at lower rpm's, but in the upper ends, they choke because the pipe pressurizess itself and can't flow enough, and you get back-pressure.

2. The bigger pipes flow well at higher RPM's, but, at the lower ones, there's too much area in the pipe, the exhaust loses pressure filling the pipe, and thus loses energy (it's got to push all the gasses in the pipe ahead of it), the exhaust speed slows down, it's not going to "draw" as much of the exhaust gases out the the combustion chamber--either some "stay" in the combustion chamber, and thus less air/fuel can get in, or restrictive elements in the exhaust *will* cause back-pressure, and the engine will be working against itself.

3. The best way to demonstrate this is to get a bunch of straws. Blow through one causing the air to flow out of it as fast as you can make it. Then try two, three, and so on. There will come a point where there's no more added resistance to you blowing into one more straw, but the speed of the air slows down. This is what happens, except your car reaches that point *somewhere* in the RPM range--unless you're using a ridiculously small--or ridiculously large pipe.

So, as you see, even though yes, a large pipe will kill your low-end power, it's not back-pressure.

Most stock cars have a restricted exhaust, because they are good to go around cruising speed--where the manufacture expects the engine will be most of the time. If you spend little time at the lower ends of the RPM range, larger pipes will work for you, giving you better flow characteristics at the higher ends. AutoX and road racing will most likely want something that flows well in the mid-range RPMs to handle changes in engine speed.

Food for thought from ole' Leonard.

Make your choice. Spend your money. Have fun.

[CoupeVQ35CVT]

Low bassy fart?? It doesn't even sound close to a fart.. It is by far the best sounding exhaust I have ever heard on a four banger and I'm not just sayin that cause it's mine.. I hear cars all the time with their little fart cannons.. This isn't even close.... The camera I took the vid on isn't primarily a video camera so the sound quality is sub par... The artisan system has a very deep growl to it... Not a fart

Haha. Shields down Cmdr Worf.

I've heard the Artisan on 3.5s and it's sure one nice system. On the 2.5s however it still retains that growl along with a certain almost fart like quality, again only under certain conditions such as revving up from low rpms. I'm not talking about the low bass alone, or a hi pitch prrrrt. At least that's what it sounds to me, and I can't describe it quite well with words. But like I said it's good, better than most common fart can setups.

Edit: Throck, good explanation. I never understood why "back-pressure" would help a 4 stroke engine. From your post, I gather the exhaust flowing in the pipe itself helps to "suck out" the exhaust that is just coming out of the combustion chamber, and faster moving gases will do that better when the engine is at lower revs, therefore improving performance at that end.

Cool.
Modified by CoupeVQ35CVT at 7:33 PM 7/22/2009

[dldjros69]

So Lenny < lol do people call you lenny?

So with the loss of tq and the gain of hp is the sum of the 2 parts better or worse for the over all car?

[cartersaltima]

. Im done with your pessimistic comments. why dont you just wait until we hear a sound clip from the new part before you judge the part or sound?... just a thought.
Modified by cartersaltima at 1:31 PM 7/22/2009

[JDRosenberg07]

so here's what I'm thinkin about for ESP, myself and anyone else who lost low end tq from puttin on an aftermarket exhaust that may have been too open.

Right now we don't have an effective "vacuum" effect at low rpms but we do at higher rpms for obvious reasons. So now the exhaust gasses are restricted now at the header instead of the exhaust pipe itself. So now wouldn't adding a high flow header help regain some of the vacuum we lost and therefore restore some low end power? Since it would flow into the pipe much easier now?

That's my logic and I'm not sure if it makes any sense to anyone else but it makes sense to me. I mean when you add an intake or headers or exhaust alone they dont do much by themselves but when you combine them all you recieve greater gains.

That's kinda why I was hoping for Kyle or josh to chime on since they are the experts and they have done dyno testing with the headers so they would know what happens to the torque with the headers.

[JDRosenberg07]

. Im done with your pessimistic comments. why dont you just wait until we hear a sound clip from the new part before you judge the part or sound?... just a thought.

This is a 2.5 thread anyway. And don't be mad cause my artisan sounds 10 times better than your cheapo eBay exhaust. Your just trying to find something negative to say about other peoples setups and systems to make yourself feel better about your own sad little life.. I'm tired of the pointless negative comments that have nothing to do with you. Let us 2.5ers have our fun with our headers and quit raining on our parade. Out of all your posts you have had nothing positive to say about anything. If you have nothing positive to say then keep it to yourself. Cause no one wants to hear it

[CoupeVQ35CVT]

This is a 2.5 thread anyway. And don't be mad cause my artisan sounds 10 times better than your cheapo eBay exhaust. Your just trying to find something negative to say about other peoples setups and systems to make yourself feel better about your own sad little life.. I'm tired of the pointless negative comments that have nothing to do with you. Let us 2.5ers have our fun with our headers and quit raining on our parade. Out of all your posts you have had nothing positive to say about anything. If you have nothing positive to say then keep it to yourself. Cause no one wants to hear it

ROFL. WTF is wrong with you angry little kids nowadays? Reread everything I've said maybe you'll see I'm not trying to find something wrong or putting 2.5s down. If you cannot stand to hear another differing opinion, however, then that's your problem not mine.

First off you know nothing about me. You sound like you may have some self esteem issues that you're perhaps projecting on me, about me feeling better by putting 2.5er's down. What!!??

And thank you very much, I am very satisfied with my Ebay setup that cost less than a third of most brand names, and thoroughly enjoying it. Just as your QR25 sounds great to you.

I enjoy Nissan products in all their flavors as much as the next Joe Schmoe on NICO. I DROVE a 2.5 Sedan for over a year and thought it was the coolest car I ever had at that point in life. I feel very lucky and blessed to be owning a 3.5 now 4 years later. So please, take your "stop putting me down" "sad life" rhetoric elsewhere. You seem too smart for that kinda flame war anyway.

Why can't weee be friends? Why can't weeeeee be friends?



Anyway I was saying how I didn't like the rasp and CEL light that came with the header on my slow QG18 Sentra, so I just had it removed last weekend. It sounds much more civil and according to my bro who's been driving it a lot lately, it's got it's groove back! (Low end grunt it seems!)
Modified by CoupeVQ35CVT at 10:43 PM 7/22/2009

[Throckmorton]

So Lenny < lol do people call you lenny?

So with the loss of tq and the gain of hp is the sum of the 2 parts better or worse for the over all car?

Yes, call me Lenny.

Only you can make that decision.

If you drive your car every day as if you are auditioning for the lead role in the next The Fast and the Furious movie, I would say go for it.

If you drive your car every day like you are the newest star of The Worlds Wildest Police Chases, by all means go for it.

In other words, if you operate your car at high rpm's and high speeds, almost every day, the installation of a header might be your best bet.

Just remember that Sir Isaac Newton proved that you can not 'bend' the laws of physics. Every action causes a reaction.

Just make sure that the 'action' you do to your car results in the 'reaction' you hoped for.

I hope this helps you.

Leonard T.

[dldjros69]

Well i pulled the trigger a week ago, so my header will be here tomorrow.

Yes i drive like an ahole all the time for the most part. Probably just under the line of beating the car.

I would say most of my driving would be highways with stop lights. I guess that is called a thru way?

I have a 6mt though, i rip thru the gears like a mofo as it is.

Well ill have to give my impressions after i install it tomorrow.

I have that pocket dyno thing, but im to much of a vagina to blow it up and get a real quarte rmile run in on a real street/stop light.

Before people get their panties in a bunch, i know the perfect street, that is 55 mph and you can see everything in front of you for more than a quarter mile.

[CoupeVQ35CVT]

Ohh that would be most interesting dude. I want to see before and after performance #s with and without the new header, especially since you sound like a guy who runs through engines like T-shirts.

[cartersaltima]

god its people like him that make me want to leave this forum, and apparently i'm a kid? wow. okay there buddy, i wonder if ebay will come out with a header now, maybe that will keep you quiet . anyway... How many people have ordered the header from stillen? did stillen sell out of all 50 parts?