Just a thought I had.
Electric Water Pumps. Your thoughts
Electric Water Pumps. Your thoughts
A popular mod that I see around the these forums is switching to electrical fans in order to free up some horsepower. How about installing electrical water pumps? They have been around for a while from what I can tell, but most if not all of the applications are for fords and chevys. I searched the internet and found a couple websites that manufacture these EWPs, and I found this one to be very informative: http://www.thinkauto.com/waterpumps.htm It lists the benefits of using electrical water pumps and they seem to be a valid arguments. Also, I think their line of pumps are universal and can be made to work on our cars given that there is enough space inthe engine bay.
Just a thought I had.
Just a thought I had.
Thats an interesting question. It does seem like offloading that mechanical drain would give similar benefits, (power wise) to switching to electric vs. mechanical fan. I would guess it would be pretty costly as it would require hooking into the computer to monitor engine speed/temperature so that the pump could run faster/slower as needed.
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Mayhem_J30
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moses wrote:Thats an interesting question. It does seem like offloading that mechanical drain would give similar benefits, (power wise) to switching to electric vs. mechanical fan. I would guess it would be pretty costly as it would require hooking into the computer to monitor engine speed/temperature so that the pump could run faster/slower as needed.
monitoring engine speed and temp might not be that bad. if the pump is already pump to run at a certain speed when compared to a voltage map. You can hook up to the coolant temp sensor and your speedo on the rear. They give out voltages. aIf the pump had a map to run at a certain rate based on the voltages then you're set. I know some electrical engineers that could come up with a simple circuit board that could do something similar to that. that board would determine the correct current to send to the pump.
You coule potentially make a lot of money off this idea Mayhem.I say go for it!Mayhem_J30 wrote:monitoring engine speed and temp might not be that bad. if the pump is already pump to run at a certain speed when compared to a voltage map. You can hook up to the coolant temp sensor and your speedo on the rear. They give out voltages. aIf the pump had a map to run at a certain rate based on the voltages then you're set. I know some electrical engineers that could come up with a simple circuit board that could do something similar to that. that board would determine the correct current to send to the pump.
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piratepete
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Mayhem_J30
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Aries wrote:You coule potentially make a lot of money off this idea Mayhem.I say go for it!
Two things1) the board would be ugly, but would probably work.2) I would need to know what currents would need to be sent to the pump and when.
BTW, does the pump need to run off the engine speed? or just temp? seems like if it was to kick in any time besides temp would be WOT. I don't remember the cooling specs and rules.
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Scott McLellan
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Scott McLellan wrote:Don't those electric water pumps have a pretty short life (like 30K or something)? and with electric fans, electric waterpump, ect. wouldn't that work the alternator way more than it was intended shortening its life, too?
I didn't even think of that.I didn't think that this would be such a complicated issue.
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piratepete
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[quote=" Mayhem_J30 BTW, does the pump need to run off the engine speed? or just temp? seems like if it was to kick in any time besides temp would be WOT. I don't remember the cooling specs and rules. [/quote]
It would actually be BETTER to have it adjusting itself according to temperature. A mechanical water pump really seems to do the opposite of what is best for the engine. After running an engine hard and heating it up, if you let it idle, the pump slows also, therefore not circulating the water when the engine is hottest and needs it most! And conversely when it draws away power under acceleration (and constantly) when the engine may not even be hot yet.
It would actually be BETTER to have it adjusting itself according to temperature. A mechanical water pump really seems to do the opposite of what is best for the engine. After running an engine hard and heating it up, if you let it idle, the pump slows also, therefore not circulating the water when the engine is hottest and needs it most! And conversely when it draws away power under acceleration (and constantly) when the engine may not even be hot yet.
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Mayhem_J30
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True. And if you could go with an electric water pump you would also have to swap in electric fan(s) I think.Two concerns I would have with electric vs mechanical would be:1) Lifespan of pump would be shorter2) Potential failure of pump Issue with #2 is when a mech. pump fails (or starts to) you definately KNOW it. Electric would need to do something to force you to stop driving if it failed.
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Mayhem_J30
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moses wrote:2) Potential failure of pump Issue with #2 is when a mech. pump fails (or starts to) you definately KNOW it. Electric would need to do something to force you to stop driving if it failed.
the exact reason I would recommend installing an accurate aftermarket coolant temp gauge and ignoring the one in the dash
I've done a little research on that and I've been told that those water pumps do free up alot of power but are really only good for the quarter mile. Because of the fact that the flow doesnt change. If someone could find a way to change the flow as the engines go faster then I think It'll work. How I would make it work is I would tap into the tach and have that hooked up to a relay that would change the power output to the electric motor so as the speed off the engine increases the power to the motor will increse. That sounds like a good idea better get that pantented before edelbrock takes it or something.
I have an Electric waterpump in my TA because my stocker was on its way out. Supposedly freed up 8 hp, but I didn't feel but I didn't take it to a dyno after.
The best part of it is that now if/when I have to change that pump in the future, it will take 20 minutes to do instead of like 2 hours for the stock replacement.
You'd almost have to see the engine bay to know what I'm talkin about.
The best part of it is that now if/when I have to change that pump in the future, it will take 20 minutes to do instead of like 2 hours for the stock replacement.
You'd almost have to see the engine bay to know what I'm talkin about.
lbrowne, 1) How long have you had your water pump and/or how many miles do you have on it? 2) Has it given you any problems? 3) What brand of pump do you use?4) Would you recommend such a conversion from mech. to electric? I'm starting to wonder if the issues of cost and controlling the speed of the pump outweigh the benefits of freeing up some hp. What do you guys think? Would you do it?
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180crafter
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The summit catalog has a pump for the SR20. It is made by this company--- http://www.meziere.com/
S13Owner heres my answers: 
1. installed it in the beginning of the summer last year, couple of thousand miles on it. (my car does not roam the streets in the winter)
2. No problems, it infact has helped my car run cooler.
3. I used a CSI, I looked at the meziere as well.
4. I would recommend it to those with LT1 Camaros and Trans Ams, because it severely decreases the time of a re-install should that one fail, plus it frees up a few ponies. I haven' looked for an application for the Nissan, but I haven't had that car for a month yet
Just because its electrical doesn't mean you have to be scared of failure. They have to put some sort of limit on it because any sort of improper install, wiring anything, could really shorten the life of the pump. I've heard of these pumps lasting for years, ones that failed quickly...but I've heard the same for stock ones as well.
But I'm happy with it thus far, I can not control the speed of the pump, however i will be wiring a lamp into the cabin of the car to indicate when the pump is running.
hope this helps.
lbrowne
1. installed it in the beginning of the summer last year, couple of thousand miles on it. (my car does not roam the streets in the winter)
2. No problems, it infact has helped my car run cooler.
3. I used a CSI, I looked at the meziere as well.
4. I would recommend it to those with LT1 Camaros and Trans Ams, because it severely decreases the time of a re-install should that one fail, plus it frees up a few ponies. I haven' looked for an application for the Nissan, but I haven't had that car for a month yet
Just because its electrical doesn't mean you have to be scared of failure. They have to put some sort of limit on it because any sort of improper install, wiring anything, could really shorten the life of the pump. I've heard of these pumps lasting for years, ones that failed quickly...but I've heard the same for stock ones as well.
But I'm happy with it thus far, I can not control the speed of the pump, however i will be wiring a lamp into the cabin of the car to indicate when the pump is running.
hope this helps.
lbrowne
lbrowne wrote:S13Owner heres my answers:
1. installed it in the beginning of the summer last year, couple of thousand miles on it. (my car does not roam the streets in the winter)
2. No problems, it infact has helped my car run cooler.
3. I used a CSI, I looked at the meziere as well.
4. I would recommend it to those with LT1 Camaros and Trans Ams, because it severely decreases the time of a re-install should that one fail, plus it frees up a few ponies. I haven' looked for an application for the Nissan, but I haven't had that car for a month yet
Just because its electrical doesn't mean you have to be scared of failure. They have to put some sort of limit on it because any sort of improper install, wiring anything, could really shorten the life of the pump. I've heard of these pumps lasting for years, ones that failed quickly...but I've heard the same for stock ones as well.
But I'm happy with it thus far, I can not control the speed of the pump, however i will be wiring a lamp into the cabin of the car to indicate when the pump is running.
hope this helps.
lbrowne
Do you know what kind of temp. you run when your stuck in traffic. On my malibu I put on of those turbo flex fans without a clutch and a electric fan on the inside of the radiator and that keeps it at 210 on the hottest day in chicago stuck in traffic. I wanted to take out the flex fan and just leave the electric one and put that electric pump on to free up some power. But I'm getting mixed replies about those some good and some bad.
wanted to throw one more reply in- a company out in australia makes a temperature-controlled electric water pump- i think it's pretty nifty, but the "Motor Life" spec makes me a bit wary... 2000 hours continuous doesn't sound like a whole lot.
anyway, you can check it out for yourselves here:http://www.daviescraig.com.au/newproduct.html
anyway, you can check it out for yourselves here:http://www.daviescraig.com.au/newproduct.html
hey guyz i just had one question for u all here goes. what the problem with the water pump running close to full speed all the time when ur car in on??? the odly thing i could see as a problem is motor messing up due to long runs. one thing u could do if u have a engineer buddies is to make a switch that u could change the pump speed manualy like a 1-5 hi lo thing. then u could have it on med while driveing regualar and on high when u race. i could be just stupid with my ideas so tell me what u guyz think
_dk wrote:wanted to throw one more reply in- a company out in australia makes a temperature-controlled electric water pump- i think it's pretty nifty, but the "Motor Life" spec makes me a bit wary... 2000 hours continuous doesn't sound like a whole lot.
hmm, 2000 hours not a lot? if you drove your car for 2 hours everyday that would give you about 2 1/2 - 3 years, not bad considering when it does go it will take 20 min. to replace, saving you time/money.