EFR 7064, It's here!

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EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby float_6969 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:38 pm

What's this? ;)
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That's an awfully big hair dryer...
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Helloooo Borg Warner EFR 7064 w/the 1.05AR T4 flanged twin scroll turbine housing
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Baby-sized turbo
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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby themadscientist » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:24 pm

Make sure there's no popcorn in the compressor housing! Buttery FOD is no good.

Is that going to bolt to the T4 flange?

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby Izento » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:00 am

Holy mother of anti-surge!

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby tommey » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:20 am

Congratulations!
Can't wait to see this thing rip your gearbox apart!

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby float_6969 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:36 am

themadscientist wrote:Make sure there's no popcorn in the compressor housing! Buttery FOD is no good.

Is that going to bolt to the T4 flange?
Right after that pic, she did dump some right in the turbine housing LOL!!! I love that kid. She's like, "Oh look you gave me a thing to put popcorn in, thanks Dad! DUMP!"

Yea, it should bolt right up to the HKS manifold. I'll have to clock the turbine housing 180°, but clocking the housings on this turbo is easy.
Izento wrote:Holy mother of anti-surge!
I know! It's also where the integrated recirculation valve returns the air back to the inlet of the turbo. I'm excited to get it up and running!
tommey wrote:Congratulations!
Can't wait to see this thing rip your gearbox apart!
LOL! I'm a bit worried about that. We'll see how it does, but I suspect a Z32 gear box and adapter flange isn't a long way away for me. I'm hoping the short diff gearing will help alleviate some of the stress on the stock gear box, but I think the short gearing is going to become a detriment at this power level and will have to be changed as well.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby Izento » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:21 pm

I guess at this point your gear box breaking is a matter of if you drift or not, lol. Grippy tires will probably kill this thing. My tires are at like 45 psi, 215/45/17.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby themadscientist » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:50 pm

float_6969 wrote: Right after that pic, she did dump some right in the turbine housing LOL!!! I love that kid. She's like, "Oh look you gave me a thing to put popcorn in, thanks Dad! DUMP!"
I still think like a kid I guess. I saw popcorn and went, "gonna dump it in that new turbo!" I suspect your kid's motivations are exceedingly more innocent than mine, though. My inner child is an ***hole.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby float_6969 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:21 pm

Izento wrote:I guess at this point your gear box breaking is a matter of if you drift or not, lol. Grippy tires will probably kill this thing. My tires are at like 45 psi, 215/45/17.
I'm not a drifter, so I'm hoping that will help it last longer. I have been known to partake in a stoplight race though, and I'm much more worried about that.
themadscientist wrote:I still think like a kid I guess. I saw popcorn and went, "gonna dump it in that new turbo!" I suspect your kid's motivations are exceedingly more innocent than mine, though. My inner child is an ***hole.
Kids are ***holes in general. The difference is they don't know their ***holes yet, LOL

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby themadscientist » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:35 am

dogbox....

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby Izento » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:08 am

If anything those stoplight races will cost you more than drifting. Drifters don't usually like traction unless we are in competition. Traction is what's gonna kill ya, haha. Yeah, a z32 box is in your near future! That's better than buying more boxes.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby tommey » Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:13 am

I can vouch for the z32 box.
You are right about the diff ratio, go stock!
I am running stock ratio diff and z32 box in both my s13 and s14.
You should also consider a brand new box, you won't have to worry about synchros or anything.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby float_6969 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:24 am

Dogbox is NOT an option. This is a street car before it's anything else. Plus I'd like my wife to be able to drive it, LOL.

The current transmission has MAYBE 10K miles on it since a fresh rebuild with all new gears, bearings and synchros. I'm hoping that will help with the life of it. That being said, I'm sure it will fail, and when it does, I'll probably cut the flange off and weld it onto a Z32 transmission that I'll have rebuilt. A lot of this is going to depend on how the turbo actually behaves once it's on the car. There is only so much you can do on paper, so I don't really know what kind of power I'll actually make and how it will come on. The old turbo was light a light switch. That kind of change in power can't be good on the drivetrain, so I'm hoping this will be a bit more linear in how the power comes on, but we'll see.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby boost_boy » Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:42 am

She's beautiful :) (Talking about the baby-girl...lol). Wow man, you like turbo lag, don't you. Nice blower, but that thing isn't going to start breaking tires free until at/around 5300rpm. It will be good for dynoing and flat-out producing power, but the CA isn't the biggest/baddest air pump on the planet, but it will pump it up eventually. It will be interesting to see how this thing works for you though and I'll know your stock gearbox will be fine, if it's in decent shape already. As for the baby-girl, mine is a 18 y/o freshman at the University of Florida and she costs waaay more than all my cars combined. And I have a 17 y/o that's not too cheap because he's an athlete and they are pretty expensive too. Cars are near irrelevant at this point and I get in where I fit in, so enjoy the cars while the baby is small because when she gets older, you'll have no choice but to Sh_ift :cool: . Keep us posted on your install, I can probably help with some of the lag you're going to encounter.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby float_6969 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:19 am

Do some research on that turbo Dee. They're friggin amazing. I'm about 90% sure I'll have full boost (28psi) by 4K RPM and will be making around 400hp by then, and even by 3K RPM, it should be making about 10psi. It'll be laggy, but not as laggy as you'd expect. At least that's what it says on paper, LOL!

Yea, I also have an 11 year old and I know how it goes when they get older, but I also know to enjoy what I have now because those damn kids never stay the same!

If it's too laggy, I'll definitely let you know and see if we can improve it.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby Buddyworm » Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:23 pm

I'm stoked to see your results with this!

You have any datalogging capabilities? Some before-after comparisons would be dooooope.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby dash » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:19 pm

I'd hope, that any "big turbo" had better be making waaayyy more than 400hp at 28psi :yesnod

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby louiswun » Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:11 am

Hi float, waiting for your result, please let us know !

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby float_6969 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:36 am

dash wrote:I'd hope, that any "big turbo" had better be making waaayyy more than 400hp at 28psi :yesnod
I'm expecting about 400HP @ 4K RPM @ 28psi, and 500+hp around 7K RPM. On paper, I'm near overspeed at 28psi and 8K RPM, but we'll have to see what it does.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby mdb4879 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:31 am

I don't think you'll make 400 at 4k. Maybe around 5-5.5k. 500whp seems doable at 7k. I'm not saying you won't have full boost at 4k, because I have no idea about that. But do you really think you make upwards of 500ft/lbs of torque at that power level? Regardless, if you can hold 400ft/lbs from 4k to 7k and have it taper off slightly to make power to 8k, this thing is going to be a monster, lol.

Dash, on these motors I'd say 400whp @ 28psi sounds about right. It seems like they'll make 200whp on 7psi with some mild cams and a good flowing turbo. So with his cams and head work 400whp shouldn't be an issue at double the MAP on E85.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby float_6969 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:43 pm

You may be right. On paper, that's what it will do, but there are a lot of estimates being made in the calculations, so my expectations aren't high. I was really only aiming for 400whp, so anything over that is just a bonus for me.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby mdb4879 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:57 pm

You should definitely hit that goal with ease. I just don't think you'll be making 525wtq at any rpm, lol. Not unless your motor just ends up flowing super well and chokes out the turbo by 5500rpm.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby boost_boy » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:47 pm

If you're planning on maxxing out the SDS, 32psi is what you can possibly squeeze out of the 3 bar map sensor. My turbo is smaller than yours and I got 535whp and 369lb/ft. (or something like that) @ 30psi and the engine in my coupe is not a fully built engine. You should be able to do really well with that turbocharger and 28psi of boost, granted the tuning is on par with what the CA likes. You should see 400whp in the ballpark of 18-20psi again, if tuning is on par with what your current setup likes. And lastly, don't let the paper lie to you. I truly do believe that with that size backhousing (1.06), you'd be luck if it wakes up around 5300 rpm. But please, put that puppy to use and let's see how it responds to your engine and mods as I would love to be wrong on this one.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby Buddyworm » Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:16 pm

400HP at 4000rpm might be a bit of a stretch, even with boost that high. I'll reserve judgement until we see results but I have my doubts that the engine is physically capable of moving the air necessary for 400hp at that RPM. With this engine I feel like the VE at that RPM would have to be so, so high in order to achieve that power output, like impossibly high even considering your build float. Consider that a more conventional CA build achieves 120%ish VE at peak power making 400ish hp...

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby dash » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:04 pm

exactly my thinking. Can't see much benefit in quick $pooling hi boo$t, when the motor can't "digest" it
Seems like the turbo is 'outrunning' the motor by far ?
A much lesser turbo (a precision 55 for eg) will hit say, a more suitable 15psi @ 4000... and still "shine" up top
Of course this is all hypothetical..... just thinkin out loud. We'll see

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby float_6969 » Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:56 am

I have a short day at work today, so once I get done, I'll take some pictures of the old turbo, unbolt it and the EWG from the manifold, and get them and the valve covers and timing covers all sent off. The exhaust manifold will get the same ceramic coating that the turbine housing has, and the valve covers and timing covers are getting powder coated. I hope to have those all back next week. That should be the last of the major pieces I need to do and I can finish assembly. I hope to be running by the end of the month.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby mdb4879 » Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:19 am

End of the month?! Wow, I didn't realize how little you had left. I can't wait for the "SHE LIVES!!!" thread, lol. Good luck with the build man, I hope everything goes smoothly for you from here on out.

Btw, are you planning the exhaust manifold extrude honed as well before you have it coated? And what are you having it coated with, Jet Hot?

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby float_6969 » Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:31 am

I could easily have it in the car and running by the end of the week if I wasn't getting the manifold coated and was in a hurry.

I considered having it extrude honed, but after a lot of research, I'm not sure its going to be worth it for me, so I decided to pass on it. The coating is by Cerakote. It's their 2000*F coating. Some people were saying that it holds the heat in the manifold so well that after only 5 min, the exhaust manifold was cool enough you could keep your hand on it. I also found some evidence that the heat retention increased spool by about 300rpm. Not a huge amount, but every little bit helps.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby blownhemi » Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:09 am

Why not the .92 A/R T4? I doubt it would've limited you in any way, but you could've gained a bit of spool. Placement issues with your weird manifold? Boost creep?

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby float_6969 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:25 am

Space constraints. Due to the manifold I'm using, it's already going to be a REALLY tight fit to get a 3" pipe between the turbo and the firewall. With the existing turbo it was already a tight fit, and the turbo I ended up with still moves the V-Band towards the firewall another 1/2" or so. The internal WG turbo's have the flange for the downpipe almost another 2" further back. It would have been impossible to fit that turbo on this manifold and connect a downpipe.

Speaking of, I don't have the manifold back yet, but it should be back next week sometime. I'm holding off on powdercoating the valve covers and upper timing cover for now too. I had some unexpected expenses come up (My cat had a urinary obstruction and almost died because he couldn't urinate), so my car budget is screwed up now. I also ended up doing some port work on the manifold before I sent it off which added an extra couple of days. There was some pretty bad casting flash on a couple of the runners and the inlet for the turbo flange was really badly choked off, so I opened that up.

Once I get the manifold back, I will still need to sort out the coolant lines for the oil cooler, and then I'm ready to assemble the rest of the engine, degree the cams, and put the damn thing back in the car and get it running. I REALLY want to drive it this year.

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Re: EFR 7064, It's here!

Postby float_6969 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:43 am

OK, so about that HKS manifold. I forgot it needed some port work until I pulled the old turbo off.

Here it is before I've done anything. The outlet matches the gasket almost perfectly, but if you look just to the inside, there is a weird lip just inside the port. I decided to fix that before I sent it off for ceramic coating.
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Flashing inside the port. I don't think I'm going to use the cometic exhaust gasket either. It doesn't seem to line up like the stock ones do.
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More flashing
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After blending the port
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This one shows how good the Borg Warner casting is too. I didn't end up needing to do any gasket matching on the manifold or the turbine housing.
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